Interesting Stuff on the Radio

[cepstrum]

I got this off the espn board. The poster is legit.

------
1150a.m.

some of the comments I was going to post........a few of you already beat me to.

anyways:

appearently the Suns, Lakers and Kings have already inquired about Nene. They say the word out of Denver is that the incident between Martin and Nene was not significant enough to send Nene packing....but the two will be monitored as the season progresses (I think they mean Nene will be monitored, becuase I doubt Martin is going anywhere).

They said reports out of Phoenix were that the Suns seem to have started out with a bang. Competitiveness, comraderee and chemistry have been established rather quick.

and the puncher (two different sources posted the same thing......espn insider said Nash has not been able to guard Barbosa. Nash in a chat said he thinks barbosa will be a top guard in the league soon)

They said almost verbatum that the word coming out of Phoenix was that in initial scrimmages the most dominant player has not been Amare, or Matrix...........its been Leandrhino Barbosa. They said his speed has allowed him to get a shot virtually whenever he wanted, he's been very aggressive with the ball, and that most of his shots have been going through the net.

 

[elindholm]

Sounds good, but remember that the Suns -- and most of all Nash -- can't really guard anybody, so it's not that significant that Barbosa is unstoppable in scrimages.

 

[scotsman13]

Sounds good, but remember that the Suns -- and most of all Nash -- can't really guard anybody, so it's not that significant that Barbosa is unstoppable in scrimages.

god elindholm do you always have to be so nagitive? i dont think i have seen you make one post in a very long time that didnt blast the suns or their player in ages.

 

[cepstrum]

Sounds good, but remember that the Suns -- and most of all Nash -- can't really guard anybody, so it's not that significant that Barbosa is unstoppable in scrimages.

All these guys are in the NBA and whether you think so or not, the fact that barbosa is apparently burning the rest of the guys is really exciting. It's funny that the glass is always half empty with you though

 

[PhxGametime]

Nash is an excellent full court defender but has struggled with penetration and Barbosa penetrated well last year but didn't finish at times and didn't have a mid-range game - I read on 1 of these boards, that Barbosa has developed a floater (I believe?) and he was topnotch from 3PT last year. He also scores well off defense (steals) and does have experience this year... either way I've been high on Barbosa since USA/Brazil game (before his rookie year) and I'd like to think that it's Barbosa's offense, rather than Nash's lack of defense but who knows

 

[George O'Brien]

I never had any doubt that Leandro could score. The key will be whether he can run the offense. Reports from summer league suggest he will be vastly better as a PG than last season, but only time will tell if that translates into strong league play.

 

[sly fly]

Big mistake to ask L. Barbosa to become a true PG.

He's a hybrid guard. Can defend all PG's, and most 2's. Let him dictate.

Undoubtedly will become a premier defender in this league. Once he harnesses the finer aspects of offense, he will be a BITCH to guard.

Anybody who disputes this, is either...

- A poor judge of talent.
- Never touched a ball in their lives.
- Hasn't seen Barbosa play.

Can't teach quickness, D, length, and a non-stop motor.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

god elindholm do you always have to be so nagitive? i dont think i have seen you make one post in a very long time that didnt blast the suns or their player in ages.

A touch of realism is nice once and a while. EVERYONE has agreed this team will be exciting, and they will throw points on the board. However, those same people question the teams ability to stop people and their depth up front.

It is a very good point. I hadn't looked at it that way, although to gain some perspective I should. Barbosa needs to play against defensive minded guards to judge how good he is.

 

[The Commish]

appearently the Suns, Lakers and Kings have already inquired about Nene.

Ahhhhh let the proposed trades for Nene begin once again...

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Ahhhhh let the proposed trades for Nene begin once again...

To tell you the truth, I can't think of a player I would want to give up for him that they would take. At this point, I wouldn't give them JJ, which is who they would want.

 

[NastyOne]

To tell you the truth, I can't think of a player I would want to give up for him that they would take. At this point, I wouldn't give them JJ, which is who they would want.

Maybe you would'nt but i think BC would

Swingmen are easier to find than bigmen

And if Denver wanted JJ for Nene, you have to pull the trigger.

Plus with our depth at the 2-3 position, it would not only give more playing time to Richardson,Barbosa and Jacobsen but also fill our weakest position.

And neither the Lakers or Kings have enough to trade for Nene...Well atleast anything as good as JJ.

So if Denver really wanted to move Nene, then JJ and a future 1st would probably get the deal done.

 

[slinslin]

Cedric Ceballos and Tom Leander made a good point on media day. It's tough for Amare to dominate in scrimmages because he gets hacked and there are no refs and the zone.

 

[scotsman13]

A touch of realism is nice once and a while.

It is a very good point. I hadn't looked at it that way, although to gain some perspective I should. Barbosa needs to play against defensive minded guards to judge how good he is.

if it was just against nash then then maybe there is reason to give those words some doubt but he ripped the summer play. during the summer play he show a couple things that we hadnt seen before including a mid range game and the ability to get past anyone that even thought of guarding him. he also showed a lot better control on the defensive end of the court.


as far as how bad or good of a defender nash is, i think that there is a lot of questions about that. in dallas as a team they werent playing any defense, it started with the coach and went down from there. when nash was with the suns the first time one of the things that made the fans like him here was his gritty play, both on the offense and defense, he tired. now i am not saying nash is going to be a great defender or even a good one but he will work at it. he will have problems will the quicker guards he face.

so not only is it unfair to start blasting the team before they have even played a game but to discount all the reports from during the summer just shows a person who views the glass as half empty. give the suns some credit they have worked hard to put a team out there that is going to be good and more importantly grow together. i am not saying they are perfect but i am saying we shouldnt dismiss them out of hand.

 

[slinslin]

Anyone want to guess what we offered for Nene? I doubt it's JJ. I don't think Nene is worth JJ.
Maybe Zarko, Casey, Milos and Chicagos pick?

Nene is about the same heigth as Amare, soft as they come and not the hardest worker.

 

[George O'Brien]

I think everyone is being a bit hard on Eric. Yeh, he can get into a negitive riff from time to time, but his point was well taken. Practicing against teammates is hardly a test of true skill and Nash has a history of struggling to defend really quick guys. It is encouraging to hear Leandro is doing well, but it's still early days.

As a general rule, fans are either excessivly optimistic or pessimistic. "An emerging super star" one week will described as "terrible and hopeless" the next. Eric may throw his share of cold water, but he is pretty good about shooting down ultra negitive comments as well.

Now, about Leandro's chances of making the all star team...

 

[elindholm]

As a general rule, fans are either excessivly optimistic or pessimistic.

Thanks, in general, but I have to disagree with this.

I am neither optimistic nor pessmistic. I'm pretty much right in the middle. There are some very pessimistic posters on this board, and I won't call them out, but I think most of us know who they are.

But, to the supreme optimist, someone in the middle looks like a pessimist. I say this all the time, but some of you really would learn a lot reading message boards for other teams. Every team has glowing reports about how good such-and-such young player is looking in scrimmage. Every team has high hopes for their recent draft picks. Every team thinks they can compete for a high playoff spot if "we stay healthy" and "a few things fall into place."

A bunch of people sitting around giving each other high fives and fantasizing about how awesome the team is going to be don't, actually, tell you anything about the team, because every team has those groups. If you really want to have an idea of how the Suns might do, you have to cut through the propaganda and all of the feel-good reports.

If someone wants to dream for a 50-win season, go ahead. But don't come crying when you realize how unrealistic those dreams were.

 

[scotsman13]

personally i am not looking for a 50 win season. i think that this team will win right around 43 game and take the 8th spot in the playoffs. if their match up is the spur (the team i think will win it all this year) we'll give them a very hard time (every game will be close) and run them up to 4-2 before they move on.

this team is 2 year away from really making a run for a championship. as amare goes so goes this team. until amare learns how creat for others this team isnt going to win a much and even then until they really rebound and play better defense with the nba's best do i see them being able be fitted for any rings. but all of this doesnt mean i wont watch every game i can and cheer for the team.

yes elindholm you are not the worst on the board but when the parade is just about to start it is it so hard to bring both sides onto your posts? the suns will be a fun and enjoyable team to watch this year. there is a lot of promising (yes it means that they really havent done anything yet) young player on this team but we have some good things out of them. like the fact that they are all hard workers and how about the fact that no one on the team got busted this off season (or in the case of the blazers was in shooting).

 

[elindholm]

but when the parade is just about to start it is it so hard to bring both sides onto your posts?

Don't we have the "good news" already well represented? Why should I (or anyone) just say, "Yep, that's some good news all right"? What would that add?

Gee, maybe I should just start posting thumbs-up smilies with no additional comment at all. That sure promotes engaging discussion.

If I were the first to find some good news, I'd post it. And if someone has already been "negative" before me, I'll usually keep quiet.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Anyone want to guess what we offered for Nene? I doubt it's JJ. I don't think Nene is worth JJ.
Maybe Zarko, Casey, Milos and Chicagos pick?

Nene is about the same heigth as Amare, soft as they come and not the hardest worker.

you're crazy. nene was a lotto pick who many saw as raw. potential is still the word. and he is BIG potential (as in size). jj is still largely unproven. jj for nene is not insane. the package that you put together is garbage. jmho.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

you're crazy. nene was a lotto pick who many saw as raw. potential is still the word. and he is BIG potential (as in size). jj is still largely unproven. jj for nene is not insane. the package that you put together is garbage. jmho.

Just to comment, JJ was also a lotto pick. Many people also thought it would take him some time to develope since he came out after a freshman season. JJ has shown a lot more than Nene has to date. Both players have near the same sort of potential, although Nene has like 3 inches on him.

The biggest difference for me is that JJ is a workhorse. Nene has started to get a reputation as being lazy. I agree that Denver wouldnt take the other package, but I wouldnt offer up JJ for him.

I don't see a way a deal can get done. IMO, no way BC does a JJ for Nene trade.

 

[slinslin]

Umm fine, I mean I will just happily keep a likely top 7 pick and draft a real center instead trading for Nene.

The only benefit would be that Nene could help the Suns right now.

And newsbreak, Joe Johnson was a lottery pick as well and has definately proven more than Nene has right now.
I think JJ has a much better chance to become a NBA allstar than Nene. Really I don't think Nene will ever come close to making an allstar game unless he is listed as a C and the position is very very thin.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just to comment, JJ was also a lotto pick. Many people also thought it would take him some time to develope since he came out after a freshman season. JJ has shown a lot more than Nene has to date. Both players have near the same sort of potential, although Nene has like 3 inches on him.

The biggest difference for me is that JJ is a workhorse. Nene has started to get a reputation as being lazy. I agree that Denver wouldnt take the other package, but I wouldnt offer up JJ for him.

I don't see a way a deal can get done. IMO, no way BC does a JJ for Nene trade.

yeah, good points. in the end though, a solid (not even a star) center is worth so much more than a lower-tier star guard it's not even funny. particularly in today's ridiculous contracts for the foyles of the world marketplace.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Exactly. You will have to pay him way more than he is worth. Combine that with the fact he isn't really a center. IIRC he is slightly shorter than Amare, although he has longer arms. He has more weight, but it isn't pure muscle like Amare and JJ.

Not to mention Nene has an extremely limited offensive game at this point. There is a reason why the Nuggets traded for Martin (who is good, but not a great PF).

It would be much better for the team to trade for a semi established role playing center using other pieces. That, or like Slin said, try to draft one next season. We already have 3 project big men on this roster, we do not need another one. I want the Suns to get an established player for the middle, or make do with what they have.

Trading away talent for size rarely ends in a positive note.

 

[Errntknght]

I guess I'd better bail Eric out... not that he'll be happy about it.

It's going to be a painful, depressing season. Oh, I expect it will start out pretty well while other teams are thinking the Suns are the same doormat as last year but once our opponents start bringing their A-game, wins will come infrequently against good teams. Especially the ones that play solid defense. Sure, we'll feast on the weaker teams and everyone will talking about how much we've improved - the team brass will probably be tickled pink about it.

What's really depressing, at least to me, is that it means if everything goes well the Suns will rise to their former position - a team that does well in the regular season but underachieves in the playoffs. I've seen enough of that to last a couple of lifetimes. This team is so like the previous ones that came up just short, it's like they had the old recipe and followed it to the letter. (Let's see, we start with a coach who knows and cares little about defense, add sparkling guard play, and lots of big marshmellows for the middle.)

 

[devilalum]

As a general rule, fans are either excessivly optimistic or pessimistic.

Thanks, in general, but I have to disagree with this.

I am neither optimistic nor pessmistic. I'm pretty much right in the middle. There are some very pessimistic posters on this board, and I won't call them out, but I think most of us know who they are.

But, to the supreme optimist, someone in the middle looks like a pessimist. I say this all the time, but some of you really would learn a lot reading message boards for other teams. Every team has glowing reports about how good such-and-such young player is looking in scrimmage. Every team has high hopes for their recent draft picks. Every team thinks they can compete for a high playoff spot if "we stay healthy" and "a few things fall into place."

A bunch of people sitting around giving each other high fives and fantasizing about how awesome the team is going to be don't, actually, tell you anything about the team, because every team has those groups. If you really want to have an idea of how the Suns might do, you have to cut through the propaganda and all of the feel-good reports.

If someone wants to dream for a 50-win season, go ahead. But don't come crying when you realize how unrealistic those dreams were.

I find that most pessimists believe they are realists.

Self reflection is usually too subjective.