Is Their A Chance JJ Could Stay In PHX?

[JCSunsfan]

If Hawks could pull out, we'd be fxxxed. At this stage, we don't want Joe back and we are in not so good negotiation position. Remotely, GS might listen to a JR for Joe and pick deal.
But I really don't think the league would allow Hawks get away with it without any punishment. So, ultimately, I expect the deal to go through as reported.

Interesting little line JC said in the press conference. When addressing the fact that the team is waiting for Atlanta to fix its internal problems he said,

"We still have all our options available to us."

That means that we still have the right to match if Atlanta backs out of the deal, and we likely will.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

If JJ signs a max deal, he will be virtually untradeable in a year. Its above his real market value. The Hawks are overpaying because they are such a sorry franchise.

If we were to match Joe's deal from Atlanta there is no way he would be traded anytime in the next 3 seasons.

Even if there was a taker for his contract, the Suns wouldn't move him unless it was an unbelievable deal.

It would be a horrible business move since 20 million is paid upfront.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

If JJ signs a max deal, he will be virtually untradeable in a year. Its above his real market value. The Hawks are overpaying because they are such a sorry franchise.

I cant get over this whole market value thing...Dont you guys get it...14 million a year IS market value. I would love to get Joe at a lesser cost but exactly whose figures are you using when you say how untradeable this guy is. I understand why Joe is pissed about being low balled b/c the Suns should know better than anyone about his value. He is a better player than redd and allen is alot older so to say he should be making less than those two guys is ridiculous.

Everyone wants to say "hes only had one good year, hes not worth the money"....do you guys really think that the kid has topped out and had his career year at 24? I look at it differently. even if he only improves a little bit, he is a 20 point scorer who can handle the ball and pass at 6-7. Bad news Suns fan, 14 million is the going rate for players of that caliber. If Joe comes back (and while im upset at both sides for the way this has gone down, all it will take is some spin doctoring by JJ and the Suns) he is def. at the very least a top ten two guard in this league. So 14 million in the crazy a$$ NBA w/ its screwed up economics is actually not that bad for the potential AND results you get w/ Joey joe joe shabadoo (thats a gratuitous simpsons reference, i apologize)

 

[Dustbuster]

A question: has JJ actually signed an offer sheet from Atlanta? If I'm not mistaken, the problem at the moment is that their Governor is not willing to sign off on the frontloaded contract, as it is his money (about 8 mil - he is a 30% partner) that will be going out in the signing bonus.

The Suns don't have anything yet to match. If Atlanta's offer falls through (which would be absurdly bad from them from a PR and business standpoint - they have a hard enough time getting FAs to come there anyway), it would be a whole new ballgame. I would love to get JJ at the 6 years 60 million offer. That's four million less per year on average, and gives the Suns a lot more flexibility - and gives JJ a much more tradeable contract, should it come to that down the road.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I cant get over this whole market value thing...Dont you guys get it...14 million a year IS market value. I would love to get Joe at a lesser cost but exactly whose figures are you using when you say how untradeable this guy is. I understand why Joe is pissed about being low balled b/c the Suns should know better than anyone about his value. He is a better player than redd and allen is alot older so to say he should be making less than those two guys is ridiculous.

No, its not market value.

Its an inflated value that Atlanta has to offer to try to get someone to play for their sorry team. Go read the Atlanta boards, they are all ticked that they have to pay so much to get players to come play for thmeAll things are not equal. The chance to play for a quality team, with quality mgmt, and have a chance at a championship plays into the market.

 

[clif]

So on Espn radio last night... Lebowitz (sp?) said that over the last month or so JJ was working out at the arena between 12am and 3am... so he could avoid Suns management. what the hell?

 

[coloradosun]

If JJ signs a max deal, he will be virtually untradeable in a year. Its above his real market value. The Hawks are overpaying because they are such a sorry franchise.

Joe has another option is he is forced to come back to the Suns, he can just sign the tendered offer good for a year and then become an unrestricted FA.

He helps the Suns for a year and then moves on if he likes. Or by playing for the Suns for one more season he may find out he is not the "4th option" and want to sign on for a longer duration.

 

[cepstrum]

No, its not market value.

Its an inflated value that Atlanta has to offer to try to get someone to play for their sorry team. Go read the Atlanta boards, they are all ticked that they have to pay so much to get players to come play for thmeAll things are not equal. The chance to play for a quality team, with quality mgmt, and have a chance at a championship plays into the market.

The market value for shooting guards this year was set by the sonics (allen), the bucks (simmons and redd), and the cavs (hughes). Go look at their contracts and then tell me that its just atlanta that's paying. Everyone is paying out the wazoo for starting caliber 2 guards this year. Im not sure why, but it happened last year with big men also.

 

[Dustbuster]

Cepstrum is right: market value is NOT our personal perception of what a player is worth, but is what teams are willing to pay for that player. What teams are willing to pay for a starting caliber shooting guard this year year is between 65 and 90 million, with some variation in length to those contracts. JJ is ranked in that same tier with Allen, Redd, and Hughes. That's general consensus. And market value for that tier is what they are all getting paid.

 

[fordronken]

Cepstrum is right: market value is NOT our personal perception of what a player is worth, but is what teams are willing to pay for that player. What teams are willing to pay for a starting caliber shooting guard this year year is between 65 and 90 million, with some variation in length to those contracts. JJ is ranked in that same tier with Allen, Redd, and Hughes. That's general consensus. And market value for that tier is what they are all getting paid.

If a bunch of rich people got together and decided to pay me and my friends 50 million dollars each to scratch our asses, it does not mean we aren't overpaid.

And if the teams that sign these players for these deals end up submarining their franchises because of it, does that change whether they were worth it?

Stupid GMs overpay all the time. No matter who else is doing it, it's still overpaying.

 

[Dustbuster]

If a bunch of rich people got together and decided to pay me and my friends 50 million dollars each to scratch our asses, it does not mean we aren't overpaid.

And if the teams that sign these players for these deals end up submarining their franchises because of it, does that change whether they were worth it?

Stupid GMs overpay all the time. No matter who else is doing it, it's still overpaying.

Except I'm not quite sure that's the point. The point is the the definition of market value. Probably most things are overpriced, but the way that capitolism works is that supply and demand tends to set the price, the market value of things. Just because I don't think that $1.50 per pound is a fair market price for apples doesn't mean that I get to arbitrarily set another price. And just because you don't think that JJ is worth the proffered contract doesn't mean that it isn't market value.