Interesting comment from Ron Jaworski

[dreamcastrocks]

Thomas Jones is not that great of a back people. Jones may finally get his 1000 yard season this year, after his 6th season. Can you imagine Cards fans waiting 6 years to get that kind of production from a 7th overall pick? (correct me if I am wrong on the pick #)

People here were/are on JJ's case after 2 GAMES and he is a 2nd round pick.

The Cards did not screw up on the Jones situation.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Because Henry was a huge risk? In case you missed it he's suspended 4 weeks for violating the drug program. Which means he had strikes already against him. Given his history of money and contract problems does anybody really want to give up anything for a guy in the last year of his contract one strike away from a 4 game suspension?

I do not consider bring in Henry in for the contract that he had as a risk. Henry was in the last year of his contract. If he doesnt perform, he doesnt get a contract. They are already doing it with our QB's this season.

Are we really giving up something if we decide that the player that we were going to trade him for gets cut? I dont.

 

[Russ Smith]

I do not consider bring in Henry in for the contract that he had as a risk. Henry was in the last year of his contract. If he doesnt perform, he doesnt get a contract. They are already doing it with our QB's this season.

Are we really giving up something if we decide that the player that we were going to trade him for gets cut? I dont.

Ok but my point is they were NOT going to do the deal for Shelton and in fact they got a 3rd rounder from the titans. Unless that pick was protected, and I sure hope the Titans were smart enough to do that, they got totally and completely hosed. They no doubt conducted their draft and offseason under the assumption that with Henry and Brown they were set at RB.

If we'd given up a 3rd rounder (Eric Green) to get a guy who wound up suspended I think we'd all be pretty furious right now.

If they'd have done the deal for Shelton I'm sure we would have pulled the trigger.

I was never particularly interested in Henry as soon as I read that nonsense about his rookie contract and the sex with a 15 year old girl I knew the guy was a ticking timebomb.

 

[john h]

What's JJ's problem then?

This weekend I was watching the RedZone where they constantly switch from game to game with key plays. What I saw with the better backs was that time and time again they would hit the line and if there was no hole they bounced off and found a new one or took it to the outside. I think more times than not there was no hole but these guys have that something that separates them from the Arringtons and our backs. Watching Reggie Bush was like watching Barry Sanders all over again. Take it to the bank this guy will be a starter in the NFL next year. He had moves I have never seen along with speed and power. He is the best college back I have seen since OJ or Sanders. I would have taken Lienhart up until watching that game with a #1 choice. Now I would have to think that over and might just take Bush. He is a game changer. Our OL may not be very good but our RB's make them look worse than they are. Our old friend Thomas Jones once again scored two TD's and led the Bears to victory. Pittman ran for 137 yards. I sure get disappointed when I see our former players doing so well. Not for them as I liked both of them and am happy they are doing well. Just wonder why we could not get this from them.

 

[john h]

Shipp is doing OK for the small amount of blocking he gets. But I do see him cut away from the hole and it was a bad move.

I have to agree with Jaws. Tivo proves him correct.

What I have been watching is how good backs from other teams make yardage when there are no holes. They have the knack for finding a new one or taking it to the outside and cut back in. Take a look at some of the rushing leaders. Probably 50% of the time they have no hole and they end up making yardage some place other than planned. That helps separate great backs from so so backs. Half our problems with running is our backs. They are just not that good.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think the big difference I see between us and other teams is that on other teams the cutback lanes are there, for us it seems not only is the lane not there, it's the backside pursuit that's often hitting the RB. They're either slow to the hole, or we're not sealing the backside.

I saw Tatum Bell yesterday 3 times, once for a TD, start left, see the hole wasn't there and just quickly bounce right and hit the cutback lane. The big run was essentially the same thing the initial hole wasn't there but he did the patented Denver one cut and go thing and had daylight. When our RB's try to cut it back they've got tacklers waiting for them, it's as if our OL thinks well they're not running behind me, so my block doesn't matter.

 

[john h]

I hear that.

Unless of course you are Denver and just poop them out on command.

The last good Cardinal runningback was Otis Anderson... that is a frightening gap, just astonishing really.

Thomas Jones was in the top 7 in the NFL when I last looked and scored two more TD's Sunday. Pittman ran for 137. Hearst had a fine carreer after leaving AZ. The Cards apparently just do not know how to get much out of some decent RB's. Why is that? Is the various coaches we have had?

 

[john h]

No, Garrison Hearst was. We misused him.

Right you are Vince but so was T. Jones and Pittman.

 

[john h]

Thomas Jones is not that great of a back people. Jones may finally get his 1000 yard season this year, after his 6th season. Can you imagine Cards fans waiting 6 years to get that kind of production from a 7th overall pick? (correct me if I am wrong on the pick #)

People here were/are on JJ's case after 2 GAMES and he is a 2nd round pick.

The Cards did not screw up on the Jones situation.

Jones was 7th in rushing in the NFL a week ago. Scored 2 TD's Sunday. He can run without a doubt.

 

[Russ Smith]

Thomas Jones was in the top 7 in the NFL when I last looked and scored two more TD's Sunday. Pittman ran for 137. Hearst had a fine carreer after leaving AZ. The Cards apparently just do not know how to get much out of some decent RB's. Why is that? Is the various coaches we have had?

Because some good RB's take time to develop and need repetition?

I'm still not a big Pittman fan, he just doesn't see the field constantly running into his OL, fumbles too much, and the whole domestic violence thing really bugged me. But he's a solid player.

Jones simply never got enough reps here he was always competing with someone and if he didn't do well right away, he lost the job. He had health issues too but the kid started only 15 games in his 3 year career here and in his 3 seasons as a Cardinal he topped 20 carries in a game only THREE times! He did that his first 3 games as a Bear.

Jones has improved and he had to go because of the off field problems, but part of the reason he didn't excel on the field was he was misused.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Originally Posted by dreamcastrocks
Thomas Jones is not that great of a back people. Jones may finally get his 1000 yard season this year, after his 6th season. Can you imagine Cards fans waiting 6 years to get that kind of production from a 7th overall pick? (correct me if I am wrong on the pick #)

People here were/are on JJ's case after 2 GAMES and he is a 2nd round pick.

The Cards did not screw up on the Jones situation.



Jones was 7th in rushing in the NFL a week ago. Scored 2 TD's Sunday. He can run without a doubt.

Again, this is now his 6th year in the league. Do you think that we should have held onto Jones for 3 more years playing at a subpar level?

At some point, you have to perform. He did not do that in a Cards uni. Even the Bears were not convinced that he was their back, drafting Benson with the #4 overall pick. I would say that Jones an average back. He doesnt break tackles very well, and it is not like he has blinding speed. He is better than average picking up the blitzes now, but when he played here, he would just curl up.


Now, I hope that Jones does well and gets his 1st 1000 yard season. I just have a hard time believing that we somehow made a mistake in getting rid of him after 3 years of subpar play.

 

[earthsci]

Because some good RB's take time to develop and need repetition?

Zzzzzzzing!

 

[conraddobler]

Because some good RB's take time to develop and need repetition?

I'm still not a big Pittman fan, he just doesn't see the field constantly running into his OL, fumbles too much, and the whole domestic violence thing really bugged me. But he's a solid player.

Jones simply never got enough reps here he was always competing with someone and if he didn't do well right away, he lost the job. He had health issues too but the kid started only 15 games in his 3 year career here and in his 3 seasons as a Cardinal he topped 20 carries in a game only THREE times! He did that his first 3 games as a Bear.

Jones has improved and he had to go because of the off field problems, but part of the reason he didn't excel on the field was he was misused.

To be fair he constantly had some breathing problem while he was here that must have resolved itself later on.

Not every move the Cardinals make is bad because we are stupid at talent evaluation, sometimes the player for whatever reason, dosen't have the goods when you have them, then develops later.

The real problem with the Cardinals is that we are always so in need of a savior that we end up doing the next routine all the time when we shouldn't be that way.

DG's drafting isn't going to fix that in two years, he's working on it but it's a huge mountain that isn't going to get moved in a couple of years of finally retaining players and drafting good ones.

It might take us two more years of this and we will punch the next button on Green just about the time we shouldn't because that's how we do things.

Then the new guy will purge the players that fit DG's system but not his and the cycle renews itself.

That's why as much as I loathe DG, for better or worse he gets two more years now, there is no way out of this but to make him wallow in his own creation and fix it by sheer will or go down in flames.

At some point the pressure of his legacy will get him in gear, I hope.

 

[john h]

Marcel, of late, did make some poor decisions; ignoring the hole he was given and trying to bounce outside with too little speed and quickness.

But it's not as though he would have picked up a gazillion yards had he lowered his shoulder and cut into the hole either. But he would have picked up 2 or 3 yards instead of losing 3 or 4.

The offensive line isn't blocking. The RB's (both Shipp and JJ) aren't running. No doubt the negative things from the backs and O-linemen feed off one another. It's infectious - The backs don't trust their blockers, and the blockers don't feel it's worthwhile to give extra effort if the RB isn't going to take advantage of it.

Nothing succeeds like success. You gotta hope that sometime, somehow we're going to get lucky. A couple of holes will open up and our backs will begin to establish some of that so-called rhythm. So far this hasn't happened. I think it will have to if we're ever going to get our running game on track during the remainder of the season.

Jeff: From what i observe it is going to take at least two years to turn this team around as there are just to many holes to fill. That is if we draft well and sign a few FA who will make a difference. I do not like Green but like someone else posted it makes sense to keep him the full 5 years as we cannot continually change coaches and have each bring in a new system and his type of players. We need some consistency at the top anyway. That is why I would like a strong GM with GM powers as even if we changed coaches he is still the man who pulls the trigger and should be here for years. It is going to take a lot more than luck to make this a competitive team next year. We need OL, DB's, probably a QB, a RB or two, backups everywhere, a TE. The only positions we seem to be settled at is WR and our DE's and a couple of LB's. That is a lot of needs and just cannot be done in one year. I would think we would be lucky to go 8/8 next year. We also could lose some people along the way to FA or injury. I still have my doubts about our on the job training coaches. It would be nice to think we are a player or two away but the reality is we are not.