Interesting Shaq Stats

[newfan101]

For all of those who feel the Suns were fleeced, that Shaq is done ... etc ... I thought you'd like to see these stats from last year and this year.

First, Shaq only played 40 games last year for the 44-38 Heat. In those games, they were 25-15. Without him, they were 19-23.

With the exception of a few games, he sat out the first 40 games of the year, then fully came back on Feb. 1st, at which point the Heat were 20-25. With Shaq back in the line-up, they went on to go 22-10 (A 56 win clip) over the next 32 games, in which he averaged 18.2 and 7.5. However, for a good part of that stretch D Wade was out with an injury. In the games during that stretch when D Wade was out, they were 16-7, and Shaq averaged 19.3 and 7.7. So with D Wade out and Shaq manning the ship, the Heat played their best ball of the year. Those are hardly stats that coincide with a useless player, and this was LAST YEAR.

This year, the Heat are 1-14 without Shaq.

He may be on the decline, but he still makes a huge difference, especially in the W-L column.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I wish I had a fast forward button to after the All Star break so we can see what this team is made of.

 

[French Fries]

I wish I had a fast forward button to after the All Star break so we can see what this team is made of.

i know... even though i can't guarantee the positive outcome of the trade, i'm curious just like everyone. the team without shaq is already enough for the playoffs, what he does is add another dimension to the game of the suns (even "trolls" can't deny that he's the first recognized post player nash-era suns have had). but i'd rather be positive knowing that having shooters and 3 other all-stars in the team would reduce the pressure, thus more focus on doing what he does best, good old fashioned basketbrawl...

 

[AceP]

Let's make the point clearer.

Last season, b4 all-star break, Shaq rested 40 games, it was all Wade and the record was still a couple of games under .500, out of playoff. Right after all-star, Wade caught his disallocated shoulder injury in Houston. Soon after, the best 3p shooter in the team, Jason Kapono was also down by injury. U just don't know how sad it was in Miami in that few weeks, everyone thought the season was over. What actually happened? Shaq lead the team to 10 wins out of next 12 games including a 9w streak. The Heat jumped back to top 4 seeds.

Shaq is a winner, and his season starts after his birthday. Soon u will know how great it is to acquire Shaq right b4 all-star.

 

[rgangel27]

Yup those stats definitely zippered a lot of Shaq doubters out there last year. I cant even remember any body talking crap about Shaq during that stretch even up to the dissappointing playoffs, when Wade got back and Miami got vacuumed by the Bulls.. ( yup Wade was still injured..ok )

 

[arthurracoon]

man, i cant wait to see what happens when he plays!

 

[KANIDJA]

Can somebody look up his numbers when they played San Antonio (also Duncan's number in those games). Also I would love to se how Dallas big men fared in this contest with Heat. I was not able to find these numbers and post them, but I am pretty sure Shaq dominated. Especially in those match ups at the end of the season. I would only look at last two years because this is when "Shaq slowing down" story begins. I think this guy is not slowing down just yet.

 

[Renz]

For all of those who feel the Suns were fleeced, that Shaq is done ... etc ... I thought you'd like to see these stats from last year and this year.

First, Shaq only played 40 games last year for the 44-38 Heat. In those games, they were 25-15. Without him, they were 19-23.

With the exception of a few games, he sat out the first 40 games of the year, then fully came back on Feb. 1st, at which point the Heat were 20-25. With Shaq back in the line-up, they went on to go 22-10 (A 56 win clip) over the next 32 games, in which he averaged 18.2 and 7.5. However, for a good part of that stretch D Wade was out with an injury. In the games during that stretch when D Wade was out, they were 16-7, and Shaq averaged 19.3 and 7.7. So with D Wade out and Shaq manning the ship, the Heat played their best ball of the year. Those are hardly stats that coincide with a useless player, and this was LAST YEAR.

This year, the Heat are 1-14 without Shaq.

He may be on the decline, but he still makes a huge difference, especially in the W-L column.

Here's another stat for you:

2007 Eastern Conference Playoffs, First Round: Chicago 4, Miami 0.

 

[Maligzar]

Here's another stat for you:

2007 Eastern Conference Playoffs, First Round: Chicago 4, Miami 0.

Here's a statement for you.

This is the most talented team Shaq has ever played on.

 

[D-Dogg]

Here's a statement for you.

This is the most talented team Shaq has ever played on.

No, it's not.

Malone, Fisher, Payton, Kobe, Shaq. That was a talented team. Title team, had Malone not gone down.

That's back when Shaq was still on the dominant side of his career, too.

 

[Covert Rain]

No, it's not.

Malone, Fisher, Payton, Kobe, Shaq. That was a talented team. Title team, had Malone not gone down.

That's back when Shaq was still on the dominant side of his career, too.

I think I agree with that. However, that teams lack of success had more to do with chemistry. That team had none. Shaq eluded to that in his press conference when he said that "talent" doesn't always win titles.

This is probably the 2nd most talented team but I think this team has the potential to be the team Shaq had the most chemistry with in a long time. That might be enough.

 

[D-Dogg]

I think I agree with that. However, that teams lack of success had more to do with chemistry. That team had none. Shaq eluded to that in his press conference when he said that "talent" doesn't always win titles.

This is probably the 2nd most talented team but I think this team has the potential to be the team Shaq had the most chemistry with in a long time. That might be enough.

That was also the "trial" year. They went through everything else relatively well though. Kobe and Karl had great rapport. Gary hated the triangle though. Shaq didn't like the more uptempo style they tried to play, but did it anyway.

Shaq might have "chemistry" for a year, but he's a malcontent at heart. I'm not just saying that because I'm bitter. He must be coddled, and hard. Phil knew that, and Phil sacrificed his relationship with Kobe to ensure full Shaq attention and titles. Shaq will have problems with Mike D, I can almost guarantee it. But, if he rides nice for a year and gets a title in Phoenix, then it would be worthwhile.

 

[mojorizen7]

That was also the "trial" year. They went through everything else relatively well though. Kobe and Karl had great rapport. Gary hated the triangle though. Shaq didn't like the more uptempo style they tried to play, but did it anyway.

Shaq might have "chemistry" for a year, but he's a malcontent at heart. I'm not just saying that because I'm bitter. He must be coddled, and hard. Phil knew that, and Phil sacrificed his relationship with Kobe to ensure full Shaq attention and titles. Shaq will have problems with Mike D, I can almost guarantee it. But, if he rides nice for a year and gets a title in Phoenix, then it would be worthwhile.

Mike D may not be here next year IMO.
DA wanted to make it crystal clear to everybody at that 1st press conference that despite bringing in a 320 lb center, he felt we could've won a championship with small ball anyway. It was almost embarrasing.
We've all heard by now how excited DA was to get SHAQ but this trade(now matter how you slice it) is Kerr saying small ball wasn't the answer & this is the 1st step in moving away from it.
It remains to be seen if Mike can make this hybrid ofense work assuming Shaq can get healthy & contribute.

 

[Covert Rain]

That was also the "trial" year. They went through everything else relatively well though. Kobe and Karl had great rapport. Gary hated the triangle though. Shaq didn't like the more uptempo style they tried to play, but did it anyway.

I wanted Gary to get a ring and watched a ton of games during that run. Something always seemed to be off with that team. They seemed out of sync way to often.

Shaq might have "chemistry" for a year, but he's a malcontent at heart. I'm not just saying that because I'm bitter. He must be coddled, and hard. Phil knew that, and Phil sacrificed his relationship with Kobe to ensure full Shaq attention and titles. Shaq will have problems with Mike D, I can almost guarantee it. But, if he rides nice for a year and gets a title in Phoenix, then it would be worthwhile.

I think it's funny you view Shaq as a malcontent. I think Kobe was the catalyst for many of the problems that happened, including Shaq getting traded and his falling out with Phil Jackson. I still believe that to this day. Kobe has had just as much if not more episodes involving his character then Shaq.

 

[BigShtank]

I wish I had a fast forward button to after the All Star break so we can see what this team is made of.

Agreed, I just want people to shut up about how bad they think the trade was. This period right now is like Christmas when I was 8 and I knew I was getting an Atari 2600 for Xmas, but it was two weeks away.

I'm pulling a Cartman and freezing myself. Somebody come up to flag in two weeks to thaw me out.

 

[earthsci]

Agreed, I just want people to shut up about how bad they think the trade was.

I don't. Keep saying it. Write more articles on ESPN.com and CNN/SI. Tons of it. Especially Lakers fans. Keep it coming. Piss Shaq right off.

 

[Maligzar]

No, it's not.

Malone, Fisher, Payton, Kobe, Shaq. That was a talented team. Title team, had Malone not gone down.

That's back when Shaq was still on the dominant side of his career, too.

Amare is far more talented now, than Malone was that year.
Hill is better than Fisher
Nash is better than Payton
Kobe is better than Raja, I'll give you the nod there.
Shaq back then was better than any Shaq we get today, but that's a little silly of a comparison anyway and has nothing to do with my statement of talent surrounding Shaq.

Leandro Barbosa and Boris Diaw are far better than anyone the Lakers had coming off the bench that year.

It's not even close. Shaq has never played with a point guard on the level of Steve Nash. He's never had a power forward on par with Amare Stoudemire. He's never had a guy coming off the bench like Leandro.

This is by far the most talented team he has played with.

Shaq has never been on a team where he's not the driving force. He's on one now.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No, it's not.

Malone, Fisher, Payton, Kobe, Shaq. That was a talented team. Title team, had Malone not gone down.

That's back when Shaq was still on the dominant side of his career, too.

eh, i'm not so certain 'cuz malone and payton were okay players, but waaaay beyond their primes and basically were fairly close to cooked.

if you match 'em up it goes something like this:

nash >>> fisher
bell > payton
hill <<< kobe
amare >> malone
shaq <<< shaq

eh, comes out about equal overall. who was the lakers' 6th and 7th men to match up with barbs and diaw?

 

[AsUdUdE]

No, it's not.

Malone, Fisher, Payton, Kobe, Shaq. That was a talented team. Title team, had Malone not gone down.

That's back when Shaq was still on the dominant side of his career, too.

Lets look at this...

Nash VS Payton/Fisher
HUGE edge to Nash

Kobe VS Bell
Huge Edge to Kobe

Hill VS Devon George
Edge to Hill

Amare VS Malone
Pretty solid Edge to Amare

Barbosa/Diaw/Skinner VS Rush/Fox/Mevendelko
Edge to Phoenix

The total: 4-1 in favor of the suns....

When looking STRICTLY at the players that suround him....This team is the most TALENTED team Shaq has EVER played on... period....

 

[AceP]

Can somebody look up his numbers when they played San Antonio (also Duncan's number in those games). Also I would love to se how Dallas big men fared in this contest with Heat. I was not able to find these numbers and post them, but I am pretty sure Shaq dominated. Especially in those match ups at the end of the season. I would only look at last two years because this is when "Shaq slowing down" story begins. I think this guy is not slowing down just yet.

U can't say he still dominate them, only occassionally, but he can pretty much control all of them.

Spurs @ Heat Shaq 17 + 3, Duncan 12 + 8, Oberto were sent to bench by fouls, Duncan were forced to defende Shaq for the rest of game.
Heat @ Knicks Shaq 14 + 8 + 3 blocks, Curry 19 + 6
Rockets @ Heat Shaq 26 + 14 + 3 blocks, Yao 20 + 7 + foul out. I watched that game, Yao scored mostly on Zo.
Heat @ Orlando Shaq 20 + 6, Dwight Howard 17 + 13, Dwight was assigned to defende Shaq, his score came when Shaq sit.
Heat @ Clippers Shaq 8 + 8, Kaman 14 + 12, defending Kaman, Shaq struggled a bit at the beginning of the game
Bulls @ Heat Shaq 24 + 10, Ben 7 + 7


Be aware, in a lot of these games, opponent C played a couple of more minutes than Shaq. And a Shaq in Nov, Dec, is a 60% Shaq, don't pay too much attention here. He always raise his game after all-star break.

 

[BigShtank]

U can't say he still dominate them, only occassionally, but he can pretty much control all of them.

Spurs @ Heat Shaq 17 + 3, Duncan 12 + 8, Oberto were sent to bench by fouls, Duncan were forced to defende Shaq for the rest of game.
Heat @ Knicks Shaq 14 + 8 + 3 blocks, Curry 19 + 6
Rockets @ Heat Shaq 26 + 14 + 3 blocks, Yao 20 + 7 + foul out. I watched that game, Yao scored mostly on Zo.
Heat @ Orlando Shaq 20 + 6, Dwight Howard 17 + 13, Dwight was assigned to defende Shaq, his score came when Shaq sit.
Heat @ Clippers Shaq 8 + 8, Kaman 14 + 12, defending Kaman, Shaq struggled a bit at the beginning of the game
Bulls @ Heat Shaq 24 + 10, Ben 7 + 7


Be aware, in a lot of these games, opponent C played a couple of more minutes than Shaq. And a Shaq in Nov, Dec, is a 60% Shaq, don't pay too much attention here. He always raise his game after all-star break.

Good work AceP, this made me feel even better about the trade than I already did.


I'm watching pregame right now and it's bizarre seeing Marion in a Heat shirt on a Heat background.

 

[D-Dogg]

I think it's funny you view Shaq as a malcontent. I think Kobe was the catalyst for many of the problems that happened, including Shaq getting traded and his falling out with Phil Jackson. I still believe that to this day. Kobe has had just as much if not more episodes involving his character then Shaq.

That's because you haven't really looked deeper at the situation. Read a couple of Lazenby books...Mad Game: The NBA Education of Kobe Bryant and The Show.

Shaq getting traded was on him and not Kobe. From jump, Shaq alienated the weird new introverted showboat youngster. He wanted someone he could win with right away. He wanted Kobe traded and demanded it many times. Kobe was the first to call Phil when he came, and was stoked about having him as coach. Then Phil realized he had to play to Shaq's ego, and to do so meant further riding Kobe. Kobe swallowed all this up, pouted occasionally but took it. Then he blew up in the great ESPN interview with Jim Gray. I swear to God, I never could have been bottled up for that long. Kobe has his flaws, for sure...they are huge. But he's a damn hard worker and he had zero respect for Shaq's lazy attitude. Since Kobe is such a guarded person and Shaq is the class clown, the media loved Shaq and ran with his stuff. Kobe sure isn't loved for his personality but Shaq is. Hell, I love Shaq's personality.


Re: the trade...Lazenby's blog today:

When he was young and athletic, O’Neal declined to run with the Lakers and fought an impressive internal fight to make sure Phil Jackson’s team turned down fastbreak opportunities to wait for O’Neal to lumber up the floor to get in position in the half court.

The results spoke for themselves.

Shaq’s power and Kobe Bryant’s athleticism drove L.A. to those three titles to open the new century. But O’Neal demanded $30 million a year from owner Jerry Buss in 2004, and when Buss wouldn’t pay it, O’Neal demanded a trade. He later signed with the Miami Heat for $20 mil per season, a deal the Lakers likely would have taken if they had been offered it.

Oh, the infamous interview:

Kobe critical of Shaq's leadership
ESPN.com news services

Updated: October 28, 2003, 4:04 PM ET
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The transcript of Kobe Bryant's interview with ESPN's Jim Gray:

GRAY: What was your reaction to Shaq saying the Lakers are his team, and everybody knows it?

BRYANT: It doesn't matter whose team it is. Nobody cares. I don't, Karl [Malone] doesn't, Gary [Payton] doesn't, and our teammates and the fans don't either. There's more to life than whose team this is. But this is his team, so it's time for him to act like it. That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. Also, "my team" doesn't mean only when we win; it means carrying the burden of defeat just as gracefully as you carry a championship trophy.


GRAY: Do you consider Shaq to be a leader?

BRYANT: Leaders don't beg for a contract extension and negotiate some 30 million [dollars] plus per year deal in the media when we have two future Hall of Famers playing here pretty much for free. A leader would not demand the ball every time down the floor when you have the three of us [Malone, Payton, Bryant] playing beside you, not to mention the teammates you have gone to war with for years -- and, by the way, then threaten not to play defense and rebound if you don't get the ball every time down the floor.

GRAY: Shaq says that you have not been a team player. Is he right?

BRYANT: That's ridiculous. I have been successfully sacrificing my game for years for Shaq. That's what Phil [Jackson] wanted me to do, so I did it. Last year Phil told me Shaq was not in physical condition to carry the trust of our offense, so he asked me to do it. But then he saw Shaq was getting upset that the team wasn't running through him, so Phil asked me to pull back and I did. This year is no different; my role is whatever Phil wants it to be. Period.

GRAY: Through out the preseason, your leg and conditioning has been lagging. Are you in the proper shape to start the season?

BRYANT: My knee is not strong enough to play yet. I know it. When it is I will play.

GRAY: Does that mean you will miss the opener [Tuesday] night and other games?

BRYANT: I probably won't play tomorrow night or until I'm ready. But I don't need Shaq's advice on how to play hurt. I've played with IVs before, during and after games. I've played with a broken hand, a sprained ankle, a torn shoulder, a fractured tooth, a severed lip, and a knee the size of a softball. I don't miss 15 games because of a toe injury that everybody knows wasn't that serious in the first place.

GRAY: Kobe, Shaq said if you didn't like what he had to say you can opt out and leave next season. Will you leave the Lakers?

BRYANT: I won't make that decision until the end of the season. I told Shaq last year that I was planning on opting out. He knew before anyone. I told him out of respect for what we have been through together. I thought he should be the first to know. The fact that he acts like this is such a big shock is a mystery to me. If leaving the Lakers at the end of the season is what I decide, a major reason for that will be Shaq's childlike selfishness and jealousy.

GRAY: Do you feel Shaq has been supportive in regards to your legal situation?

BRYANT: He is not my quote unquote "big brother." A big brother would have called to lend his support this summer. I heard absolutely nothing from him. I spoke to Devean [George], Rick [Fox], Mitch [Kupchak], Phil, and our owner Jerry Buss. And Shaq's own Uncle Jerome called and left three messages. Other teammates like Derek [Fisher], Mark [Madsen], and [Stanislav Medvedenko] left messages as well. Opponents called like [Chris] Webber, [Mike] Bibby, and many others. So did a lot of coaches. Michael Jordan, who didn't have my home phone, tracked it down to lend his support. So did Tiger Woods. But yet from my so-called big brother, I heard nothing.

GRAY: Why not resolve this behind closed doors? Why is this so public?

BRYANT: I asked Phil on Sunday [yesterday] to say something to calm this situation down before it boiled over. But he backed away, so now here we are. I have been a bigger person every time something happened with Shaq, and I don't expect this to be any different. But somebody in this organization had to speak up, because his unprofessionalism hurt us last year, and I don't want it to hurt us this year.

You can't put all that on Kobe, even if you tried. That was some clear, clear pent up anger.

 

[AceP]

Hey, all the suns need from Shaq is to be a good role player. Why post this nonsense here?

If ur laker fans think the Suns r doomed by this trade, u should be happy drinking in ur own bar. Why bother come here?

 

[D-Dogg]

Hey, all the suns need from Shaq is to be a good role player. Why post this nonsense here?

If ur laker fans think the Suns r doomed by this trade, u should be happy drinking in ur own bar. Why bother come here?

Relax Shaq fan. Or become a fan of other Arizona Sports teams, like the Cardinals.

I happen to like these particular Suns fans.

 

[MiamiHeat]

First, Shaq only played 40 games last year for the 44-38 Heat. In those games, they were 25-15. Without him, they were 19-23.

You are all wrong.. this is actually evidence AGAINST Shaq......

because Shaq did NOT play in those games does not mean anything, because he is taking up 20 million dollars of talent cap space. so basically, all you are doing is comparing HEAT with Shaq to HEAT with a 20million dollar salary hole.

If HEAT filled that 20 million hole for games without Shaq, then that would be a better comparison.

but the comparison you used is wrong. the HEAT could use 20 mil in cap salary to sign other players and then they won't be 19-23, now would they? Shaq missing the games is hurtful, and to be honest....

the only difference between HEAT with Shaq and HEAT with a 20 million dollar hole (w/o Shaq) is 6 wins?

This is more damning evidence AGAINST Shaq than anything I said here.