Is Sam Montgomery worth a high 2nd?

[SissyBoyFloyd]

After reading up on him a couple weeks ago, I came away wondering if he would fit our team as well as others. I am sort of off of him right now. Plus he seems to be falling or as fallen quite a lot for whatever reason. I would much rather we go with Jordan if we have a chance in the 1st and just stick with the OL for rounds 2 and/or 3 and 4.

 

[Twist18]

Anytime we talk about 3-4 OLBs I go back to this old article and how it made alot of sense.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=439180&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[binkar]

My book on Montgomery is that he's 6-3 260 with a pre-combine estimated forty of 4.59.

Don't let that pre-combine time mislead you. His best official time since then (on his pro day) was 4.89, and he's considered by one writer to be slow off the mark coming off the edge.

I realize that there are a few solid but unspectacular DE's/OLB's (like Okafor and Montgomery) who could provide us with competent linebacking depth, but our real need is for at least one explosive edge-rusher. #38 is too high for Montgomery or Okafor in light of other talent and other needs.

Agreed. I just don't see any of the round two options being a significant upgrade over what we currently have. They would be great depth, yes, but I don't see them as forces off the edge. Unless Tank Carradine falls that far as a result of his knee.

This is one of the reasons I'm in favor of taking Jordan, Ansah, or Mingo at 7 over either of the guards (assuming the tackles are gone). They all have a level of risk, but I think they could all develop into great edge rushers. I also think there is a better chance of getting a great guard in rounds 2-4 in Warford, Long, Pugh, Winters, or Bailey than getting a great pass rusher in those rounds.

 

[Mitch]

Agreed. I just don't see any of the round two options being a significant upgrade over what we currently have. They would be great depth, yes, but I don't see them as forces off the edge. Unless Tank Carradine falls that far as a result of his knee.

This is one of the reasons I'm in favor of taking Jordan, Ansah, or Mingo at 7 over either of the guards (assuming the tackles are gone). They all have a level of risk, but I think they could all develop into great edge rushers. I also think there is a better chance of getting a great guard in rounds 2-4 in Warford, Long, Pugh, Winters, or Bailey than getting a great pass rusher in those rounds.

Agreed 100%. This is why the best and most explosive edge rushers every draft are scooped up early. The highest we've picked one was to reach for Cody Brown in the second round---and usually by then it is just what it was: a reach.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Don't pay attention to bodha on this subject. I've already shown in other threads that he has his quote about wrong and out f context. Montgomery said he didn't give full effort versus lesser opponenents, like almost every player does, but gets up for the big teams, again like almost every other player. The quote is much ado about nothing.

As for Warford, how does bodha know his mental capacities compared to montgoery's? The NFL is filled with too level players that are not all that intelligent.

 

[Cardiac]

Anytime we talk about 3-4 OLBs I go back to this old article and how it made alot of sense.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=439180&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

That is a great read, thanks for sharing buddy.

Agreed. I just don't see any of the round two options being a significant upgrade over what we currently have. They would be great depth, yes, but I don't see them as forces off the edge. Unless Tank Carradine falls that far as a result of his knee.

This is one of the reasons I'm in favor of taking Jordan, Ansah, or Mingo at 7 over either of the guards (assuming the tackles are gone). They all have a level of risk, but I think they could all develop into great edge rushers. I also think there is a better chance of getting a great guard in rounds 2-4 in Warford, Long, Pugh, Winters, or Bailey than getting a great pass rusher in those rounds.

I agree with this except I still take Jordan or Mingo before one of the LT's

 

[JeffGollin]

Agreed 100%. This is why the best and most explosive edge rushers every draft are scooped up early. The highest we've picked one was to reach for Cody Brown in the second round---and usually by then it is just what it was: a reach.

Excellent! Whenever you are tempted to use our #38 pick on someone like Okafor or Montgomery, just repeat to yourself: "Cody Brown...Cody Brown...Cody Brown..." and the temptation will melt away.

 

[az jam]

Excellent! Whenever you are tempted to use our #38 pick on someone like Okafor or Montgomery, just repeat to yourself: "Cody Brown...Cody Brown...Cody Brown..." and the temptation will melt away.

Bad memories, damn what a bust.

 

[Twist18]

That is a great read, thanks for sharing buddy.




I agree with this except I still take Jordan or Mingo before one of the LT's

I was looking at Mingo's 3 cone time and it was 6.89 from nfl.com

 

[WildBB]

Excellent! Whenever you are tempted to use our #38 pick on someone like Okafor or Montgomery, just repeat to yourself: "Cody Brown...Cody Brown...Cody Brown..." and the temptation will melt away.

I don't know Jeff. Cody Brown was never touted as a possible 1st Rd. pick.

Okafer and Montgomery have been in that category in various parts of the draft process.

At #38 neither of them would be a reach at that point and could push for starting early in the first yr. Possibly by mid-season or before.

There are many choices at the 2nd Rd. pick. But I'd like an OLB by the 3rd Rd. Just don't know if there will be any impact OLB that late. Michael Buchanan, Jamie Collins?

As has been mentioned, the FSU kid Carradine is also an option at #38.

If they go OL in the first, if they like one of these OLB's here in the 2nd, they should pull that trigger. Otherwise there should be excellent Saftey's available and I'd go that way. Take an OL in the 3rd again.

 

[JeffGollin]

I don't know Jeff. Cody Brown was never touted as a possible 1st Rd.

Nor was Okafor or Montgomery. Both of them have been discussed as #38 possibilities. Cody was also a 2nd round projection. We're talking an apples to apples here.

All three IMO have or had solid all around ability but miss that one special attribute (like speed, power, quickness, instincts or smarts) that separate a starter or potential standout from a journeyman.

It has nothing to do about risk vs. less risk at #38 as opposed to #7 and everything to do with drafting a cog vs. a difference maker at #38. Cody turned out to be a wasted pick. So, too. would these two guys. In my opinion they'd be reaches at #38 or #238 because they both fall below the threshold for what's required for an OLB in our system.

 

[WildBB]

Nor was Okafor or Montgomery. Both of them have been discussed as #38 possibilities. Cody was also a 2nd round projection. We're talking an apples to apples here.

All three IMO have or had solid all around ability but miss that one special attribute (like speed, power, quickness, instincts or smarts) that separate a starter or potential standout from a journeyman.

It has nothing to do about risk vs. less risk at #38 as opposed to #7 and everything to do with drafting a cog vs. a difference maker at #38. Cody turned out to be a wasted pick. So, too. would these two guys. In my opinion they'd be reaches at #38 or #238 because they both fall below the threshold for what's required for an OLB in our system.

So do you see Acho as a failure in our system? These two mtl have better careers, imo. At least as good.

As I stated too, I'd be just as happy if we went a few other ways as well.

There is a bit of a consensus here though so far. Okafor went in the 2nd Rd. of MD's board draft, and Montgomery is getting some here. Carradine is another option there as well. So OLB in the 2nd is very much in play, imo.

 

[JeffGollin]

So do you see Acho as a failure in our system? These two mtl have better careers, imo. At least as good.

As I stated too, I'd be just as happy if we went a few other ways as well.

There is a bit of a consensus here though so far. Okafor went in the 2nd Rd. of MD's board draft, and Montgomery is getting some here. Carradine is another option there as well. So OLB in the 2nd is very much in play, imo.

I see Acho as a "surprise" - i.e. good enough to get the job done over on the left or strong side, but not prototypical. His one special feature might be his smarts and work ethic - and that plus better than average strength may set him apart from the ordinary.

 

[WildBB]

I see Acho as a "surprise" - i.e. good enough to get the job done over on the left or strong side, but not prototypical. His one special feature might be his smarts and work ethic - and that plus better than average strength may set him apart from the ordinary.

OK, then even though he's enjoyed a fairly good success on the weak side putting him on the strong side, his natural fit, mtl should make him even better.

So everyone wants a rush OLB in the first round. But if Eric Fisher drops into the #7 slot it's not going to happen, No matter what! He'll be above all the OLB's on their chart. So in that event, let's say we kick this around some more. Who do you like?

 

[JeffGollin]

So do you see Acho as a failure in our system? These two mtl have better careers, imo. At least as good.

As I stated too, I'd be just as happy if we went a few other ways as well.

There is a bit of a consensus here though so far. Okafor went in the 2nd Rd. of MD's board draft, and Montgomery is getting some here. Carradine is another option there as well. So OLB in the 2nd is very much in play, imo.

OK, then even though he's enjoyed a fairly good success on the weak side putting him on the strong side, his natural fit, mtl should make him even better.

So everyone wants a rush OLB in the first round. But if Eric Fisher drops into the #7 slot it's not going to happen, No matter what! He'll be above all the OLB's on their chart. So in that event, let's say we kick this around some more. Who do you like?

Personally, unless Dion Jordan slips down the greased pole to #7, my order of preference would be Joeckel, Fisher, Warmack, Johnson and Cooper (without much space between the five).

The issue then becomes - if we go OT with #7, what do we do at 38?

I'm just saying that I don't think Okafor or Montgomery are good enough to draft that high or special enough to fill our need for an elite pass rusher.

I'm not crazy about the players available at #38 (CBS has Hunt leaving the board at #37). Unless a talented edge-rusher (or someone else we really liked) fell to us, this might be a good place to (a) trade up for someone we really want, (b) trade back for an extra pick or two or (c) grab a QBOF like Manuel or Tyler Wilson.

 

[WildBB]

(a) trade up for someone we really want, (b) trade back for an extra pick or two or (c) grab a QBOF like Manuel or Tyler Wilson.

I'd think if you trade back in the 2nd you could have your pick of either, mtl.

You could throw Glennon or "Bray into that mix as well.

 

[JeffGollin]

I'd think if you trade back in the 2nd you could have your pick of either, mtl.

You could throw Glennon or "Bray into that mix as well.

Maybe Bray. I didn't like what I saw from Glennon despite his rocket-arm - i.e. he's a tall, lanky kid with a long wind-up & whose arms and legs fly all over the place each time he throws (not exactly the poster-child of consistency due to inconsistent mechanics due to his gangly frame). He reminds me a little of Mark McGwire's brother.

 

[oaken1]

Nor was Okafor or Montgomery. Both of them have been discussed as #38 possibilities. Cody was also a 2nd round projection. We're talking an apples to apples here.

All three IMO have or had solid all around ability but miss that one special attribute (like speed, power, quickness, instincts or smarts) that separate a starter or potential standout from a journeyman.

It has nothing to do about risk vs. less risk at #38 as opposed to #7 and everything to do with drafting a cog vs. a difference maker at #38. Cody turned out to be a wasted pick. So, too. would these two guys. In my opinion they'd be reaches at #38 or #238 because they both fall below the threshold for what's required for an OLB in our system.

several early prognostications had Montgomery going in the first round........he has the best overall career stats of anyone in the LSU front seven...... for my draft money....montgomery in the second is a FAR better choice than Mingo in the first