Is our Shipp sinking?

[cardsunsfan]

yeah but he seemed to be stuffed in the red zone a lot last year Is there any place we can get stats on how many times a running back gets the ball in the red zone?!

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
Is there any place we can get stats on how many times a running back gets the ball in the red zone?!

Inside the 20 (from NFL.com's Situational Stats);

Shipp: 29 attempts for 79 yards (2.9 ypc), zero TD's, long of 11.
Smith: 12 attempts for 8 yards (0.7 ypc), 2 TD's, long of 4.

Blake: 45 attempts, 19 completions for 125 yards (42.2%) 9 TD's, 1 pick.
McCown: 20 attempts, 11 completions for 70 yards (55.0%) 3 TD's, 1 pick.


I can see why they threw it 65 times in the redzone. They scored a TD every 5.4 passes.
Running Shipp or Smith got them a TD every 20 runs.

Why run it in the redzone if your RB can't find the endzone?

 

[artp]

Shipp has done nothing but earn the #1 RB position. I mean that as a compliment. But, until he becomes a 1000 yrd rusher, the question will be indoubt to me. Everything points to Shipp being a Playoff caliber RB, and he will benefit from Coach Green. If a RB is BPA on Day 2, get him. Forget about RB on Day 1 of the Draft.

 

[cardsunsfan]

I guess what would be more interesting is when we get it down to like the three two or one. We never seemed to give the ball to ship in that situation. We gave it to Smith a couple times if I remember correctly. How many times were we in that situation and how many times did shipp get the ball?

 

[vikesfan]

Coaching can only do some much. I don't know if it will turn all these guys around. You need difference makers on offense and defense. If guys are hard workers, overachievers, above average that is great but you really need great players. They produce great plays and those win games.

Shipp is not an McAllister or Tomlinson or Bennett and never will be. That is what you want. You need big time producers to win. Now I don't think any RB in the draft this year is in the class of the above 3 backs either. I would not draft an RB high> F.A. is worth a look (Duce) or trade (Dillon) or just wait a year you can't improve every position at once. One thing DG likes is a RB with speed.

He likes 2 or 3 awesome WRs a solid TE and O LINE>>> and a rb with speed who can burn the defense on the 2nd level. Such backs are not easy to acquire. At the very least Shipp can be DG's hardnosed back to spell the speed back.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by vikesfan
Shipp is not an McAllister or Tomlinson or Bennett and never will be.

Not many people are Mcallister or Tomlinson etc.... But you dont have to be a 1600 yard a year back in this league to be successful. You can be a 1300 yard back in this league and be a more than capable starter which is the category Shipp falls into IMO! Yet he hasent been given the opportunity from beginning to end. This year he will have that!

You must be kidding about Bennet right? In three years he has had one good year. Not great just good! So to even put him in the same category as a Tomlnson or Mcallister is just silly! I think you are typing with your Viking heart rather than your Viking head!

 

[vikesfan]

Maybe you don't follow the Vikes that closely. Bennett played 1 year of college ball he was a raw NFL rookie and considering this his first year was excellent. That first year he was hurt and very inexperienced and he put up good numbers despite these two things. Check the numbers. If I recall correctly he did a 4.0. In fact after he got hurt and couldn't play he watched and learnt and when he came back he exploded and was much better. Year two he made the pro-bowl. Nuff said. Year three he was hurt most of this year so can't judge him really.

He made the Pro-bowl after 1 year of college ball and less then 1 season of NFL ball, he is a very good RB. He also played behind one of the worst lines his first year and a line not much better in year 2.

Maybe those 2 guys are better RBs but he is in that same class the upper echelon of elite NFL RBs. Not in the Shipp class.

 

[buff17]

Thomas Jones is a free agent........

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Re: Re: Re: Is our Shipp sinking?

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Ditto. He isn't one of the better backs in the league.

He's a good back, but if we have the chance to add an LT, or a Faulk, or a Portis-type player, we can't ignore that.

True dat!

But I think he is one of the better backs in the league. But fumblin and no TD's has to get you questioning if he can do it.

BTW - Faulk is no longer in the LT, Portis league.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Originally posted by buff17
Thomas Jones is a free agent........

No cursing on this board please


Plus if we call him up hemight break his hand!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

draft Maurice Clarett in round 2.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by vikesfan
Maybe you don't follow the Vikes that closely. Bennett played 1 year of college ball he was a raw NFL rookie and considering this his first year was excellent. That first year he was hurt and very inexperienced and he put up good numbers despite these two things. Check the numbers. If I recall correctly he did a 4.0. In fact after he got hurt and couldn't play he watched and learnt and when he came back he exploded and was much better. Year two he made the pro-bowl. Nuff said. Year three he was hurt most of this year so can't judge him really.

He made the Pro-bowl after 1 year of college ball and less then 1 season of NFL ball, he is a very good RB. He also played behind one of the worst lines his first year and a line not much better in year 2.

Maybe those 2 guys are better RBs but he is in that same class the upper echelon of elite NFL RBs. Not in the Shipp class.

I dont care how many years of college ball he played that really has no bearing on this converstaion. We are talking about NFL production.

He has rushed for 682 yards one year 447 for another and then had one break-out year of 1296. Thats countem one year of productive football for a starting NFL RB out of three.

People are judging Marcell because he has been a little knicked here and there so how come Bennett cant be judged under the same instance? He certainly hasent shown an ability to stay healthy. In his one good year his TD production was mediocre at best with 5 as well.

To try and put him in the elite class of NFL RBs with production like that and never having a 1500+ yard season is laughable to say the least! But hey your a Vikings fan I shouldnt expect anything less.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I vote we go with Shipp and Smith for 2004. D line, and the defense in general has to be the top priority for areas of improvement in this years draft and FA.

Shipp and Smith are good enough so that we can focus on defense.

 

[wierwolf]

You guys are crazy!!! Before Quan and last season every one of yall were saying that Shipp was our savior. Now we are talking like maybe he isn't the answer? Whatever..... I guess you needed someone else to be a scapegoat too... I think with Green's Gameplan, Shipp will be utilized to his potential then we won't be talking this crap. he was banged up at the end of the season because there was no blocking. But he still went on the field and played through it.

 

[JeffGollin]

Why all the negative talk about Shipp recently?
Actually, the first negative talk I've heard is on this specific thread.

Marcel's fine. He showed that if he sees a hole, he will hit it and drag tacklers with him.

Thing of it is, though, that too often (as in previous years other than 2002), there weren't any holes and our RB's would get hit practically at time of handoff.

Chalk that up to subpar offensive line play and also our inability to make decent presenap reads and check out of running plays designed to go directly into a blitz or toward the strength of the defense.

Of course, there predictibly will be some negativity about our own RB's as the draft draws nearer and some fans grow inclined to get star-struck by one or another pheenom RB coming out this year. Happens every Spring.

 

[vikesfan]

I dont care how many years of college ball he played that really has no bearing on this converstaion. We are talking about NFL production.

ANSWER> Uh sure it does matter if a guy played 1 year of college ball and was a track guy that means his NFL production will be lower --- and is a project who time must be give to develop. That was year one.

QUOTE>He has rushed for 682 yards one year

ANSWER> How many games played as a rookie out of 1 year of college ball with an atrocious line. IIRC he got to a 4 average. That is an excellent showing. He was below 4 got hurt LEARNT the game came back and got over 4 rushing to get his average up to 4.


QUOTE>447 for another

ANSWER> look how many games were played and carries recieved was seriously hurt - getting that much was great!

QUOTE> and then had one break-out year of 1296.

ANSWER> made the pro-bowl. WAS HEALTHY.

QUOTE> Thats countem one year of productive football for a starting NFL RB out of three.

ANSWER> didn't play three I explained that.

QUOTE> People are judging Marcell because he has been a little knicked here and there so how come Bennett cant be judged under the same instance? He certainly hasent shown an ability to stay healthy.

ANSWER> No idea on Shipp's nicks judge him by talent level and average. He got under 4 iirc. He lacks speed.

QUOTE> In his one good year his TD production was mediocre at best with 5 as well.

ANSWER> they replaced him with another back for scoring TDS - again that is a unfair measure to use if you are getting replaced in the redzone.

QUOTE> To try and put him in the elite class of NFL RBs with production like that and never having a 1500+ yard season is laughable to say the least! But hey your a Vikings fan I shouldnt expect anything less.

ANSWER> 1 healthy year 1 pro-bowl! I didn't put him there, Vikes fans didn't put him there, maybe you being a Cards fan aren't that familiar with the pro-bowl it's a place where you go if you are Super ELITE.

PS Any comments I made on Shipp is based on his average and comments fans made here, Cards fans on his playing style and ability. Discounting the tds scored thing since he was replaced by another back.

You think Shipp can have a breakout year I know Bennett can that is the difference.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I say the Shipp/Emmitt combo should be just fine this year.

I think they make a good pair. I also liked what Anderson brought to the table as #3. It sure would be nice if he indeed can return.

He's got the breakaway speed that both Shipp and Emmitt lack.
Emmitt had it at one time, and still is not as feeble and over-the-hill as some have seemed to suppose at times. Shipp never had it to begin with.

I think those who point to the ineffective line play are closest to why neither Shipp nor Emmitt didn't "play better". And don't forget Emmitt's injury. I was impressed with how well he came back from that.

The thing I liked about Damian was, when he's in he seems to have that knack for breaking the big play.

Shipp in more of a power, inside runner.

Emmitt is the most versatile, and a great option in possible passing situations.

As to them fitting in to Dennis Green's style. I would refer back to something Billick once said: "Dennis asked me to try to blend Bill Walsh's passing game concepts with Joe Gibbs power running game."
I indeed think that is an accurate assessment of Green's style.
I think the Emmitt/Shipp combo fits that bill sufficiently.

I think the platoon system with them is just fine. If Damian can't come back, then I think acquiring another RB should be looked at. Although I would not totally rule out Scobey just yet either. I do like the job he did returining kick offs.
I wish Prentice was still here. I like Josh Rue, but isn't he a FB?

No one has brought this up, but I was dissappointed in Hodgin's play last year, especially his blocking. I hope that was more due to the play calling/line play/ etc. and that we see more production out of him this year. Should he not step it up, then I think it's time to give Rue the shot there next year.

....and Steve Bush, I consider a valuable cog in the machine. He has proved to be a great addition with his versatility at TE/FB. He opens up some nice additional options when he is on the field.

 

[vikesfan]

DG had a fast solid runner in R Smith and then Bennett. He has bigger guys in Hoard and M Williams.

You need to have 1 back with speed.

Also whether a guy is a power back a speed back or various combos of such, he has to reach 4.0 if he isn't then you are in trouble. iirc neither Smith nor Shipp hit 4.0!

 

[schel]

Originally posted by vikesfan
Also whether a guy is a power back a speed back or various combos of such, he has to reach 4.0 if he isn't then you are in trouble. iirc neither Smith nor Shipp hit 4.0!

What's with the 4.0 stuff? You don't mean a 40 time do you? That can't be right...

 

[SECTION 11]

ypc

 

[vikesfan]

4.0 = ypc = yards per carry

It's a simple way to tell if your starting RB is doing his job or not as a running back. He needs to be going at at least 4.0.

 

[schel]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
ypc

Oh ok, that makes sense. Yes this year both couldn't get 4.0 YPC. Last year Shipp had a 4.4 on 188 attempts. I'm still going to put much of the blame on the OLine until the 2004 season gets underway.

 

[Loyal Card 17]

what is all this lame butt talk about the cardinals needing a runningback. quit it. you guys sound like a bunch of idoits. same people that make trolling easy. quit wasting your time this mute discussion. bottom line shipp is the man.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Loyal Card 17
what is all this lame butt talk about the cardinals needing a runningback. quit it. you guys sound like a bunch of idoits. same people that make trolling easy. quit wasting your time this mute discussion. bottom line shipp is the man.

"Quit lame butt idiot troll, Shipp is the man."

I never quite thought of it that way.

Damn, that's a terrific argument you make there 17...


You disagree? Fine. No reason to be a jackass about it. Talk about trolling.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Loyal Card 17
you guys sound like a bunch of idoits. same people that make trolling easy.

Next time you call me an idiot, please spell it correctly.
Thanks