Interesting Stuff on the Radio

[devilalum]

I guess I'd better bail Eric out... not that he'll be happy about it.

It's going to be a painful, depressing season. Oh, I expect it will start out pretty well while other teams are thinking the Suns are the same doormat as last year but once our opponents start bringing their A-game, wins will come infrequently against good teams. Especially the ones that play solid defense. Sure, we'll feast on the weaker teams and everyone will talking about how much we've improved - the team brass will probably be tickled pink about it.

What's really depressing, at least to me, is that it means if everything goes well the Suns will rise to their former position - a team that does well in the regular season but underachieves in the playoffs. I've seen enough of that to last a couple of lifetimes. This team is so like the previous ones that came up just short, it's like they had the old recipe and followed it to the letter. (Let's see, we start with a coach who knows and cares little about defense, add sparkling guard play, and lots of big marshmellows for the middle.)

The difference I see is that the Suns never had a PF with Amare's poential.

He may turn out to be a very good player ( I'd say this is already true) but he just might be the superstar power player the Suns never had on those teams you're talking about. I certainly wouldn't ever classify him as a marshmellow. He has a real nasty streak.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Exactly. You will have to pay him way more than he is worth. Combine that with the fact he isn't really a center. IIRC he is slightly shorter than Amare, although he has longer arms. He has more weight, but it isn't pure muscle like Amare and JJ.

Not to mention Nene has an extremely limited offensive game at this point. There is a reason why the Nuggets traded for Martin (who is good, but not a great PF).

It would be much better for the team to trade for a semi established role playing center using other pieces. That, or like Slin said, try to draft one next season. We already have 3 project big men on this roster, we do not need another one. I want the Suns to get an established player for the middle, or make do with what they have.

Trading away talent for size rarely ends in a positive note.

i don't disagree with anything that you said. i was merely commenting on the fact that the grab-bag of suns "stuff" wasn't gonna be enough to nab nene.

i'm not convinced i would trade jj for nene, but the thought is intriguiging. i only say this b/c we acquired q this year, otherwise i wouldn't even entertain the thought.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I find that most pessimists believe they are realists.

Self reflection is usually too subjective.

funny, i find that most pessimists, when it comes to sports, are a lot closer to realists than are the optimists. it's the nature of the arena. sports is a win-lose situation. not everyone can win. most will lose. hence the pessimists being correct more often than the optimists.

 

[jbeecham]

IIRC nene is slightly shorter than Amare, although he has longer arms. He has more weight, but it isn't pure muscle like Amare and JJ.

Actually Nene is listed at 6-11, 260lbs. Even if that is in shoes then it would make him slightly taller than Amare. Also, I would say that Nene most definately could be a center. The only reason he started at PF is because the Nuggets have Camby and had no other solution at PF other than Tskitishvili. I didn't watch Nugget Games last year unless they were playing the Suns, but I would guess that Nene guarded most of the bigger centers in the league last year because Camby is only 225lbs and injury prone.

If the Suns had a way to get Nene by only giving up some combination of Casey, Eisley, Zarko, Vujanic, Tabuse or Vroman then that would be fine with me. I don't think I'd want to include the Chicago pick, unless it was the Chicago pick (likely in the 4-6 range) and 1 of those guys for Nene (probably Casey because the only SG listed on their roster is Voshon Leonard).

edit: obviously Casey alone doesn't make the trade work salary-wise and Zarko, Voshkul or the rights to Vujanic would have to be included.

 

[George O'Brien]

I guess I'd better bail Eric out... not that he'll be happy about it.

It's going to be a painful, depressing season. Oh, I expect it will start out pretty well while other teams are thinking the Suns are the same doormat as last year but once our opponents start bringing their A-game, wins will come infrequently against good teams. Especially the ones that play solid defense. Sure, we'll feast on the weaker teams and everyone will talking about how much we've improved - the team brass will probably be tickled pink about it.

What's really depressing, at least to me, is that it means if everything goes well the Suns will rise to their former position - a team that does well in the regular season but underachieves in the playoffs. I've seen enough of that to last a couple of lifetimes. This team is so like the previous ones that came up just short, it's like they had the old recipe and followed it to the letter. (Let's see, we start with a coach who knows and cares little about defense, add sparkling guard play, and lots of big marshmellows for the middle.)

Obviously there are innumerable things that could go wrong. In any case, at the end of the season there are 29 pathetic losers who couldn't win the championship. That's sports.

Does it make sense to talk of anything other than whether the Suns can win it all? I think so. For the Suns, making the playoffs would be a huge accomplishment because there are 12-14 teams that are legitimate playoff contenders in the West. With the level of competition, 45 to 48 wins would be huge.

I don't think these are unrealistic expectations. The Suns are very athletic and have a respectable level of depth. They will score a lot of points and have the athleticism to actually play some defense. I think their defense will improve a lot, but not enough to make them an especially strong defensive team. But perhaps enough to help them win a few 105-101 games.

 

[devilalum]

funny, i find that most pessimists, when it comes to sports, are a lot closer to realists than are the optimists. it's the nature of the arena. sports is a win-lose situation. not everyone can win. most will lose. hence the pessimists being correct more often than the optimists.

What do you mean, the exact same number win and lose?

I said that pessimists BELIEVE they are realists.

 

[elindholm]

I find that most pessimists believe they are realists.

Self reflection is usually too subjective.

Wise guy, huh?

Do you want to predict how many games the Suns will win this year? You be the optimist, I'll be the pessimist, and we'll see who comes closer.

Scottsman13 said 43 and the eighth playoff seed, and I think 43 wins probably isn't too far off, but I don't think that number will make the playoffs.

For the sake of argument, though, I'll take 40 wins, even though that's a little more pessimistic than my gut tells me. What's your call?

 

[slinslin]

51 sounds good to me, 1st in the pacific.

 

[devilalum]

I find that most pessimists believe they are realists.

Self reflection is usually too subjective.

Wise guy, huh?

Do you want to predict how many games the Suns will win this year? You be the optimist, I'll be the pessimist, and we'll see who comes closer.

Scottsman13 said 43 and the eighth playoff seed, and I think 43 wins probably isn't too far off, but I don't think that number will make the playoffs.

For the sake of argument, though, I'll take 40 wins, even though that's a little more pessimistic than my gut tells me. What's your call?

At least 48!

 

[elindholm]

At least 48!

Okay, you're on. Now we'll see who the "realist" is.

Someone's going to keep track of this, right? I hope no one's expecting me to remember.

My last public challenge on this board was with F-Dog over the relative salaries that Dampier and Okur would draw this year. That ended up as a push, as near as we can tell. So I guess that means the Suns are destined for 44 wins, since that would be right in the middle of devilalum's and my predictions. Then the question is, does 44 wins make the playoffs?

 

[PhxGametime]

81-1 (overtime lose) 46-36? I think I'm into the Suns as much as anybody, not sure if I'm too optimistic but I do like the team a lot this year. Steven Hunter might turn into a below average/average center but I've always liked athletes (team has a whole bunch) and I'm beginning to open up to shooters (team has plenty).

Draft time I look for athletic, length/size, defensive, stat fillers - IMO team has plenty at 1-4 positions (Nash all but defensive... Barbosa, Johnson, Richardson, Marion, Stoudemire... Hunter being all those but stat filler). Jacobsen, Lampe, Cabarkapa, Vroman, Voskuhl aren't bad athletes themselves at their positions (Jacobsen being the least) and all have a role on team... I guess I am homer but I don't believe Suns are a stud Center away from Playoffs but another body at F/C (Eisley trade possibly )...

 

[George O'Brien]

I see the range as being between 40 to 50 wins assuming there are no major injuries. 50 is not out of reach, but several guys will have to really pick up their games to make it. I would be disappointed with 40, but this is a young team and young teams go into slumps when everyone plays badly. I just hope that Nash can keep those stretches to a minimum.