I'm getting really sick of people bitching about our running backs

[Russ Smith]

I still think Brian Westbrook would look real good in Cardinal red. He surely isnt going back to Philly next year and he would fit nicely into this offense as a pass catcher and runner....

Sure but is he available now? If not, we're going to have to make do with what we have.

 

[Russ Smith]

Julis Jones was hurt- Larry Johnson was in the doghouse- Kevin Jones is still very average- Thomas Jones are you kidding??? Cedric Benson was drafted why- who else did you reference??? Running back is one of the few postions that a rookie can come in imediately and contribute if he has NFL talent-

I have no idea why the Bears took benson, personally I thought it was a bad pick they had bigger needs and Jones is doing just fine with a rookie QB and not much passing game to help him.

Julius had 5 carries for 16 yards in his first game and then got hurt, when he came back he was terrific, but running behind Adams and Allen is certainly a bit better than our current OL. the only RB on Dallas that didn't have a higher YPC average than Jones last year was Eddie George who was what 48 years old at the time?

Yes good RB's can and do produce right away, but not all of them, not by a longshot.

Saying Holmes was 3rd string implies that it had nothing to do with his ability at teh time. Do you really think if the Ravens knew he was that good they'd have let him get away?

Johnson was in the doghouse why? Could it have possibly had to do with the way he ran the ball not impressing the coach?

I guess my main issue with you as opposed to others like SWD or LV etc is that you came on here and posted a completely false stat about JJ fumbling what was it 18 times at Cal? And despite being repeatedly corrected, you insisted your mysterious friend goes to Cal and he knows for a fact JJ fumbled more than Cal says he did. I have a hard time not taking that into consideration when reading your evaluation of JJ now. Someone that implies the schoo's official stats are wrong by a factor of 3 kind of leaves me doubting them.

I've been here for years, if JJ falls flat on his face I'll grudgingly concede to SWD and LV and the others that they were right and i was wrong, if he plays well I'll bet they'll grudgingly do the same thing. If JJ turns out ok will you do that?

It's hard to make any comparisons on our RB's off preseason because the only guy who got carries with the first team against first teams was JJ. So far in the regular season Shipp has been better and here I am repeatedly saying, Shipp should start. But people wanting to dump JJ after 8 real carries is just a bit hard for me to fathom.

 

[earthsci]

Oh some research Clinton Portis 1508 rushing yards/15 td's 5.5 average
Ricky Williams first year 880 yrds-

If JJ gets over 600 yrds I will shave JJ in the side of my hair

You're on. If he doesn't, I'll reciprocate.

 

[clif]

You're on. If he doesn't, I'll reciprocate.

 

[BACH]

Clinton Portis?? enough said do research

Portis only started 12 games as a rookie... Shanahan didn't feel he was ready to start until the 5th game...

 

[JeffGollin]

What do you do when your 2 kids misbehave and point fingers at one another?

You crack their heads together.

I don't care who's doing it (or in this case, "not doing it.") It's up to our RB's and their blockers to get together and figure it out. Then there will be credit enough for everyone.

 

[Grand Canon]

Portis

Yeah and then he ran for ummm 1500 yards- He was behind a guy namd Davis or something like that right who helped them win that bowl game at the end of the year. Hmmm I guess he should have started right away right?

All I am saying is that you can see that JJ doesnt have what it takes.. that is clear unless you like koolaide- Great back can make people miss- its not all about speed - remember Leshon Johnson that guy was a shoot out of a canon and was super fast- had one good game in his career- Leeland McElroy, same thing- speed doesnt equal sucess... that is why Green was enamored with him to start- he played in a good system in college witness Kyle Boller.. and the many other Tetford prospects... any of them suceed in pros????

 

[clif]

Yeah and then he ran for ummm 1500 yards- He was behind a guy namd Davis or something like that right who helped them win that bowl game at the end of the year. Hmmm I guess he should have started right away right?

All I am saying is that you can see that JJ doesnt have what it takes.. that is clear unless you like koolaide- Great back can make people miss- its not all about speed - remember Leshon Johnson that guy was a shoot out of a canon and was super fast- had one good game in his career- Leeland McElroy, same thing- speed doesnt equal sucess... that is why Green was enamored with him to start- he played in a good system in college witness Kyle Boller.. and the many other Tetford prospects... any of them suceed in pros????

Give it a rest. Come back after at least game 8. If he is does not have at least 400 yards then we can talk about how he "doesnt have what it takes"

 

[jefftheshark]

All I am saying is that you can see that JJ doesnt have what it takes.. that is clear unless you like koolaide-

I have great concerns, but it is way too early for this comment. Last night McAllister had a whopping 47 yards rushing against the Giants (the only team Arrington has faced). Does McAllister also fail your "eye" test?

The Shark

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah and then he ran for ummm 1500 yards- He was behind a guy namd Davis or something like that right who helped them win that bowl game at the end of the year. Hmmm I guess he should have started right away right?

All I am saying is that you can see that JJ doesnt have what it takes.. that is clear unless you like koolaide- Great back can make people miss- its not all about speed - remember Leshon Johnson that guy was a shoot out of a canon and was super fast- had one good game in his career- Leeland McElroy, same thing- speed doesnt equal sucess... that is why Green was enamored with him to start- he played in a good system in college witness Kyle Boller.. and the many other Tetford prospects... any of them suceed in pros????

So you're saying the reason Portis didn't start the first 4 games was that Terrell Davis was in front of him?

Davis didn't play in 2002, the starting RB was Mike Anderson, then Portis. Anderson is a good solid RB, had one great year, then got hurt, very good player if he were a Card I'd bet he'd be starting right now. but once again we see a little lack of research on your part.

The irony on JJ is if you read some of the scouting reports on him before the combine they said he lacked top end speed, then he ran the fastest time at the 40 and suddenly everyone cited speed as his biggest asset. JJ is NOT Barry Sanders, he doesn't do a lot of juking and making people miss, he makes very small moves, he slides, he shakes tacklers, at least that's what he did in college. He hasn't done it yet in the NFL. He's not a sprinter he never has been he was 220 as a junior and the coaches told him to slim down as a senior to get quicker, that's where the lacks top end speed came from.


FYI did anybody notice that the Giants held Deuce McAllister to 47 yards rushing last night? It might just be that along with our OL not being very good, the Giants just might have a pretty good run defense?


Can anybody ever explain to me exactly what this great system is of Tedford's that allows him to make QB's look good and make RB's look good? Cal led the Pac 10 in rushing the last 2 years and does again this year. Apparently the system is broken though since Joseph Ayoob is completing only 46% of his passes so far. It's just amazing that the same system that made Rodgers so overrated also makes Arrington overrated. I mean Tedford must be the best coach in history to do that? Seriously we should fire Green and hire Tedford.

 

[Grand Canon]

McAllister has skill- but wont be great- thats all I'm saying- I would like to just say I like Shipp- and think that JJ is soft- thats it- doest have much shake to him either- we shall see- I'll leave it alone-

 

[Grand Canon]

Russ Calm down

Did you notice Lynch was hurt and the back up ran for 187 yards??

Tetfords system is amazing for college - dont ignore the obvious- Davis was still there in 02 didnt he retire after the preseason?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I guess my main issue with you as opposed to others like SWD or LV etc is that you came on here and posted a completely false stat about JJ fumbling what was it 18 times at Cal? And despite being repeatedly corrected, you insisted your mysterious friend goes to Cal and he knows for a fact JJ fumbled more than Cal says he did. I have a hard time not taking that into consideration when reading your evaluation of JJ now. Someone that implies the schoo's official stats are wrong by a factor of 3 kind of leaves me doubting them.

I've been here for years, if JJ falls flat on his face I'll grudgingly concede to SWD and LV and the others that they were right and i was wrong, if he plays well I'll bet they'll grudgingly do the same thing. If JJ turns out ok will you do that?

It's hard to make any comparisons on our RB's off preseason because the only guy who got carries with the first team against first teams was JJ. So far in the regular season Shipp has been better and here I am repeatedly saying, Shipp should start. But people wanting to dump JJ after 8 real carries is just a bit hard for me to fathom.

Russ, I am sure you know this, but I am not advocating in any way shape or from dumping JJ. I am hoping in time he gets it and/or the oline shapes up enough so that he doesnt feel swallowed hole as soon as he is handed the ball.

I adminttedly didnt see him much in college so I was just questioning hsi speed or more specifically his burst. A guy doesnt have to run a 4.3 40 and outrun the entire defense, but they do have to have that burst to get through that small hole and into the secondary. He doesnt seem to have that to me. Now granted it could be b/c he is very very unsure of what he is doing, or the fact that he is thinking too much and hasnt let his instincts take over.

I am on board with letting him return kicks. Think that is a great idea (not punts though) It will get him out on the field more and let us see what he can do with that speed of his.

 

[Russ Smith]

Did you notice Lynch was hurt and the back up ran for 187 yards??

Tetfords system is amazing for college - dont ignore the obvious- Davis was still there in 02 didnt he retire after the preseason?

Davis didn't play for Denver in 2002 so the fact that Portis didn't start the first 4 games had nothing to do with him.

Yes I noticed that Forsett had a big day, and O'Keith has too. Cal has a very good OL, of course they had 2 starters out that game and the starting C was playing injured too.

I happen to think Cal has some good RB's, and a good OL and a good scheme. What I'm disputing is the notion that it's the system that makes these guys look good. The same system that made nothing but easy reads for Rodgers is suddenly too complex for Ayoob, that's the reason everyone including Ayoob is giving for his slow start, doesn't understand the system yet. Rodgers didn't at that point either he didn't become the starter right away out of JC himself.

The same system that made Arrington look so good resulted in about 900 less yards for Echemandu the year before.

Forsett is a legit 4.4 40 guy he's faster than either Arrington or Lynch, he had a few big runs and will continue to be a good RB, he's too small to be an everydown NFL rb but he's very fast. When Lynch goes pro after his junior year Forsett will probably go well over 1000 yards himself.Lynch is better than Arrington, I said that last year too. But that's not because I think JJ is overrated it's because I think Lynch is the 2nd best RB in college behind Adrian Peterson. I said on draft day I thought we took JJ a little high, but we had no choice we had to get a RB and he wasn't going to be there the next pick so we took him.

The Mercury News had a comment the other day in a story where the guy said the irony of the whole Tedford robotic QB stuff is that Cal is actually significantly better at recruiting RB's under Tedford than QB's, they can't get the elite HS QB to go to Cal they go to USC(Sanchez) or Miami(Kyle Wright) they don't go to Cal. But Cal has been very good at recruiting RB's, Lynch was rated #2 in the country by some services and Forsett was highly regarded too, Forsett gained over 5000 yards in his 2 seasons playing football in Texas after moving from Florida, he was a sprinter in HS, if he wasn't 5'8" 180 he would be higher regarded he's not just some walkon Cal put in there.

O'Keith was a sprinter in HS too and Cal's bio page said he ran a 4.42 40.O'Keith was a top 5 RB in Socal as a junior but hurt his knee and thus wasn't recruited as much as a senior. Cal has a lot of very good RB's and one truly special one in Marshawn Lynch.

Again, can you explain the system to me and why it makes it so easy for both QB's and RB's? I've been asking that question here since well before the draft and nobody seems to have an answer, they just know it's the system. You'd think they play 13 guys or something the way people talk about the system.

 

[clif]

Russ,

I hope Tedford is around still in two or three more years. There is a guy here at Phoenix College that is supposed to end up at Cal in that amout of time. He is about 5' 8'' and pretty quick so when you mentioned those other guys I could see why Cal would be interested in him. He is not spectacular right now, but very quick.

Kind of a friend of the family.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ,

I hope Tedford is around still in two or three more years. There is a guy here at Phoenix College that is supposed to end up at Cal in that amout of time. He is about 5' 8'' and pretty quick so when you mentioned those other guys I could see why Cal would be interested in him. He is not spectacular right now, but very quick.

Kind of a friend of the family.

Sounds like Forsett who truth be told is closer to 5'6" than 5'8". Cal's system is somewhat similar to Green's, the whole idea is spread you out and exploit matchups. If you play nickel packages, they run on you, if you play 8 in the box they throw. This year the passing game is supposed to be more vertical since they have speed at WR this year, but their best QB got hurt and Ayoob's arm is very marginal, so they're not throwing deep as much.

The one concern with Tedford is will he stay put.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm getting really sick of our runningbacks playing like *******, but that's just me.

 

[spanky1]

I'm getting really sick of our runningbacks playing like *******, but that's just me.

....just a question for clarification purposes only.....not to stir up a debate. What do you mean by the statement....."runningbacks playing like *******" ?

 

[Russ Smith]

....just a question for clarification purposes only.....not to stir up a debate. What do you mean by the statement....."runningbacks playing like *******" ?

Look at the title of the thread. I think K9 was just making a play on words about it.

 

[BACH]

Yeah and then he ran for ummm 1500 yards- He was behind a guy namd Davis or something like that right who helped them win that bowl game at the end of the year. Hmmm I guess he should have started right away right?

Finally, you get something right..

Portis was behind Davis when they won the superbowl. Of course, he wasn't even in the league for two more years, but in theory he was behind Davis.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

McAllister has skill- but wont be great- thats all I'm saying- I would like to just say I like Shipp- and think that JJ is soft- thats it- doest have much shake to him either- we shall see- I'll leave it alone-

What little credibility you once had vanished once you came up with this doozy. Doubting the ability of Duece McAllister while proclaiming how much you like Marcel Shipp. Hilarious.