instead of criticizing Payne...

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's more about how the situation was handled by McDyess and the Nuggets. It was all so distasteful. Although technically no NBA rules were violated I think it was ethically wrong.

The Nuggets trade a player and are well compensated, then woo him back after one season. The whole situation was handled so distastefully. It is an experience I'd like to forget.

For those who want to relive it, here is a link.

Remember when McDyess dumped Phx in blizzard?

In a strange, sordid affair Antonio McDyess is forced to choose between the Phoenix Suns and Denver Nuggets. He did not make it easy.

www.brightsideofthesun.com

Yeah but again I don’t fault mcdyess. It’s not like he said to the Denver brass “oooh I got an idea, trade me to Phoenix. I’m a free agent at years end and I’ll resign with you and we’ll be so much better!” He got traded from a team he liked and felt at home with to a team that, by some accounts, either confused him or didn’t make him feel all warm and cozy. And then the lockout created even footing and he was given the hard press by the nuggets. He was considered kind of naive and he resigned with his old team. Placing fault at his feet, in even the slightest, seems entirely misplaced.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah but again I don’t fault mcdyess. It’s not like he said to the Denver brass “oooh I got an idea, trade me to Phoenix. I’m a free agent at years end and I’ll resign with you and we’ll be so much better!” He got traded from a team he liked and felt at home with to a team that, by some accounts, either confused him or didn’t make him feel all warm and cozy. And then the lockout created even footing and he was given the hard press by the nuggets. He was considered kind of naive and he resigned with his old team. Placing fault at his feet, in even the slightest, seems entirely misplaced.

I can't speak for anyone but myself but if a team had traded a boatload of assets to get me, I would feel some moral obligation to balance the equation.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I can't speak for anyone but myself but if a team had traded a boatload of assets to get me, I would feel some moral obligation to balance the equation.

So you would do what, exactly? Play with a team you don’t want to play with? Live in a city you don’t prefer? Ask the nuggets to give something back? I’m sorry, this isn’t meant to be a dig at you, but I think your position is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[Mainstreet]

So you would do what, exactly? Play with a team you don’t want to play with? Live in a city you don’t prefer? Ask the nuggets to give something back? I’m sorry, this isn’t meant to be a dig at you, but I think your position is absolutely ludicrous.

I'd try to work a sign and trade if the rules permitted. If not I'd sign a short contract and let the team know I wanted to be traded when the opportunity presented itself. I still believe in moral principles.

When you use the words in bold, it's a dig.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd try to work a sign and trade if the rules permitted. If not I'd sign a short contract and let the team know I wanted to be traded when the opportunity presented itself. I still believe in moral principles.

When you use the words in bold, it's a dig.

No, it’s a criticism of your position, not of you there’s a difference.

So in trying to work a sign and trade you’re purposefully and voluntarily weakening the team with whom you’re signing. You are no longer under contract with your old team. That responsibility has literally been completed. You are signing a contract with another team. Your responsibility moving forward is to your new team. Weakening it is like violating a fiduciary responsibility to your new team. Like I’ve said, you didn’t make the previous team sign you. They knew the facts.

This has nothing to do with morals. This sounds like you’re a suns fan whose feelings were hurt.

What you’re suggesting has never been done any player in the nba.

 

[Mainstreet]

No, it’s a criticism of your position, not of you there’s a difference.

So in trying to work a sign and trade you’re purposefully and voluntarily weakening the team with whom you’re signing. You are no longer under contract with your old team. That responsibility has literally been completed. You are signing a contract with another team. Your responsibility moving forward is to your new team. Weakening it is like violating a fiduciary responsibility to your new team. Like I’ve said, you didn’t make the previous team sign you. They knew the facts.

This has nothing to do with morals. This sounds like you’re a suns fan whose feelings were hurt.

What you’re suggesting has never been done any player in the nba.

Teams do sign and trades all the time. It usually benefits both teams.

When the Suns traded Nash to the Lakers it accommodated both teams and the player.

Actually I find more fault with the Nuggets handling of the matter but that doesn't excuse McDyess. I thought the whole matter was handled terribly on that end.

 

[somethingshesaid]

This is why I don't blame Ryan McDonough: because I assume McDonough just did what he was told. The last time Dragon left, McDonough made some quite petulant-sounding statement that frankly sounded like Sarver's thoughts.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Because I'm no longer a fan but an ex-fan anyway and have less emotional stake involved, I guess I'll try to avoid saying anything about Dragon. He would only come up once more, if I bother explaining in another thread why exactly I just walked away.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is why I don't blame Ryan McDonough: because I assume McDonough just did what he was told. The last time Dragon left, McDonough made some quite petulant-sounding statement that frankly sounded like Sarver's thoughts.

I think you're reading it wrong. Sarver and Dragic had a great relationship, Goran mentioned it a few times after he left. In fact, Robert is the one that talked him into rejoining Phoenix in the first place.

Sarver deserves a lot of blame for a lot of things, this just isn't one of them. McD had no interpersonal skills, much like Sarver, and those comments were consistent with other things Ryan said.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Teams do sign and trades all the time. It usually benefits both teams.

When the Suns traded Nash to the Lakers it accommodated both teams and the player.

Actually I find more fault with the Nuggets handling of the matter but that doesn't excuse McDyess. I thought the whole matter was handled terribly on that end.

Teams do sign and trades because a player wants more $$$ than the team signing the player can give without the sign and trade. It’s never because the team signing the player and the player leaving his old team just feel bad for the old team. That’s a patently ridiculous comment. You think the lakers wanted to give the suns - a team in their own division - assets? Cmon man.

 

[Mainstreet]

Teams do sign and trades because a player wants more $$$ than the team signing the player can give without the sign and trade. It’s never because the team signing the player and the player leaving his old team just feel bad for the old team. That’s a patently ridiculous comment. You think the lakers wanted to give the suns - a team in their own division - assets? Cmon man.

Get over yourself. Your comments are insulting. There are better ways to say things.

Grow a vocabulary if you can.

 

[Mainstreet]

So you would do what, exactly? Play with a team you don’t want to play with? Live in a city you don’t prefer? Ask the nuggets to give something back? I’m sorry, this isn’t meant to be a dig at you, but I think your position is absolutely ludicrous.

And the above.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And the above.

Sorry man you’re trying to argue that a team is going to make themselves worse because of some nonexistent code. And that a player has some responsibility to a team he was traded to for a year. If you can’t see how that’s silly I don’t know what to tell you. I get it, you feel like the jilted lover. We all did. But at some point you gotta step back and say, she didn’t owe me anything. She chose someone else (in this case her long time ex that had dumped her and now wanted her back). And just get over it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Get over yourself. Your comments are insulting. There are better ways to say things.

Grow a vocabulary if you can.

Btw, nice hypocrisy!

 

[somethingshesaid]

Even though there's obviously more blatant fighting here than on my old Suns forum, I still like this one better so far, because at least there isn't instead blatantly snide snarking from the moderators themselves.

 

[Ronin]

Get over yourself. Your comments are insulting. There are better ways to say things.

Grow a vocabulary if you can.

Please calm down.

Btw, nice hypocrisy!

Stop.

 

[Mainstreet]

Btw, nice hypocrisy!

And you use inflammatory words a third time in this thread. Try discussing something without hitting below the belt.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Moderators, do you close threads in this forum? Because that would seem called for here. The topics people are fighting over aren't even related to my OP.

 

[Mainstreet]

In the last four playoff games Cam Payne has scored 2, 6, 3 and 8 points consecutively.

During that same period he only has 5 assists, 3 steals and 6 turnovers.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Moderators, do you close threads in this forum? Because that would seem called for here. The topics people are fighting over aren't even related to my OP.

Eh we’ve moved on. The mods are good here. Give a nice leash, but our community, despite the arguing, doesn’t really dislike each other.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And you use inflammatory words a third time in this thread. Try discussing something without hitting below the belt.

Its not inflammatory if it was an accurate word for your action, which it was.

Let’s move on.

 

[Mainstreet]

Its not inflammatory if it was an accurate word for your action, which it was.

Let’s move on.

I've moved on but I disagree with your use of these words. They are totally unnecessary in a conversation.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I've moved on but I disagree with your use of these words. They are totally unnecessary in a conversation.

What words would you have preferred? Unreasonable? Inappropriate? I think on this board getting so offended by the words “ridiculous” and “ludicrous” when stating my opinion of your opinion may necessitate just a little thicker skin. If someone used those words regarding my position on a matter I’d recognize they were entitled to their opinion and not get my feelings hurt. In fact, it happens all the time. Shoot in the gameday thread I was called an “ignorant fan.” Eh, so be it if that’s what someone thinks of my bball acumen.

And when you criticize someone for doing something and then in your very next paragraph do exactly that, what word more aptly describes your actions than “hypocrisy?”

 

[Covert Rain]

There is a difference between saying something someone said is ludicrous verses calling them ludicrous. There is a difference between saying what they said was hypocritical and calling someone a hypocrite.

Are we really going to start dinging people for critiquing an idea or statement verses calling people names now? Those are very different things. If that is how things are going to be I am out. Seriously, that's over-the-top sensitive and silly.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is a difference between saying something someone said is ludicrous verses calling them ludicrous. There is a difference between saying what they said was hypocritical and calling someone a hypocrite.

Are we really going to start dinging people for critiquing an idea or statement verses calling people names now? Those are very different things. If that is how things are going to be I am out. Seriously, that's over-the-top sensitive and silly.

I stayed on the right side of all that. I said his position was ridiculous and his comment was ludicrous. I never called him either of those. And I just pointed out his statements were hypocritical. Obviously he took those as attacks on him. I might disagree with mainstream a lot but I don’t call him names.