Is it Larry Brown or Darko? What's going on? Suns related.

[Yuma]

I read somewhere during yesterday's excitement over the Q/KT trade, that the Suns had enquired about Darko from the Pistons. Supposedly the Pistons won't talk about it until the season was over for them.

That brings up the end of the third quarter in yesterday's game 7. Rasheed and McDyess hit the oine with 4 fouls each. Then Tim Duncan brought the Spurs back into the game because Detroit was forced to go small. That would have been the perfect opportunity to bring Darko in, imho. At that point in the game Tim Duncan hadn't missed a free throw, but as the announcer said, his free throw attempts were an adventure.

Is Darko that bad that Brown can't put him in the game? Or is it Brown, who refused to play Amare at the Olympics, and subsequently Amare abused the NBA the whole season?

No way Darko should have had a DNP when the other bigs were in foul trouble. I have been an ardent Darko critic in the past, but now I wonder if Brown isn't a whack job himself?

 

[Gaddabout]

I read somewhere during yesterday's excitement over the Q/KT trade, that the Suns had enquired about Darko from the Pistons. Supposedly the Pistons won't talk about it until the season was over for them.

That brings up the end of the third quarter in yesterday's game 7. Rasheed and McDyess hit the oine with 4 fouls each. Then Tim Duncan brought the Spurs back into the game because Detroit was forced to go small. That would have been the perfect opportunity to bring Darko in, imho. At that point in the game Tim Duncan hadn't missed a free throw, but as the announcer said, his free throw attempts were an adventure.

Is Darko that bad that Brown can't put him in the game? Or is it Brown, who refused to play Amare at the Olympics, and subsequently Amare abused the NBA the whole season?

No way Darko should have had a DNP when the other bigs were in foul trouble. I have been an ardent Darko critic in the past, but now I wonder if Brown isn't a whack job himself?

I think Brown is a good coach because he's learned to rely on players who follow orders. That said, it's been proven that Darko was vastly overrated. He might be a serviceable player that Brown has ignored because Darko doesn't know how to fit into Brown's defensive system, but Darko was clearly not worth the top pick.

I can see Darko gaining some value on a more offensive team, but I'll be damned if that comes at much cost. The Pistons would have to swallow their pride to trade him for a second-round pick or some such nonsense. I think they would probably just let his contract expire before confessing how badly they goofed it. Of course, there was probably 28 other teams willing to make the mistake at the time, the Pistons were just the unfortunate team with the responsibility of making that mistake.

 

[NickelBack]

Larry Brown did a great job with Detroit but this is clearly Joe Dumars' franchise at this point and he seems to very much like the long term potential of this kid.

 

[Gaddabout]

Larry Brown did a great job with Detroit but this is clearly Joe Dumars' franchise at this point and he seems to very much like the long term potential of this kid.

Good point. The Pistons can't say with much confidence who will be their head coach next year. You never can when you employ Larry Brown.

 

[Gorilla]

I think Brown is a good coach because he's learned to rely on players who follow orders. That said, it's been proven that Darko was vastly overrated. He might be a serviceable player that Brown has ignored because Darko doesn't know how to fit into Brown's defensive system, but Darko was clearly not worth the top pick.

I can see Darko gaining some value on a more offensive team, but I'll be damned if that comes at much cost. The Pistons would have to swallow their pride to trade him for a second-round pick or some such nonsense. I think they would probably just let his contract expire before confessing how badly they goofed it. Of course, there was probably 28 other teams willing to make the mistake at the time, the Pistons were just the unfortunate team with the responsibility of making that mistake.

It might help a little to swallow their pride, the fact that since drafting Darko they've won a title and reached the finals. I know Darko had nothing to do with it, but the goal is to win a title and the did.

 

[fordronken]

Come on. While I agree that Larry Brown has done a poor job of developing Darko(and Amare for that matter), last night would not have been a good time to bring him in. He hadn't played a relevant minute in his entire career(including the regular season) and you are going to all of a sudden put him in an extremely crucial point of a game seven in the NBA Finals where even three time Finals MVP Tim Duncan admitted to being a little nervous and unsure?

No way. He would have turned the ball over and broken his wrist.

 

[sunsfn]

I have read reports on the internet from GM's that have said that Darko does not seem to understand the concept that you have to work hard on every play, and the game does not always evolve around just you when you are in the game.

I think the Pistons made a mistake drafting him, and others probably would have drafted him right after they passed, but he so far is a bust.

He is young and has a chance to improve his game, but Larry Brown did not play him for a reason. Even if Brown does not like to play rookies, Darko is no longer a rookie and should be getting some minutes during the season for being a 2nd pick in the draft.

 

[Yuma]

Well, I am looking at this because the Suns supposedly asked about Darko.

1. Suns seem like they are good at evaluating talent and they are interested in Darko. Just trolling, or do they think he's got talent?

2. Brown didn't play guys like Amare when it seemed they may have been able to help the US Olympic team earn more than a bronze metal. Is he really a genius, or is he not good at developing or recognizing guy's talent? I mean look at how Amare played this year, and then try and imagine how he was a detriment to playing on the Olympic team. Hard for me to imagine.

3. How can so many scouts and talent evaluators be THAT wrong about Darko?

I know I STILL believe Detroit should have taken Carmello over Darko. I know you guys disagree with that. I'm just saying as a big Darko detractor, even I have to wonder what the deal is with Brown and this kid, especially when Dumars seemingly is so high on the guy. The situation seems very weird.

About not putting Darko in when he was too nervous, how nervous do you have to be to foul Tim Duncan instead of letting him get his rythm hitting his bank shots and getting dunks. He was on the rest of the game after they went small for that stretch and he got his confidence back.

 

[goldseraph]

Darko is not a bust. He's going to be a quality player in this league.
The kid was BARELY 18 when drafted, and he's also a Euro. There's a
huge change when you start playing in the NBA against guys like Shaq, Ben Wallace, Amare etc. On top of that he isn't getting ANY playing time for 2 years. I don't think its that hes untalented, its just that he has Rasheed, Ben, Antonio, Elden and Corliss eating up all the PF time.

Darko just turned 20 four days ago, he should be a sophomore in college right now. He is 7'1" and a ripped 250-260 lbs. I'm sure if he were in college playing 35 minutes a game, he would be touted as much as Bogut.

 

[Joe Mama]

Darko is not a bust. He's going to be a quality player in this league.
The kid was BARELY 18 when drafted, and he's also a Euro. There's a
huge change when you start playing in the NBA against guys like Shaq, Ben Wallace, Amare etc. On top of that he isn't getting ANY playing time for 2 years. I don't think its that hes untalented, its just that he has Rasheed, Ben, Antonio, Elden and Corliss eating up all the PF time.

Darko just turned 20 four days ago, he should be a sophomore in college right now. He is 7'1" and a ripped 250-260 lbs. I'm sure if he were in college playing 35 minutes a game, he would be touted as much as Bogut.

He also has an incredible wingspan. I believe it was something like 7-5. It was either that or his standing reach was 9-5. I think he will be a good frontcourt player for somebody at some point. That was just a wrong team to get him some experience and development.

I can't imagine Carmelo Anthony on that team. The guy is Glenn Robinson II. He plays no defense. Imagine the Olympics for several years. We all know now that Detroit should have taken Wade.

Joe Mama

 

[fordronken]

Boy, Dwyane Wade could have been huge for that team. That's not gonna be a dynasty?

 

[George O'Brien]

Bosh might have played some too.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Darko is not a bust. .

I agree.

He maybe a lot of things at this point, but a bust is not one of them.

 

[green machine]

I agree.

He maybe a lot of things at this point, but a bust is not one of them.

I think Darko will be a good player when all is said and done, but at this point in his career, he's a bust.

Really, the NBA is probably the only league where someone can get drafted and make a very immediate impact for their team. With the lottery, the goal is to get an impact player, someone who can really help your team. So far, Darko has not done that. Granted the Pistons haven't needed it, but when judging a lottery pick, especially a top 3 one, you gotta look at the impact they've made.

 

[goldseraph]

How can you make an impact when you're not allowed to play??

 

[Amare32]

I think If Flip Saunders takes over you can expect Darko in the Pistons rotation and performing.

 

[Joe Mama]

I think Darko will be a good player when all is said and done, but at this point in his career, he's a bust.

Really, the NBA is probably the only league where someone can get drafted and make a very immediate impact for their team. With the lottery, the goal is to get an impact player, someone who can really help your team. So far, Darko has not done that. Granted the Pistons haven't needed it, but when judging a lottery pick, especially a top 3 one, you gotta look at the impact they've made.

Not to get overly argumentative, the players come into the NFL and make immediate impacts as rookies all the time.

Joe Mama

 

[F-Dog]

I expect that part of the problem with Darko is Larry Brown, and part of the problem is Joe Dumars.


Larry Brown is a good coach, but his MO is that he only respects players who stand up to him, which means you can almost write off most of the rookies and especially Euros on his teams. I guess it makes sense, because his coaching style seems to be to overload his players with information and advice, so if you can't 'blow him off' to some extent and play your own game, you're going to look pretty bad.

The other problem is the McDyess signing. Dumars filled out the Pistons' rotation with veterans, so there isn't a role that Darko could have played this year. Dumars has created a situation that's awfully similar to what the Blazers had with Jermaine O'Neal, and I expect that Darko will blow up like JO did when he finally gets free; until then, he's going to look like crap, just like JO did when he was with Portland.


Carmelo would be getting plenty of playing time for Larry Brown--he loves conscience-free chuckers. Even in the Olympics, Carmelo got more PT than any of the other young players, despite being by far the least deserving (from all outward appearances, at least).

I bet Tayshaun Prince would be getting spot minutes to this day if the Pistons had drafted Carmelo instead.

 

[George O'Brien]

I expect that part of the problem with Darko is Larry Brown, and part of the problem is Joe Dumars.


Larry Brown is a good coach, but his MO is that he only respects players who stand up to him, which means you can almost write off most of the rookies and especially Euros on his teams. I guess it makes sense, because his coaching style seems to be to overload his players with information and advice, so if you can't 'blow him off' to some extent and play your own game, you're going to look pretty bad.

The other problem is the McDyess signing. Dumars filled out the Pistons' rotation with veterans, so there isn't a role that Darko could have played this year. Dumars has created a situation that's awfully similar to what the Blazers had with Jermaine O'Neal, and I expect that Darko will blow up like JO did when he finally gets free; until then, he's going to look like crap, just like JO did when he was with Portland.


Carmelo would be getting plenty of playing time for Larry Brown--he loves conscience-free chuckers. Even in the Olympics, Carmelo got more PT than any of the other young players, despite being by far the least deserving (from all outward appearances, at least).

I bet Tayshaun Prince would be getting spot minutes to this day if the Pistons had drafted Carmelo instead.

LB really wanted Carmello. When watching the problems the Pistons had scoring against the Spurs, it is hard to disagree although I think Carmello is a jerk.

 

[Russ Smith]

LB really wanted Carmello. When watching the problems the Pistons had scoring against the Spurs, it is hard to disagree although I think Carmello is a jerk.

I think Brown was the reason they did NOT take Carmelo. That's why Carmelo didn't get along with Brown on the Olympic team.

Regarding Brown, his NBA rep has always been doesn't like to play rookies, which is what makes his college days so interesting. Here's a guy that took a UCLA team playing so poorly that SI wrote an early season article called "The Bruins are in Ruins" and Brown got that same team to an NCAA title before losing to Louisville. How did he do it(other than the admitted violations that came out later), by benching his 2 soph guards (Tyren Naulls and injured Tony Anderson) and starting freshmen Michael Holton and Rod Foster. He did it by playing James Wilkes at C(6'7") and Mike Sanders at PF(6'6") . In college Brown showed the ability to take what he had and make it better. Brown played 4 freshmen that year huge minutes(add in Darren Daye and Cliff Pruitt) and took that team to a NC game loss(later wiped from the books due to Brown's NCAA violations), so there was a time Brown was perfectly willing to trust 18 year old kids. Just think the stakes were different, Brown knew he had a great Piston team so he saw no reason to force Darko into the lineup.


Obviously now they should have taken Wade since he's become a better player than Carmelo, but back then I was pretty sure that one of the reasons they took Darko over Carmelo is Brown figured Darko had talent, but because of his age and total lack of playing experience(he barely played in Europe), it would be much easier to sit him on the bench. IF Brown drafts Carmelo or Wade etc, the pressure on him to play that player as a rookie was going to be much greater than it was to play Darko. EVeryone had seen Carmelo carry Syracuse to a title and Wade carry Marquette deep into the tournament, nobody had seen Darko play. I think Brown figured the talent is there and it'll be a lot easier for me to sit him than sit Carmelo.

 

[Joe Mama]

Around the time of the draft it was well-publicized that Larry Brown wanted and was pushing for the Detroit Pistons to draft Carmelo Anthony.

Just remember that while he might have helped with their scoring he would have hurt that great Detroit Pistons defense. Given a choice between Tayshaun Prince and Carmelo Anthony, I would prefer Prince every time. Of course Anthony would have provided more than Darco has up till this point for sure.

Joe Mama

 

[Yuma]

Around the time of the draft it was well-publicized that Larry Brown wanted and was pushing for the Detroit Pistons to draft Carmelo Anthony.

Just remember that while he might have helped with their scoring he would have hurt that great Detroit Pistons defense. Given a choice between Tayshaun Prince and Carmelo Anthony, I would prefer Prince every time. Of course Anthony would have provided more than Darco has up till this point for sure.

Joe Mama

Yeah, I'd maybe START Prince, but as a rookie coming off the bench and expected to do one thing only, SCORE, Anthony would have been an excellant instant offense guy for them. Watching the Pistons the last couple years, they go through stretches in games where they NEED offense. They would have got more from Melo than Darko for sure. This talk about getting Wade, well that's hindsight 20/20 thinking. Detroit at the time had to choose between Darko and Melo according to most analysts ranking the draft. That was the draft thinking at the time.

It would be easy to go back to all the drafts and pick guys farther down than projected and say team X should have taken player Y. There's teams kicking themselves they didn't take Amare!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I think Brown was the reason they did NOT take Carmelo. That's why Carmelo didn't get along with Brown on the Olympic team.
.

Brown has next to no say in the Piston's player aquisitions. Unlike Philly where he got what he wanted, Dumars does it all on his own.

Like Joe said, it was very very publicized that Brown wanted Anthony.

 

[Russ Smith]

Brown has next to no say in the Piston's player aquisitions. Unlike Philly where he got what he wanted, Dumars does it all on his own.

Like Joe said, it was very very publicized that Brown wanted Anthony.

Sorry I should have said I think the REAL reason was Brown. I know it's well publicized that Dumars fell in love with Darko at a workout and the rest is history, but I don't believe Brown really campaigned for Melo. My personal opinion is that Brown made it very easy for Dumars to pass on Melo because Brown didn't want Melo.

Dumars loves Prince and that's why he didn't want Melo, he felt he'd rather let Prince develop than go for Melo who's a gifted offensive player but not much on defense. In Brown's case, I think Brown knew essentially anybody they picked wasn't going to break their rotation right away with him as the coach, and he felt it'd be a lot easier to sit Darko, than sit Melo.

There's also the matter that before that pick it was rumored Brown wanted to get rid of Hamilton, who was an RFA at the time. That may have played a role in the Brown wants Anthony stuff because if they let Hamilton walk, they probably find a role for Prince at SG and then Melo makes sense?

I guess what I'm saying is I don't really think Brown lobbied hard for Melo despite what was rumored, I think Brown was quite content in them taking Darko because he knew he wasn't going to play him anyways.

Look at the minutes Brown gave Wade, Amare and LeBron in the Olympics, (let alone Melo) he just does not play young players anymore.

I don't know, I certainly can't read Larry's mind but I get the impression that if he'd really wanted someone other than Darko, he would have come out and said it by now, he's not a "company line" kind of guy. Maybe if he leaves the Pistons he'll come out and say that?