Is Grimm a good OL coach?

[joeshmo]

Someone educate me becuase after my initial glee I did research on him and I didnt come away all that impressed.

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.php

Ranks his OL this year at 22nd in run and 25th in pass.
We were ranked 23rd in run and 15th in pass

In 2005

Pitts OL was 12th in run and 23rd in pass.
We were ranked 32nd in run and 12th in pass.

Now using raw data not in the footballoutsiders style straight stats from NFL.com -

Pitt allowed 1 sack per just under 11 pass attempts.
We allowed 1 sack per just over 15 pass attempts.

Pitt has also average a YPC of 4.2(2006) and 4.0 in (2005). Good but not exactly the stellar run game I was thinking of Pitt having. Although they did run a ton(more then any other team during that time period) of times at a consistent 4 yard clip which is sort of impressive, but not as impressive as I was expecting, and their pass block looks to me down right crap, IMO.

Am I missing something here not seen by the info laid out above, or is my concern about the pass blocking ability under a Grimm coached OL a valid one. I think our OL will committ fewer penalties and raise their run blocking by a full yard average, but I think we could be in for a big step backwards in terms of pass blocking and I am concerned with Matt behind that type of OL that Grimm had in Pitt.

Educate me those of you that know more about Pitt. I know stats can mislead so Am I wrong.

 

[joeshmo]

Also, on many a Pitt message board many are not all that sad to see him go as their OL coach.

Now that could just be the usuall, "well he isnt on our team anymore so he must suck" routine all fans do. didnt feel like going back any further to find out if they felt taht way before he left.

 

[NMCard]

I hope he can improve the numbers from what he did in Pittsburg. The cards quarterback is very fragile and he is going to need the line to do there jobs.

 

[Red Hawk]

Also, on many a Pitt message board many are not all that sad to see him go as their OL coach.

Now that could just be the usuall, "well he isnt on our team anymore so he must suck" routine all fans do. didnt feel like going back any further to find out if they felt taht way before he left.

On a Pitt newspaper link most were upset and poll on the site had slightly more people wishing Grimm had become HC than the Viking guy.

 

[Twist18]

I think he will teach the guys how to power block in the run game but his pass blocking isnt a strong suit. The Cards have pretty good pass blockers, they just take strange angles run blocking. The biggest thing he will give the OLine is a very nasty attitude.

 

[HoodieBets]

Im not too impressed with him either. Better than what we had yes but dosent look like the next coming.

 

[hafey]

I think the value of Grimm is much less the position which he will be coaching and much more about his personality. Grimm, will make the entire Cardinals team more disciplined, metally tough, and better coached. It is those skills, not his with the OL that made him a head coaching candidate.

 

[perivolaki]

Just to have guy walking around with rings on his fingers is a good thing.

 

[Redsz]

Educate me those of you that know more about Pitt. I know stats can mislead so Am I wrong.

All very good points, Joe. But I think we have to look past the raw numbers here.

In regards to the pass blocking, what type of linemen would you classify the Steelers as having? I certainly wouldn't say agile pass blockers. They run a power blocking scheme with physical linemen and with the Steelers throwing more, they struggled. I also wouldn't under-estimate the 'inflation' of those numbers with Ben Rothlisberger moving out of the pocket to try and make plays.

What impresses me is numbers like 4.42 YPC up the middle (48% of the time) with a back like Willie Parker. THAT is impressive. That tells me the Steelers said 'we are running the ball right at you, can you stop us?'. And most of the time the answer has been 'no'.

Also look at how consistently well the Steelers have run the ball in every direction:

Left End: 4.02
Left Tackle:4.06
Mid/Guard:4.43
Right Tackle:3.66
Right End:4.05

4 out of 5 times they pick up 4 yds. Also consider that every team will look at the Steelers and say 'we have to stop the run'. Compare this with us were we only get 4 YPC running behind BIG or up the middle.

The type of mentality and scheme Grimm and Whiz are going to bring to the OL will be PERFECT for Brown, Leckey and Duece. Those three love being physical. IF Grimm can get inside BIG's head he will also be in the same mold of those three.

As Duckjake pointed out awhile ago, this team on offense has been trying to be something it's not. You have a line that has physical players, three WR's who are physical and a power back in Edge. And what did we try and do? Be a finesse team! We aren't geared for that. I can't wait to see this offense come out and smack a defense in the mouth.

 

[Covert Rain]

All very good points, Joe. But I think we have to look past the raw numbers here.

In regards to the pass blocking, what type of linemen would you classify the Steelers as having? I certainly wouldn't say agile pass blockers. They run a power blocking scheme with physical linemen and with the Steelers throwing more, they struggled. I also wouldn't under-estimate the 'inflation' of those numbers with Ben Rothlisberger moving out of the pocket to try and make plays.

What impresses me is numbers like 4.42 YPC up the middle (48% of the time) with a back like Willie Parker. THAT is impressive. That tells me the Steelers said 'we are running the ball right at you, can you stop us?'. And most of the time the answer has been 'no'.

Also look at how consistently well the Steelers have run the ball in every direction:

Left End: 4.02
Left Tackle:4.06
Mid/Guard:4.43
Right Tackle:3.66
Right End:4.05

4 out of 5 times they pick up 4 yds. Also consider that every team will look at the Steelers and say 'we have to stop the run'. Compare this with us were we only get 4 YPC running behind BIG or up the middle.

The type of mentality and scheme Grimm and Whiz are going to bring to the OL will be PERFECT for Brown, Leckey and Duece. Those three love being physical. IF Grimm can get inside BIG's head he will also be in the same mold of those three.

As Duckjake pointed out awhile ago, this team on offense has been trying to be something it's not. You have a line that has physical players, three WR's who are physical and a power back in Edge. And what did we try and do? Be a finesse team! We aren't geared for that. I can't wait to see this offense come out and smack a defense in the mouth.

Great post. I think this speaks to the Steelers overall philosophy and approach. This is something that I think the Cards could use. Redsz.

 

[az jam]

Got this off the Steelers board from one of their fans:

I think Grimm will be missed though. I know the o-line was a disappoint last year, but it was still okay and consider the fact that for the last decade, there was only 1 first round pick used on an o-lineman (Simmons) and only 1 real FA signing (Hartings). Only 1 top pick and 1 FA signing and this team has been typically pretty good on the o-line, a ton of other teams would dream for that to be the case.

Bottom line, I think Grimm built a tough no nonsense line with a minimum amount of talent. The high draft choices were for the defense and playmakers. (Rothlisberger, Buress, etc.)
Additionally, the Steelers did not spend a lot of money on free agents.

 

[HoodieBets]

The Cards can not be a smashmouth team like Pitt. They are just not built for it. James perfers the stretch plays, and we stil have Q and Fitz. They are built to be the next Rams. Fast, Innovative and big plays.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Cards can not be a smashmouth team like Pitt. They are just not built for it. James perfers the stretch plays, and we stil have Q and Fitz. They are built to be the next Rams. Fast, Innovative and big plays.

I agree. However, you have to have a hard nosed tough attitude to stay as disciplined as the Steelers have been the past few years. If any of that rubs off on this offensive line it can only help.

 

[HoodieBets]

I agree. However, you have to have a hard nosed tough attitude to stay as disciplined as the Steelers have been the past few years. If any of that rubs off on this offensive line it can only help.

Agreed i wish the team was meaner and had an attitude, especially the O-Line. Discipline is good i just hope they dont try to turn this team into the steelers. Two totally different styles and different personell.

 

[Covert Rain]

Agreed i wish the team was meaner and had an attitude, especially the O-Line. Discipline is good i just hope they dont try to turn this team into the steelers. Two totally different styles and different personell.

Don't forget that the Steelers were still good at the run game this year using more of a slashing tail back in Willie Parker. When they started the season they were trying to use him like Jerome. However, they switched things up and Parker took off. That shows me they could adjust.

 

[Redsz]

The Cards can not be a smashmouth team like Pitt. They are just not built for it. James perfers the stretch plays, and we stil have Q and Fitz. They are built to be the next Rams. Fast, Innovative and big plays.

I disagree entirley. Can anyone point to parrellels between the two teams apart from the fact that they are 'talented'?

We don't have speed on offense, we have size and strength. So while we might not see Q or Fitz burn a CB running in a straight line, we will also never see them take a dive or duck out of bounds to avoid contact.

Edge has been a power runner for the good part of 5 years now. Yes, he likes to pick the holes he runs through with the stretch play, but he is a GRINDER. He isn't Marshall Faulk, he has a completley different running style now.

Look at the players on offense: Fitz, Q, Edge, Duece, Leckey, M. Brown and BIG. The only guy who is a finesse player is Reggie Wells and possibly Bryant Johnson.

We can still be smart, innovative and have big plays. But we aren't the Rams. We are much closer to the Steelers than the Rams.

 

[HoodieBets]

Don't forget that the Steelers were still good at the run game this year using more of a slashing tail back in Willie Parker. When they started the season they were trying to use him like Jerome. However, they switched things up and Parker took off. That shows me they could adjust.

They also figured it out too late, i hope they already kno that about Edge.

 

[Covert Rain]

They also figured it out too late, i hope they already kno that about Edge.

Considering...technically they lost their jobs..something tells me they will do their homework.

 

[HoodieBets]

I disagree entirley. Can anyone point to parrellels between the two teams apart from the fact that they are 'talented'?

We don't have speed on offense, we have size and strength. So while we might not see Q or Fitz burn a CB running in a straight line, we will also never see them take a dive or duck out of bounds to avoid contact.

Edge has been a power runner for the good part of 5 years now. Yes, he likes to pick the holes he runs through with the stretch play, but he is a GRINDER. He isn't Marshall Faulk, he has a completley different running style now.

Look at the players on offense: Fitz, Q, Edge, Duece, Leckey, M. Brown and BIG. The only guy who is a finesse player is Reggie Wells and possibly Bryant Johnson.

We can still be smart, innovative and have big plays. But we aren't the Rams. We are much closer to the Steelers than the Rams.

So Fitz dosent burn CB's? Ive seen him run that sideline many of times. Edge IMO dosent want to be a bruiser, he knows the lifespan of a RB and bein a bruiser only shortens that. He would perfer to wait behind the line and pick a hole than just run full speed behind the line. He is a finese back not a power back. I dont know if you watched him this year but he didnt run over anyone. This team is no smashmouth team. Was lutui apart of a smashmouth team at USC...No, and BIG is too much of a wuss to play smashmouth football.

So lets compare, IMO Edge is like Faulk at this stage, Fitz is like Bruce, and Q is like Holt. Only difference is Leinart is more mobile than Warner. Compare how the Cards are like the steelers? whos Willie Parker? Who is there second WR? The only comaprision is Ward and Q IMO.

 

[joeshmo]

In regards to the pass blocking, what type of linemen would you classify the Steelers as having? I certainly wouldn't say agile pass blockers. They run a power blocking scheme with physical linemen and with the Steelers throwing more, they struggled. I also wouldn't under-estimate the 'inflation' of those numbers with Ben Rothlisberger moving out of the pocket to try and make plays.

I am not concerned about the run blocking.

My concern is he going to try and build the same OL here, with a power run blocking scheme, and that seems to be all he has ever worked with, or tried to build. I still have great questions as to ability to coach a unit, power or finesse when it comes to pass blocking as he hasnt been able to yet.

And the pass blocking was just as bad the year before when they threw almost never, so I dont think any of those numbers are inflated for any reason unless your OC is mike Martz.

Come on someone sway me the other way, I dont want to be this negative. I am in a glass box of emotion here.

 

[HoodieBets]

I am in a glass box of emotion here.

HAHAHA Anchorman classic.

 

[Covert Rain]

Here is the one thing that nobody is pointing out. With the Steelers blocking schemes, the Receivers are REQUIRED to be good blockers. I am going to be curious to see how Fitz and Boldin respond. Hines Ward is considered one of the toughest and best blocking receivers in the NFL. I guarantee they have not seen blocking duty like they are going to with this staff. It should be interesting.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I hope he can improve the numbers from what he did in Pittsburg. The cards quarterback is very fragile and he is going to need the line to do there jobs.

I don't get it...How is Leinart fragile? You are not the only person to make comments like this about him.

I remember how he was getting destroyed by ASU and really got his bell rung...he had to leave the game...but, came back and led his team to a victory.

 

[Brian]

We are much more like the Steelers and very far away from the Rams.

There is no speed on offense.

Let's clear up some things here:

1) Fitz never burns anybody down the sideline, he out jumps them.

2) Edge is nothing like Marshall Faulk, he is a grinder. He never had and never will have any speed.

3) Anquan is every bit as good a blocker as Hines Ward. Grimm won't do anything to change that, because Q already does it.

4) I never wanted Loney to leave and I think this was a piss-poor decision on Whisenhunt's part. The line played VERY well once the right pieces were in place. Giving Grimm the job when the Cards line outplayed the Steelers last year was foolish and I HATE the fact it was done because they are friends....see Richard Solomon.

5) Why all the excitement over this hiring??......Because he is a new name. Because it is something new to get excited over. Grimm wasn't offered the HC job here, or in Pittsburgh, or anywhere else for that matter. Loney should have been retained, or at least evaluated more by Whiz. I don't think Grimm was going anywhere.

6) I am WAY less than thrilled about the DB coach hiring. There had to be SOMEBODY out there with a more impressive resume.

end of rant.

 

[D-Dogg]

see Richard Solomon.
.

Bro, you can't even begin to compare Solomon and Grimm. Being friends isn't an issue as long as the friend can coach. Grimm can. Solomon absolutely, positively can not.