Is our Shipp sinking?

[Rivercard]

Why all the negative talk about Shipp recently? He's consistently shown he can produce when given the chance and healthy. He didn't score a lot of TD's this year but there were other factors involved like poor line play in the red zone and an unimaginative offensive scheme to name a few. C'mon, show the Shipp some love.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Rivercard
He didn't score a lot of TD's this year

He didn't score any TD's this year.

I don't think he sucks, but I don't think he's the answer either.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: Is our Shipp sinking?

Originally posted by SECTION 11
He didn't score any TD's this year.

I don't think he sucks, but I don't think he's the answer either.

Ditto. He isn't one of the better backs in the league.

He's a good back, but if we have the chance to add an LT, or a Faulk, or a Portis-type player, we can't ignore that.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Re: Re: Is our Shipp sinking?

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Ditto. He isn't one of the better backs in the league.

He's a good back, but if we have the chance to add an LT, or a Faulk, or a Portis-type player, we can't ignore that.

Let's trade Bryant Johnson and shipp to Denver for Portis, we can afford to give him a new contract, they need young WR's and a replacement for Portis (-:

I think Portis and Ty Law are THE 2 most interesting offseason stories contract wise, will Law be released, and what will Denver do to rework Portis' deal without killing their cap?

 

[kerouac9]

It's funny that these threads come up about every 10 posts doubting Marcel Shipp. Not anti-Shipp, but just doubting him.

If we do draft a RB at #3, he better rush for 2000 yards his rookie season, or many fans will be calling for his head.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
It's funny that these threads come up about every 10 posts doubting Marcel Shipp. Not anti-Shipp, but just doubting him.

If we do draft a RB at #3, he better rush for 2000 yards his rookie season, or many fans will be calling for his head.

Forget that after Quan, my expectations for 2nd round picks are through the roof. IF we take a RB in round 2 he better gain 2000.

We clearly need more from our RB's this year, I just have a feeling with the exact same personnel, we'll get more this year just because of the coaching staff changes. If we upgrade the personnel all the better.

 

[EnglishCardinal]

give Shipp a chance - he has had half a season as starter and did ok

if you are not ahppy after nextseason then fair enough, but for me he showed enough to be given a year as starter (and witha bit of guidence from #22 then who knows)

come lets here those tug boat horns blaasting when i'm listening to the games next year

 

[conraddobler]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Forget that after Quan, my expectations for 2nd round picks are through the roof. IF we take a RB in round 2 he better gain 2000.

We clearly need more from our RB's this year, I just have a feeling with the exact same personnel, we'll get more this year just because of the coaching staff changes. If we upgrade the personnel all the better.

It is interesting to note that rookie RB's produce better than any other category of player.

You can plug in a complete rookie and actually upgrade your running game immensely. That is not true for most positions.

 

[vince56]

Maybe it's just me but I don't think the running backs were the problem. Emmitt showed some great moves, when he wasn't met by 3 defenders in the backfield. The O line needs to block more and we need to throw the counters and draws out of the playbook. Our O-line doesn't run fast / hard enough to execute counter plays (well, it did when Kendall was at Guard, but that's another story) and they don't hold their blocks long enough to execute draws effectively.

I thought with Shipp/Smith/Anderson we were pretty solid last year at RB. With Anderson probably not returning this year (or if he does, probably not at full strength) I could see us taking a RB in a late round as a depth guy. Shipp's per carry averages have been decent, he seems to have curbed his fumbling, and he did have those two huge games this year. I'd like to see what he could do with a full year of our OL actually trying to compete before we pull the plug on his career. That just seems the most rational choice IMO.

Only way I'd go around that is if in Denny Green's system he needs a speed back, then for sure Shipp's not his guy. Hopefully he can use a pounding back like Shipp and we can all be happy

 

[cardsunsfan]

Shipp almost never got the ball in the red zone. We almost always passed it or gave it to the other backs. He would have had several touchdowns if given the opportunity.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Just because of the inconsistent play of our OLine over the year, I think Shipp should get one more year as full-time starter. If he doesn't perform, then we draft Cadillac Williams in 2005. I'm very hesitant saying this because I think Steven Jackson is going to be very good.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

Shipp is the man! That is it, end of story! After this season there will be no one doubting that he is the real deal and should have been the starter 2 years ago!

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
Shipp almost never got the ball in the red zone. We almost always passed it or gave it to the other backs. He would have had several touchdowns if given the opportunity.

No he wouldn't. He would have just fumbled MORE if given the opportunty.

Football Outsiders

According to these guy's advanced analysis, based on game-situations, Marcel performed just better (0.1 points) than a replacement-level runningback, as well as being considerably worse (-13.6 %) than an average runningback in similar situations.

I don't know how these guys reach their numbers, but they seem pretty authoritative to me.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by DieHardCardFan
Shipp is the man! That is it, end of story! After this season there will be no one doubting that he is the real deal and should have been the starter 2 years ago!

Again, 200+ carries, no TDs, and 3 Fumbles, all lost, speak for themselves. Maybe some more exclaimation points would help your arguement.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Again, 200+ carries, no TDs, and 3 Fumbles, all lost, speak for themselves. Maybe some more exclaimation points would help your arguement.

Kerouac you can throw stats out there all you want. But you know and we all know that they certainly dont tell the whole story.

There was a lot more issues with this team on offense than the RB issues had this year. I can simply pull Marcells scoring stats from last season to refute your argument for this season. But that wouldnt solve anything. Many players have off years and are still more than productive in years after.

The guy is an above average RB in this league when healthy.

He will be given his shot to start this year and be the fulltime starter. Then and only then will we have the full picture IMO!

 

[CardinalChris]

Re: Re: Is our Shipp sinking?

Originally posted by SECTION 11
He didn't score any TD's this year.

I don't think he sucks, but I don't think he's the answer either.

Ummm..... we saw some of the worst QB play in the NFL for the majority of the league, not to mention it seemed EVERY time we got into the red zone we threw. Or when Shipp got hot... we'd bring in Emmitt. I can't put that on Marcel.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Shane H
The guy is an above average RB in this league when healthy.

Yeah, but how "above average"? Being the 15th best RB in the NFL is above average, but it's not really going to get the Cards into the playoffs, is it?

I can't really imagine a scenario in which Shipp leads this team to a Super Bowl short of implementing a Pats-like pass-every-down system.

If you want to look at last season, check this stat: what's the Cards overall record in games that Marcel Shipp started? Thanks for playing.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Yeah Shipp fumbled a few times in the red zone in the past. So once he does it, he never gets another chance?! Of course until he gets more trys in the redzone he'll never get to change that and I think he would have last year....

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by kerouac9


If you want to look at last season, check this stat: what's the Cards overall record in games that Marcel Shipp started? Thanks for playing.

Thats the most bogus stat you could even think about bring up in relation to Marcell Shipp and you know it!

Now you are bordering on rediculous with your argument!

Last I checked Marcell didnt play QB, oh wait ot OL, oh wait or WR. Wait a minute once more I dont recall him ever playing a down of defense either????

:roll:

You could have put frigging Clinton Portis behind that Cards team of last year and they still wouldn not have won a game! Just making your point all the more meaningless!

 

[SECTION 11]

I think we could and should do better at running back. It's too important of a position to have mediocrity.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Yeah, but how "above average"? Being the 15th best RB in the NFL is above average, but it's not really going to get the Cards into the playoffs, is it?

I can't really imagine a scenario in which Shipp leads this team to a Super Bowl short of implementing a Pats-like pass-every-down system.

If you want to look at last season, check this stat: what's the Cards overall record in games that Marcel Shipp started? Thanks for playing.

While I don't think of Shipp as a top tier back in any way, if used properly along with the other weapons, he can certainly be a major contributor in a Cards Super Bowl chase. If the offense doesn;t turn over the damn football, you don't need a top 5 back to get you there.

Who cares what the record was when he started? The team stunk it up last year no matter who was starting. What was their record when Quan was starting? Does that mean he cannot help the Cards to a Super Bowl?

 

[Second Deck]

I think we need to give Shipp the chance to be the starter out of the gate. I feel RB is one of our strong positions and unless someone fell into our lap would not worry about it.

 

[schel]

I also say give Shipp a chance from the beginning of the season. He may not be the fastest RB in the league but he works hard, is a great special teams player, and fits perfectly with this big offensive line by running through the middle (when the offensive line is working). What I like about him is that he consistently moves forward, and when hit in the backfield, he fights hard for those extra yards instead of taking a loss. I'd also like to see some screen passes this year. I really think it could be successful. Shipp's not a bad receiving RB. I really blame the offensive line for most of the running problems. Even Emmitt wasn't as bad as he played. He got hit in the backfield so many times before given a chance. Once the line is fixed I see great things for the running game and I like the fact that Green is actually making the RBs compete for the job instead of handing it over to Emmitt.

 

[Phill11]

Re: Re: Is our Shipp sinking?

Originally posted by SECTION 11
He didn't score any TD's this year.

I don't think he sucks, but I don't think he's the answer either.

He Hasn't gotten the ball!

 

[SECTION 11]

Re: Re: Re: Is our Shipp sinking?

Originally posted by Phill11
He Hasn't gotten the ball!

He had 40 more carries than he had last year, and as far as Emmitt getting the ball in the red zone, Emmitt only had two TD's last season.