Implications of the Rivers to LAC Deal

[elindholm]

Some fans and at least one reporter talk like he can be traded during the draft. I don't think so unless the NBA allows it as a future consideration.

The teams can agree to the terms during the draft, then make it official on the 1st.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Scola cannot be traded until July 1st. This is referenced in an article written by Paul Coro dated 2-8-13 and elsewhere. Some fans and at least one reporter talk like he can be traded during the draft. I don't think so unless the NBA allows it as a future consideration.



http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...-showing-young-phoenix-suns-path-success.html

Thanks. The part of me that wants instant gratification hopes we can make a trade using him as a future consideration (however that works) but the more patient version of me would rather see us trade him for a future pick anyway. I'm sure there will be another draft that projects to be as weak as this one but I doubt it will come in my lifetime. IMO, this could end up being an historically bad draft if none of the high-risk guys pan out.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Thanks. The part of me that wants instant gratification hopes we can make a trade using him as a future consideration (however that works) but the more patient version of me would rather see us trade him for a future pick anyway. I'm sure there will be another draft that projects to be as weak as this one but I doubt it will come in my lifetime. IMO, this could end up being an historically bad draft if none of the high-risk guys pan out.

Steve

I'm all for instant gratification if there is a way to make it work.

 

[Mainstreet]

The teams can agree to the terms during the draft, then make it official on the 1st.

I don't know if it's been used in this way on an amnestied player.

 

[elindholm]

I don't know if it's been used in this way on an amnestied player.

I can't remember whether it has been with an amnestied player specifically, but I know it has happened before with players who had similar trade restrictions.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can't remember whether it has been with an amnestied player specifically, but I know it has happened before with players who had similar trade restrictions.

I think we can agree Scola will be traded and the first day it can officially be consummated is July 1st.

Anyway, how long are we talking about, 4 days, so it's no biggie one way or the other. Teams have understandings all the time about trades.

 

[SunsTzu]

2. Paul and Howard will not be able to unite in free agency. I cannot see how the Clips can clear the space and the Lakers are not going to trade him to the Clips.

If the Clippers know they will be able to sign Dwight they can clear up space by dealing Griffin.

 

[elindholm]

If the Clippers know they will be able to sign Dwight they can clear up space by dealing Griffin.

Which would make no sense. Griffin impacts a game nearly as much as Howard does, he has a better health record, and he has a lot more years ahead of him.

Any scenarios in which the Clippers deal Griffin in order to make room for Howard are fantasies of fans of the team that would get Griffin in the proposed deal.

 

[SunsTzu]

Which would make no sense. Griffin impacts a game nearly as much as Howard does, he has a better health record, and he has a lot more years ahead of him.

Any scenarios in which the Clippers deal Griffin in order to make room for Howard are fantasies of fans of the team that would get Griffin in the proposed deal.

We obviously have different views about how much Griffin and Howard impact the game(I'd have no real interest in acquiring Grffin so I have no hidden agenda in that regard), however Griffin has missed more games due to injury seeing being drafted in 2009 than Howard has since being drafted in 2004.

 

[SirStefan32]

Which would make no sense. Griffin impacts a game nearly as much as Howard does, he has a better health record, and he has a lot more years ahead of him.

Any scenarios in which the Clippers deal Griffin in order to make room for Howard are fantasies of fans of the team that would get Griffin in the proposed deal.

While I agree with you that there is likely no chance of this happening, I do think that Howard is significantly better than Griffin. I actually think that both of them are grossly overrated, but I think Howard is overrated a bit less than Griffin.
At the very least, due to his sheer size and length, Howard is a big factor on defense (overrated as he may be), and he doesn't seem to be as one-dimensional as Griffin. I feel like Griffin is Amare part 2, at best, while Howard is a "one of the kind" type of a player in today's NBA with barely any real Centers.
Yes, Griffin seems to be more durable and is a bit younger, so he very well may be a better option, but from perspective, Howard is much more valuable. Also, is Paul wants Howard instead of Griffin, the Clippers will trade Griffin to sign Dwight. Paul runs the Clippers, not their owner or GM.

 

[Gaddabout]

Do you think Dallas's interest in dumping the #13 was contingent upon being able to make a run at Howard? I thought they were lukewarm about the pick either way.

How about this?

Phoenix gets
#13 pick
Shawn Marion (9.3, 2014)

Dallas gets
Luis Scola (4.5, 2015)
Shannon Brown (3.5, 2014)

It's possible that this trade could not be made official until some time after the draft, because of Scola's contract situation.

The Suns are already $6.3 mil under cap (at least last I checked), so they would only need to send one of those players to the Mavs. I don't know what the cap rules are on sending both, even though the Suns would be taking on $300K in salary in that situation.

If the intent is to clear the roster, rebuild, and let Marion retire a Sun, so be it.

I know Cleveland has been in talks for both Marion and the No. 13 pick for their No. 19. That's probably hard to beat.

 

[elindholm]

Griffin has missed more games due to injury seeing being drafted in 2009 than Howard has since being drafted in 2004.

Griffin has missed a grand total of two games since coming back from his one major injury. Howard has missed 18 games over the past two seasons, and his numbers took a huge hit last year. Health is more of a concern with Howard than it is with Griffin.

 

[Phrazbit]

Griffin has missed a grand total of two games since coming back from his one major injury. Howard has missed 18 games over the past two seasons, and his numbers took a huge hit last year. Health is more of a concern with Howard than it is with Griffin.

Griffin has certainly been more healthy recently, I agree. But Blake plays such a reckless style and its compounded by how teams have started really making dangerous fouls against him in an effort to get into his head. Blake IMO is a bigger risk for a serious injury in the future.

Personally I'd not pursue this trade if I am the Clippers. Blake is more flash than substance but if Doc Rivers could get Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to become part of an elite defense then I would think he could do it with Blake. While Dwight between health, attitude and his recent decline, has too many question marks. The guy is a 9 year pro and he seems like one of the most immature players in the league.

 

[elindholm]

Blake is more flash than substance but if Doc Rivers could get Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to become part of an elite defense then I would think he could do it with Blake. While Dwight between health, attitude and his recent decline, has too many question marks. The guy is a 9 year pro and he seems like one of the most immature players in the league.

Right, to be clear, I am in no way a Blake Griffin fan, but my opinion of Howard has really nose-dived in the last year and a half.

 

[Joe Mama]

I can't remember who referenced the Bruce Cooper article earlier. If you guys want to read something that probably made McDonagh below whatever he was drinking at the time through his nose here you go…

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...general-manager-draft-trades-free-agency.html

There are so many bad ideas here I really don't know where to start but I do think the worst is trading a 2015 first-round draft pick for Dallas's #13 in this draft. As much as I want Dieng I don't want to trade any future first-round picks.

Which would make no sense. Griffin impacts a game nearly as much as Howard does, he has a better health record, and he has a lot more years ahead of him.

Any scenarios in which the Clippers deal Griffin in order to make room for Howard are fantasies of fans of the team that would get Griffin in the proposed deal.

I and of agree with this up until the point where you say it's fantasy that the Clippers would want to do it. It's something Chris Paul was supposedly interested in and I think I read that they made overtures that were quickly shot down by the Lakers. At the time I said the same thing as you. I disagree that a healthy Blake Griffin has almost the same impact as a healthy Howard, but if I'm the Lakers looking at this summer and looking at last season with Howard I would make that trade in a heartbeat, especially if it included Bledsoe as was discussed in this article I read. Howard is my least favorite player in the league at this point.

Joe

 

[SirStefan32]

Cooper article was just incredible. I could not believe that was a serious article and not a joke. Scola for a second round pick, 2015 pick for the Mav's first rounder this year, and sign Stephen Jackson. I had to re-read that a couple of times because I was convinced it was a joke.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Cooper article was just incredible. I could not believe that was a serious article and not a joke. Scola for a second round pick, 2015 pick for the Mav's first rounder this year, and sign Stephen Jackson. I had to re-read that a couple of times because I was convinced it was a joke.

That's Cooper. I think he hangs out at all the message boards, find the most clueless fans and steals their ideas. The only positive I can say about him is that he does an excellent job of identifying the most clueless fans to steal from.

Steve

 

[leclerc]

I'd be okay with drafting Dieng, but maybe not at #5. We've got some much junk, oh man...

 

[Mainstreet]

I like Bruce Cooper as a person, but he has lost some major credibility with me for his ideas concerning the the Suns in this article.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Right, to be clear, I am in no way a Blake Griffin fan, but my opinion of Howard has really nose-dived in the last year and a half.

Its true, but that Laker team was in absolute turmoil this year, and I am not sure DAntoni knows what to do with Howard.

 

[Errntknght]

I didn't think the Cooper article was that bad. Len at #5 is not a bad move, IMO, assuming our training staff gives a thumbs up. This draft has lots of decent bigs and I think we would do well to draft three of them if we could pick up a couple more first round picks. Bigs take longer to develop so getting them early in the rebuilding process is a good plan if you can do it. I also agree that Gortat and Scola should go - heck, I think O'Neal should, too, because we don't want to win many games next year and they do not fit with our rebuilding time table. Markieff, Haddadi and two rookies being our frontcourt should accomplish that.

Personally I want them to draft Oladipo at 5 if he's available - this is more about the delight I take in watching an elite perimeter defender doing his thing. I enjoyed the heck out PJ and he's not elite - Gordon Hayward showed that all you have to do is make good use of screens and you have little troubling scoring on him. (I would tend toward using PJ to defend 'stretch' 4's - he gives them fits on the perimeter and he'd be able to cope with them down low surprisingly well, too. It probably wouldn't work so well in the playoffs when teams could adjust to take advantage of his size.)

Trading our 2015 first round pick for Dallas' #13 pick this year is not a terrible idea. I do it a heartbeat if we could draft Dieng with that pick. I suppose if the 2015 draft is known to be 'loaded', we should think carefully about it but if its not why worry. I think we'll be somewhere in the #10-15 slot range by then, having great faith is our new FO - and two years headstart is worth quite a bit. If our old crew was running the show this year, I'd want to hang on to future picks for dear life.

Where I disagreed violently with Cooper was bringing in JJ Redick and Jackson - they could well hurt our draft pick in 2014 and they have little value for the future beyond that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I didn't think the Cooper article was that bad. Len at #5 is not a bad move, IMO, assuming our training staff gives a thumbs up. This draft has lots of decent bigs and I think we would do well to draft three of them if we could pick up a couple more first round picks. Bigs take longer to develop so getting them early in the rebuilding process is a good plan if you can do it. I also agree that Gortat and Scola should go - heck, I think O'Neal should, too, because we don't want to win many games next year and they do not fit with our rebuilding time table. Markieff, Haddadi and two rookies being our frontcourt should accomplish that.

Personally I want them to draft Oladipo at 5 if he's available - this is more about the delight I take in watching an elite perimeter defender doing his thing. I enjoyed the heck out PJ and he's not elite - Gordon Hayward showed that all you have to do is make good use of screens and you have little troubling scoring on him. (I would tend toward using PJ to defend 'stretch' 4's - he gives them fits on the perimeter and he'd be able to cope with them down low surprisingly well, too. It probably wouldn't work so well in the playoffs when teams could adjust to take advantage of his size.)

Trading our 2015 first round pick for Dallas' #13 pick this year is not a terrible idea. I do it a heartbeat if we could draft Dieng with that pick. I suppose if the 2015 draft is known to be 'loaded', we should think carefully about it but if its not why worry. I think we'll be somewhere in the #10-15 slot range by then, having great faith is our new FO - and two years headstart is worth quite a bit. If our old crew was running the show this year, I'd want to hang on to future picks for dear life.

Where I disagreed violently with Cooper was bringing in JJ Redick and Jackson - they could well hurt our draft pick in 2014 and they have little value for the future beyond that.

Len at 5 would be fine except most of the recent reports/rumors suggest he is going number one. As for trading our 2015 pick for 13 this year, I think that's a risky move. We are not likely to be better than 13th by that draft and while I have no idea whether it will be a strong draft or a weak draft, the one we're trading in to is arguably the worst in decades. If Dieng is really all that desirable we should be able to acquire a pick without paying a premium. Too many teams are looking to move down or out of this draft. I guess we could live with the Dallas deal as long as our pick is fully protected but I don't how possible that is.

I have no doubt that we will take Oladipo at 5 if he's still there but it's not looking like he will be. At this point, I really wouldn't be shocked if he's taken first. I still think it's too high for him but since I think it's too high for every player in this draft, I guess it doesn't really matter. I was surprised to read that Chris Sheridan thinks he's in the Wade mode and if a few teams view him that way, our chances of drafting him are pretty much history unless we want to trade up for him.

Steve