Insider on the Suns

slinslin

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Still trying to get a good read on the Grizzlies-Suns trade that sent Bo Outlaw and Jake Tsakalidis to Memphis for Brevin Knight, Cezary Trybanski and Robert Archibald?
Executives around the league feel that the Grizzlies got the better end of the deal. After spending time last week in Memphis and Phoenix talking to Jerry West and Bryan Colangelo about the deal, I think the thing was more even than people think.

Clearly the Grizzlies got the better end from a talent standpoint. Outlaw's the type of energy guy Hubie Brown loves. After West failed in his attempt to get Michael Olowokandi and Erick Dampier, Tsakalidis was the best 7-footer left on the trading block. The Grizzlies gave up three players they didn't need and trimmed their roster in the process. Not too bad.

But the Suns claim they knew what they were doing. The team wasn't seeing the progress from Tsakalidis that it hoped. With the Suns' new, run-and-gun offense, Tsakalidis' lumbering style just wasn't a good fit. Jake Voskuhl, on the other hand, runs the floor well and plays with the type of energy the team feels that it needs.

And as much as everyone in Phoenix loves Outlaw, the team was so impressed with Zarko Carbarkapa in the summer league it felt it could afford to lose Outlaw. Outlaw gave the team 4.7 ppg and 4.8 rpg in 22.5 minutes last season. The Suns feel that Carbarkapa is capable of giving them 10 ppg and 5 rpg if they were to give him similar minutes.

The move also saved them roughly $2 million this season and another $13 million in salary and luxury-tax payments next year. It may save them more down the road. The Suns are hoping to move Knight to clear another $10 million in salary and luxury-tax payments this year. The team has talked with the Jazz about a deal that would send Knight and a first-round pick that the Suns are owed from the Cavs (it's lottery protected). The Jazz may be interested, but not right now. They'd prefer to have the Suns pay the salary until the trade deadline approaches. A player doesn't count against the cap or the luxury tax as long as he's off the roster by the end of the regular season. Look for the two teams to start talking again in February.

For now, however, the Suns are hurting a bit in the depth department. With Voskuhl and Scott Williams out with injuries, the team is trying to turn Tom Gugliotta into a center.

Speaking of rookies, Stephon Marbury is raving about the Suns' second first-round pick, Brazilian point guard Leandro Barbosa. Barbosa's energy has stood out in an otherwise lifeless Suns team early.
"He's going to be special man," Marbury told Insider. "He's so long and quick and he really knows how to play."

It's no surprise that Barbosa has been on the floor in the fourth quarter the past couple of games. His defense and versatility have made him a regular early on in Frank Johnson's rotation. Says Johnson: "The language thing is the biggest barrier. But if he keeps up the learning curve, it's going to be hard for me to keep him off the floor."


So we pay Knight half of his 5M$ and don't pay the luxury tax on his contract.

But we lose a player who could still contribute for the rest of the season AND we throw in a draft pick that would likely be a high non lottery pick?

If we are doing that and don't sign any good FAs next summer Colangelo is officially turning into the new Sterling.
 

fordronken

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Originally posted by slinslin
If we are doing that and don't sign any good FAs next summer Colangelo is officially turning into the new Sterling.

No, that's not an overstatement or anything...
 

Mike Olbinski

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Re: Re: Re: Insider on the Suns

Originally posted by hcsilla
No, that is not.

Yes it is...it surprises me how one move a team makes can suddenly change a guy from Colangelo to Sterling...

Has the guy not earned your faith and respect? The Suns ALWAYS put the best team they can out there, they are always competitive.

Unbelievable how little faith some can have in this guy.

Mike
 

hcsilla

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Insider on the Suns

Originally posted by Chandler Mike
Yes it is...it surprises me how one move a team makes can suddenly change a guy from Colangelo to Sterling...
Not one move but 3 moves.
They traded Robinson, Tsakalidis and perhaps the CLE pick for JUST saving money.
 

Goldfield

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Insider on the Suns

Originally posted by Chandler Mike
Yes it is...it surprises me how one move a team makes can suddenly change a guy from Colangelo to Sterling...

Has the guy not earned your faith and respect? The Suns ALWAYS put the best team they can out there, they are always competitive.

Unbelievable how little faith some can have in this guy.

Mike
I agree, they allways do what they can to improve. Allways looking for that one trade that will help this team.

Thats how we got Amare, and thats how we got Barbosa. Not to mention Barkley, Kidd, MCNugget and the rest.

I trust their moves, no matter how they seem to help/hurt the team.

I for one dont like the trade, but I will support them no matter what.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Insider on the Suns

Originally posted by hcsilla
Not one move but 3 moves.
They traded Robinson, Tsakalidis and perhaps the CLE pick for JUST saving money.


:stupid: :rolleyes: :confused:

Are you really getting this out of shape about marginal players playing marginal minutes.

Whatever...
 
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slinslin

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When was the last time the Suns used their MLE? Tony Delk? And before that Rodney Rogers?

We have been doing absolutely ZERO in that regard over the last seasons while almost every top team especially in the West has been active no matter what there cap situations were.

Minnesota, Sacramento, Portland, LA, Dallas those teams aren't caring about money nearly as much as Colangelo and will spend their money if they can improve the team.

Colangelo hasn't done that.

If Colangelo keeps making trades simply because of money but doesn't start spending some on adding pieces to this team it will be really bad.

If he doesn't use the MLE to get us the best player we can land next offseason to add to our team I will run AMOK.

There weren't even rumors that they could be interessted in Olowokandi or Mourning for the MLE who would have certainly been a good additions to this team.

Looking back at what Sacramento gave up to get Brad Miller it really makes me sick.
 

JCSunsfan

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You can only have 12 on your active roster and another 3 on the injured list.

Sometimes you've got to decide who will best serve your team. That means cutting talent or trading it away. If you can save some money in the process, fine.

How does the roster look at the end of the day? Thats the real question.
 

scotsman13

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there is one thing that this team will never have on its team. and that is anyone who has anything to do with drugs. a lot of you dont know the suns back into the 80's when this team was almost destoryed by drugs. that is how jc got the team because it was about to be moved out of the state because of almost half the team being indited on drug charges. one of the single best player in suns history was traded for almost nothing, walter davis. and others were all shipped off and the team ended up in the lottery for 2 years, then the nance trade for kj and the rest is history. but because of this issue drugs of any type will get you off the team so fast that it will make your head spin. and that is what robinson did. he got busted for pot, and so he is gone.
 

JCSunsfan

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Slin, Sac gave up the MLE in order to stay in the thick of things. If they don't they slide back.

It is not the right time for the Suns to use their MLE. We will use our MLE the summer before we believe we will be competing for the championship. It will be used strategically to get the player that will make the most difference.

The time to use the MLE is closer to the peak for this group.

Patience.
 

hcsilla

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Originally posted by JCSunsfan
You can only have 12 on your active roster and another 3 on the injured list.

Sometimes you've got to decide who will best serve your team. That means cutting talent or trading it away.

So you mean that trading a future 1st rounder is a good idea for trimming our roster?

Or waiving of Dermarr Johnson for keeping of a roster spot for Ray Weathers?
 
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slinslin

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Insider on the Suns

Originally posted by BEERZ


Thats how we got Amare, and thats how we got Barbosa. Not to mention Barkley, Kidd, MCNugget and the rest.

I trust their moves, no matter how they seem to help/hurt the team.
.

It is not like we stole any of those guys except maybe Barkley. Afterall we gave up Michael Finley and Sam Cassell for Jason Kidd.

Trading for Antonio McDyess was an absolute disaster and crippled us.

We gave up a pick in one of the 3 best draft classes ever that turned into Ron Artest for Luc Longley who has been a disaster for the Suns.

We again gave up picks for Penny Hardaway who has been a disaster.

Tom Gugliotta has been horrible as well.

Never recruiting a real coach has been killing us.

We are lucky Colangelo and our scouting staff seem to be very good at drafting talented players but if you took all of the deals we made lately most of them were ok, a few have been good but some of them were really really bad.
 
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slinslin

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Originally posted by JCSunsfan
Slin, Sac gave up the MLE in order to stay in the thick of things. If they don't they slide back.

It is not the right time for the Suns to use their MLE. We will use our MLE the summer before we believe we will be competing for the championship. It will be used strategically to get the player that will make the most difference.

The time to use the MLE is closer to the peak for this group.

Patience.

If we opened the wallet and got someone like Brad Miller we would easily be contenders now already and even more for the future.

And besides that we have a MLE every season.

So if we lose Googs and Knight's contract next offseason but still don't spend some money to improve the team I don't think it is harsh to say that Colangelo is cheap by NBA standards.
 

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I hope that the Suns don't give up the Cleveland pick just to save money--to me, that would be much worse than the other 'cost-cutting' moves they've made so far.

McDyess, Penny and Googs were all good risks at the time, and definitely not 'cost-cutting' moves. The Longley trade was misguided, but most Suns fans would jump at another similar trade right now, and the Suns seem to be holding off--maybe they've learned something.

Drafting Amare more than makes up for past mistakes. I hope the Suns can keep building on what they've currently got.
 
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slinslin

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They have yet to start building on what they got and this years free agent market was a great opportunity and had the "perfect center for the suns" going to our division rival who isn't in a better cap situation either.

Brad Miller is young, can shoot, can defend, has size, can pass he would have been the absolutely perfect center for us for YEARS to come.

Yet there wasn't even the slighest rumor of us trying to do something.
 

JCSunsfan

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Originally posted by hcsilla
So you mean that trading a future 1st rounder is a good idea for trimming our roster?

Or waiving of Dermarr Johnson for keeping of a roster spot for Ray Weathers?

Weathers is camp fodder. He's not making the team.

I'll believe it about the trade of the Cleveland pick when I see it. I can't believe that we would wait until the break and then make this trade, when we could wait until next summer and cut Knight ourselves.
 

elindholm

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I think the Marbury extension means that the Suns will not use their MLE next year, or any time soon. They simply can't afford to.

Once Marbury, Marion, and Stoudemire are all on max contracts, there's barely enough payroll to fill out the roster. If the Suns want to retain any of their decent young players, they'll need every dollar they can get.

If the Suns sign any FA next season for a lengthy (3+ years) deal at more than $2 million average per year, I will be quite surprised.
 
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slinslin

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Originally posted by JCSunsfan
Weathers is camp fodder. He's not making the team.

I'll believe it about the trade of the Cleveland pick when I see it. I can't believe that we would wait until the break and then make this trade, when we could wait until next summer and cut Knight ourselves.

Colangelo would save like 7M$ or so if he could ship Knight to Utah because the luxury tax only affects players who are on your roster at the end of the season.

And this seems to be all that Colangelo is looking for right now.

He also has a history of wasting future picks in trades.
 

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I honestly dont see the SUns spenindg freely to try and vie for a championship until that juggernaut to the West is disbanded. And IM totally cool with that. Theres always the outside chance that we could go all the way. ANy given day, baby.

Id rather us maintain, and position ourselves well for a few years down the road, than futilly try and keep up with Kupchak and his penchant for signing multi millionaire all satrs for the minimum now. The wolves arent winning it this year. The Mavs arent winning it this year, the Kings are winning it this year. Eh, Im too cut and dry. Could they? Sure, just like I think we could. But I thik the smarter play is positioning for the future, when the Lakers come back down to earth.

Slin, I understand you and hcsilla don't agree with the process apparently in place, but don't you think its possible that this is all part of bigger plan? I do.
 

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He also has a history of wasting future picks in trades. [/B]


Somewhat true. How though are we going to be able to afford another high non lottery pick on a squad that features three max players?
 

scotsman13

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slinslin, do you really think that brad miller is a high end center? if there was ever a case of someone being over paid and not earning an allstar berth it is brad miller. in almost every area he didnt live up to what amare did last year and they played about the same time on the court. both averaged about 31 min a game. amare scored 13.5 vs. 13.1, rebounds 8.8 vs 8.3 for miller, blocks 1.06 vs. .56 for brad. would you pay over 10 million dollars (including taxes) for a player that average less then 14 points a game and didnt rebound well, block shots or was a great defender? and that is just saying that the suns could have talked him into take the MLE.
 
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slinslin

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Miller is a good defender and rebounder.

8.3 rebounds is good when playing only 31 mpg and alongside Jermaine O'Neal.

Miller would be the perfect partner for Amare.
 
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