Sunburn
ASFN Lifer
This screams buyer beware to me. What do you think a team would actually give us for the Morri?
Is Jeff Hornacek the right choice for the Suns?
- Thread starter sunsfan88
- Start date
This screams buyer beware to me. What do you think a team would actually give us for the Morri?
Yeah, I re-upped for next year. What a sucker I am. Just a horrific, train-wreck kind of year. I had to SEVERELY lower my expectations to even enjoy going to the games after mid-season. I'm passionate about ball, so my consolation is that I get to see some world-class athletes up close and personal.
Here are some random thoughts...
- Eric Bledsoe isn't a PG. He's not a SG. He's a combo guard, bench player that shouldn't be expected to give your team consistent 38 minutes of play night after night. A classic "coach killer". He's a world-class athlete that doesn't have the ball IQ PG awareness, or constant motor a championship level team needs. Ryan McD would be crazy to not entertain inquiries for Bled this off-season. I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but EB has not given any of us reason to believe he can magically become a PG that makes the players around him better.
- Brandon Knight. More of your classic PG with a higher ball IQ than Bledsoe. No way is this kid is a 2 guard... too small and will get eaten up if he has the fight over picks for 82 games. I think Knights gets it, and has a chance to become a really good PG. He's more of a Hornacek-type player than anyone else on this team. Suns now have to overpay to keep him, but I'm not certain he wants to be here.
- Morrii. Both are pretty good basketball players. They're just not the #1 or #2 or even #3 options on a championship level team. I do think the mid-season mess they created with their mouths actually forced them to play harder. I predict they'll be broken up or both traded during the summer. I also think the organization wants them both gone.
- Alex Len. Get stronger and stay healthy for chrissakes. Did not have the veteran leadership to get in his face when needed. Surrounding Len with vets who take interest in helping him should be a top priority.
- Archie Goodwin. A talented athlete without a position. His PG skills are embarrassing. Barely acceptable as 2 guard off the bench. I think even Archie now realizes he has a long ways to go to be a consistent rotation player in the NBA.
- TJ Warren. Without a doubt, should be a big part of the Suns future. Movement without the ball is beautiful to see. Still needs to be a threat from 3... which we haven't seen at all. He needs to be with a PG that distributes.
- PJ Tucker. Play D. Shut up. And pray that the Suns don't have to depend on him for any type of offense from him next year. Because if they do, there's been no progress. PJ took a beating this year, hats off to him for giving every ounce he had.
- Jeff Hornacek. No one should be blaming Hornacek for what occurred this year. John Wooden couldn't of coached this team and made everyone happy. The team chemistry was toxic from the very first substitution. Perhaps Jeff was preoccupied with managing minutes and getting Bledsoe to run a damn play... and not the game at times. A very tough situation for him, and he'll be the first to admit it was a rough year. I wouldn't be shocked if he just said "screw this" and resigned.
- Suns are down by 26 at halftime tonight, and Markieff and Gerald Green are laughing, standing talking to Clippers players on their end of the court. It's always a lovefest with Markieff and the other team players.
- I get the vibe that there are going to be sweeping changes again this summer. Wouldn't be surprised to see Babby deleted. There are a lot of pissed off people in this organization and season ticket holders in regards to what went down this year. The Suns were "close", having tons of space and picks. Ryan McD outfoxed himself. And, now... he has a career-defining off-season to try and fix this mess. I just don't see how he does it? I do think the Suns rebuilding plans would start with locking up Brandon Knight as quickly as possible.
- I'm still shocked Goran Dragic is gone. Should of never reached the point of no return like it did. He was the face of this franchise, and wanted to be here until the Suns dangled him during the summer to Indiana, and he got frozen out repeatedly by Bledsoe and IT. He may not be a 1st/2nd team all-NBA, but those kind of guards don't grow on trees.
- Players I think should stay for the rebuild: Len, Knight, Wright, Warren, Tucker.
- What "if" the Suns let Bledsoe walk last summer, and still signed IT. Re-signed Channing Frye? Starting line-up of Dragic, IT, Frye, Markieff, and Len. I think that line-up wins 48-53 games. Suns still have the Lakers pick. Tons of cash to spend. Hindsite, I know... but better than what we have now heading into this summer.
- Me and my fiance were having dinner out a couple weeks ago. Of course, I notice ref Billy Kennedy sitting at the bar eating his dinner. She says "hi Billy" when he's about to leave. Next thing you know, Billy is at our table for the next hour or so. We talked about everything and had some good laughs. New found respect for NBA refs, and Billy is a super, nice guy. Bottom line, Billy is and has always been a Suns fan as he grew up here. Loves Hornacek. Doesn't understand Sarver and his constant rants at refs (still). Thinks the Morrii should be shipped off. Refs don't get per diem when working "home" games. Refs are their own travel agents from city to city (which blew me away). The rest is top-secret
Here are some random thoughts...
- Eric Bledsoe isn't a PG. He's not a SG. He's a combo guard, bench player that shouldn't be expected to give your team consistent 38 minutes of play night after night. A classic "coach killer". He's a world-class athlete that doesn't have the ball IQ PG awareness, or constant motor a championship level team needs. Ryan McD would be crazy to not entertain inquiries for Bled this off-season. I'd love to be proven wrong on this, but EB has not given any of us reason to believe he can magically become a PG that makes the players around him better.
- Brandon Knight. More of your classic PG with a higher ball IQ than Bledsoe. No way is this kid is a 2 guard... too small and will get eaten up if he has the fight over picks for 82 games. I think Knights gets it, and has a chance to become a really good PG. He's more of a Hornacek-type player than anyone else on this team. Suns now have to overpay to keep him, but I'm not certain he wants to be here.
- Morrii. Both are pretty good basketball players. They're just not the #1 or #2 or even #3 options on a championship level team. I do think the mid-season mess they created with their mouths actually forced them to play harder. I predict they'll be broken up or both traded during the summer. I also think the organization wants them both gone.
- Alex Len. Get stronger and stay healthy for chrissakes. Did not have the veteran leadership to get in his face when needed. Surrounding Len with vets who take interest in helping him should be a top priority.
- Archie Goodwin. A talented athlete without a position. His PG skills are embarrassing. Barely acceptable as 2 guard off the bench. I think even Archie now realizes he has a long ways to go to be a consistent rotation player in the NBA.
- TJ Warren. Without a doubt, should be a big part of the Suns future. Movement without the ball is beautiful to see. Still needs to be a threat from 3... which we haven't seen at all. He needs to be with a PG that distributes.
- PJ Tucker. Play D. Shut up. And pray that the Suns don't have to depend on him for any type of offense from him next year. Because if they do, there's been no progress. PJ took a beating this year, hats off to him for giving every ounce he had.
- Jeff Hornacek. No one should be blaming Hornacek for what occurred this year. John Wooden couldn't of coached this team and made everyone happy. The team chemistry was toxic from the very first substitution. Perhaps Jeff was preoccupied with managing minutes and getting Bledsoe to run a damn play... and not the game at times. A very tough situation for him, and he'll be the first to admit it was a rough year. I wouldn't be shocked if he just said "screw this" and resigned.
- Suns are down by 26 at halftime tonight, and Markieff and Gerald Green are laughing, standing talking to Clippers players on their end of the court. It's always a lovefest with Markieff and the other team players.
- I get the vibe that there are going to be sweeping changes again this summer. Wouldn't be surprised to see Babby deleted. There are a lot of pissed off people in this organization and season ticket holders in regards to what went down this year. The Suns were "close", having tons of space and picks. Ryan McD outfoxed himself. And, now... he has a career-defining off-season to try and fix this mess. I just don't see how he does it? I do think the Suns rebuilding plans would start with locking up Brandon Knight as quickly as possible.
- I'm still shocked Goran Dragic is gone. Should of never reached the point of no return like it did. He was the face of this franchise, and wanted to be here until the Suns dangled him during the summer to Indiana, and he got frozen out repeatedly by Bledsoe and IT. He may not be a 1st/2nd team all-NBA, but those kind of guards don't grow on trees.
- Players I think should stay for the rebuild: Len, Knight, Wright, Warren, Tucker.
- What "if" the Suns let Bledsoe walk last summer, and still signed IT. Re-signed Channing Frye? Starting line-up of Dragic, IT, Frye, Markieff, and Len. I think that line-up wins 48-53 games. Suns still have the Lakers pick. Tons of cash to spend. Hindsite, I know... but better than what we have now heading into this summer.
- Me and my fiance were having dinner out a couple weeks ago. Of course, I notice ref Billy Kennedy sitting at the bar eating his dinner. She says "hi Billy" when he's about to leave. Next thing you know, Billy is at our table for the next hour or so. We talked about everything and had some good laughs. New found respect for NBA refs, and Billy is a super, nice guy. Bottom line, Billy is and has always been a Suns fan as he grew up here. Loves Hornacek. Doesn't understand Sarver and his constant rants at refs (still). Thinks the Morrii should be shipped off. Refs don't get per diem when working "home" games. Refs are their own travel agents from city to city (which blew me away). The rest is top-secret
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
If the players don't fully respect the coach there's nothing you can do. All year they've been bitching about their roles and Hornacek's inability to communicate it to them. Even when Marcus sized him up on national tv not one player stepped in to defend their head coach.
Good coaches sometimes don't make it in this league for reasons that aren't fair and that's what will happen if the Suns have another rough year. We the fans love the ex-town favorite but the current players couldn't care less about him being a great Sun 25 years ago.
Good coaches sometimes don't make it in this league for reasons that aren't fair and that's what will happen if the Suns have another rough year. We the fans love the ex-town favorite but the current players couldn't care less about him being a great Sun 25 years ago.
Phrazbit
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2011
- Posts
- 20,318
- Reaction score
- 11,397
Frye is the walking dead at this point and Dragic without a forward who can spread the court for him is merely an average starter. I think if we'd let Bledsoe go, kept Frye, signed IT, ect ect we'd be in a similar spot in terms of our record... maybe worse because as much as I dislike right now Markieff, he brought more than Frye did at this point and Frye being here minimizes Kieff's role and we'd have been dramatically worse defensively.
The positive is we'd still have the Laker pick, but we'd be sweating Dragic's free agency and I think he'd be a virtual lock to leave (even without Bledsoe on the roster). If his problems were all about his role and being frozen out then he wouldn't have limited his destinations to Miami, LA and NY. IMO he was bolting regardless, his priorities had very little to do with basketball, he just didn't know it yet last summer.
The Knight trade is looking pretty bad at the moment. They didn't even get the chance to see how he'd fit, which, along with being able to match any offer, was the only benefit of trading for him over attempting to sign him away from the Bucks over the summer.
The positive is we'd still have the Laker pick, but we'd be sweating Dragic's free agency and I think he'd be a virtual lock to leave (even without Bledsoe on the roster). If his problems were all about his role and being frozen out then he wouldn't have limited his destinations to Miami, LA and NY. IMO he was bolting regardless, his priorities had very little to do with basketball, he just didn't know it yet last summer.
The Knight trade is looking pretty bad at the moment. They didn't even get the chance to see how he'd fit, which, along with being able to match any offer, was the only benefit of trading for him over attempting to sign him away from the Bucks over the summer.
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
I just don't think anyone respects him. It certainly doesn't seem that way when watching the games.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
To be fair, many respect Jeff Hornacek and always will.
But we don't appreciate that he has proven his lack of ability to be the guy in charge.
I hope the Suns can face that and relieve Jeff of his frustration before too long.
It got to the point where his comments about his players to the Press sounded like cries for help. Or relief.
Errntknght
Registered User
Now is the time to fire Jeff if McD is going to do it this year - its rather late, in fact. You at least want to give him chances to pursue other vacancies. I've changed my mind about him voluntarily stepping down to the position of lead assistant under Thibs. It would be good for him but it would mean he'd probably be the offensive coach and I really don't want to see more of his offense. Most likely Thibs would want to bring his own assistants anyway and would view that as an imposition. New Orleans is openly targetting Thibs and they're a more attractive destination with Anthony Davis - unless Thibs has a good, established relationship with McD.
Phrazbit
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2011
- Posts
- 20,318
- Reaction score
- 11,397
It does not matter... they're not firing him. Outside of a few internet forums its not even an idea that he might be fired.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Posts
- 91,480
- Reaction score
- 68,742
what even makes you think that ANY coach in any league would abdicate the throne and agree to stay on a team that demoted him to assistant coach for another HC.
Errntknght
Registered User
Heavens, I never thought he would do it - only that it would be good way for him to improve his coaching, particularly on the defensive end. He's also lacking in his leadership and getting players to buy into his plans. He might learn, too, not to blame losses on his players in the media.
Errntknght
Registered User
I'd be almost as surprised as anyone else if they fired him, but I can dream can't I? Frankly, I think McD will resist admitting he made a mistake with his most important move of his career here for a long time. I'm impatient - I can't expect to live through many long cycles of rebuilding so I want to get started on the next one ASAP. In my opinion they are worse off now than they were two years ago - then it was obvious that Hunter wasn't up to the job but now they believe their on the right path, despite the evidence to the contrary. If they sign Brandon Knight to a big contract they haven't learned from what happened the most recent season - if you can't get the players to buy into your plans, it scarcely matters what you plan is. And its not a plan that will work with two combo guards even if they do buy it.
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
Looks like we can end all the Thibs pipe dreams...
Man, assuming he hires a good offense assistant coach and since NOP has good scoring guards anyway, it would be a terrific hire. Anthony Davis with Thibs would just be unfair imo.
Man, assuming he hires a good offense assistant coach and since NOP has good scoring guards anyway, it would be a terrific hire. Anthony Davis with Thibs would just be unfair imo.
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
Does this have any realistic possibility of happening?
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2...carousel-land-tom-thibodeau-with-phoenix-suns
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2...carousel-land-tom-thibodeau-with-phoenix-suns
Thibs is going to the Lakers.imo
Lakers will fire Bryon Scott before the Suns even think about letting of coach Hornacek.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
No chance in hell. Thibs isn't touching the Suns with a ten-foot pole.
Errntknght
Registered User
Well, Hoiberg to the Bulls seems quite likely but Thibs to Phoenix is a very long shot, I imagine - the only edge we might have is a McD - Thibs connection from their time with the Celts. I certainly have no idea how big a role that might play.
The leg of the triangle that most interests me is Hornacek to his alma mater, Iowa State - because that's quicker than waiting for the brass to figure out he's not a good NBA head coach. I had serious reservations about him his first year but he really lost the team the most recent season and clearly did not get the players to buy into his plan - and two combo guards running his very minimal offense is not a good plan to begin with.
If he'd kept Ennis, a bona fide PG, and passed on Brandon Knight I might have had some hope for him but as it is, I have none. We will probably lead the league in TOs this year by a considerable margin.
Phrazbit
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2011
- Posts
- 20,318
- Reaction score
- 11,397
First off, I'm 100% sure the Suns are not going to fire Hornacek and 98% sure he wouldn't leave to go to Iowa State.
But, on the miniscule chance he does leave I think we'd absolutely have a chance for Thibs. He and McD worked together for several years on the Celtics, having a comfort level already established with people in a new place is huge in these processes. The only reason I'd think we wouldn't be in the mix is if for whatever reason they didn't like each other.
But, on the miniscule chance he does leave I think we'd absolutely have a chance for Thibs. He and McD worked together for several years on the Celtics, having a comfort level already established with people in a new place is huge in these processes. The only reason I'd think we wouldn't be in the mix is if for whatever reason they didn't like each other.
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
I'm gonna first laugh and then cry if the Lakers rebuild within 2 years and get back while the Suns stay in mediocrity. Okafor/Towns with a defensive guru like Thibs would just be freaking unfair.
Even though they have a ton of money, I still can't see the Lakers doing that though because then they would be paying 4 coaches...Mike Brown, Mike D'Antoni, Byron Scott and then Thibs.
I think if McD admitted that he screwed up with the whole dual combo guard offense or whatever they tried to do here and maybe gave Thibs the power in personnel decisions and told him he can design the team however he wants without anyone undermining him (unlike Chicago's FO) then maybe he finds it a little appealing here.
Obviously based on our roster and assets and the fact that we play in the West, Suns won't be a premiere destination for anyone but if Sarver opens up the check book to make him one of the highest paid coaches (and idk, maybe beg?), it could happen.
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
I think that was answered by Chicago firing Tom Thibodeau. Although there was some talk of it happening I think it's still surprising given his success and really overachievement there, for the most part. This move could cause someone else to get fired though, who was thought to be "safe", in order for a team to scoop up Thibodeau.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...by-bulls-latest-details-comments-and-reaction
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
I don't think its Thibs because everyone already knew it was a matter of when, not if for whether or not he gets fired after the season. Him getting fired after the season was as big a secret as Jim Harbaugh getting fired after the Niners season.
OP
OP
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
Sounds like he wouldn't mind leaving the Suns and coaching his alma mater.
Come on Sarver, free Hornacek!
Phrazbit
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2011
- Posts
- 20,318
- Reaction score
- 11,397
When I saw his comments in print the other day I came over here to revise my estimates down to 50/50 that he might leave for the Iowa St job, but then I heard the actual interview and saw the full context of the quote and changed my mind. It comes off more of a flattered musing followed by a statement of full commitment to his current job.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
sunsfan88“ said:
It sounds like "I'm interested!" than a musing.
It would be a win-win. Jeff, the NBA's nice guy, returning to his alma mater, where he would be more effective developing and overseeing college players.
I should hope he is making overtures to Iowa State and preparing his resignation letter to the Suns, thanking them for the opportunity they gave him.
And I should hope that Sarver is discussing the lineup philosophy and the 2- or 3-tweener Guard offense with McD.
That's my hope!
