It’s now or never.

[Dr. Jones]

Uh, yeah I got nothing but disdain for this team right now.

Yeah..... Screw the division. We need to win 3 for the 7 seed at this point.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It all boils down to Kliffy and Kyler. While I wish Kliff would be gone, he will be back next year... If he doesn’t develop his head-coaching capacity, AND, if Kyler doesn’t refine his throwing mechanics, his pre-snap reads and his ability to execute in the pocket, we will continue to be what we are... a team entirely dependent upon Kyler Murray making magical, drive-making plays with his legs... Which, more and more teams are learning how to contain - especially since they know how much he struggles when forced to remain in the pocket.

yeah... we're basically the Mike Vick Atlanta Falcons right now. If Kyler hadn't banged up his shoulder, I bet we win today and to be honest, do so pretty easily simply because of his legs and the D playing well against an awful Pats offense. But if he's not going to run like he did earlier in the season this is a woefully mediocre at best team.

 

[Chopper0080]

We are not good enough to win when Kyler does not play above average football. I don't feel like that is abnormal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We are not good enough to win when Kyler does not play above average football. I don't feel like that is abnormal.

nope. he has to play at a near MVP level for us to win most weeks. This week all he had to do was be solid. He wasn't. He gets blame along with Stiff Dingsbury and Zane and Kirk.

 

[Chopper0080]

yeah... we're basically the Mike Vick Atlanta Falcons right now. If Kyler hadn't banged up his shoulder, I bet we win today and to be honest, do so pretty easily simply because of his legs and the D playing well against an awful Pats offense. But if he's not going to run like he did earlier in the season this is a woefully mediocre at best team.

I feel like this is a pretty solid comp. Kyler has to develop his ability to make plays from the pocket in order for this offense to take a step forward. We just do not have the power running offense to make up for a unrefined passing QB when his bets weapon, running, is taken away. We tried today, but are not physical enough in our interior.

 

[82CardsGrad]

We are not good enough to win when Kyler does not play above average football. I don't feel like that is abnormal.

That’s a cute way to sugar-coat a very serious problem.
We can’t win, and haven’t won, unless Kyler is consistently making drive-changing/game-changing plays with his legs.

 

[Chopper0080]

nope. he has to play at a near MVP level for us to win most weeks. This week all he had to do was be solid. He wasn't. He gets blame along with Stiff Dingsbury and Zane and Kirk.

I know you are probably not on the positive spin side, but it is kinda cool that we went on the road, vs New England, early start time, and had a chacne to kick a winning field goal when our offense was basically a running game.

 

[Chopper0080]

That’s a cute way to sugar-coat a very serious problem.
We can’t win, and haven’t won, unless Kyler is consistently making drive-changing/game-changing plays with his legs.

He is not a refined passer so that is the only way he can be a special player at this point of his career. He was very raw coming out of college. This is what learning at the NFL level looks like and why most guys can't do it.

 

[SoonerLou]

That’s a cute way to sugar-coat a very serious problem.
We can’t win, and haven’t won, unless Kyler is consistently making drive-changing/game-changing plays with his legs.

Is it Kyler not executing the passing game like he should or is this offense just not that complex in terms of passing the football (like the NFL twitter heads are coming out of the woodwork saying)

Probably a combination of both. However, as has been stated...Kliff's offense were at their best when a QB was scrambling around making plays. What is the counter when that doesnt happen?

He's still learning and when the coach is still learning...well it shows up in execution.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I know you are probably not on the positive spin side, but it is kinda cool that we went on the road, vs New England, early start time, and had a chacne to kick a winning field goal when our offense was basically a running game.

dude... I've watched the Pats more than any one should this year because of fantasy. that team sucks.

 

[AZman5103]

I know you are probably not on the positive spin side, but it is kinda cool that we went on the road, vs New England, early start time, and had a chacne to kick a winning field goal when our offense was basically a running game.

I agree, if we are at the point of just admitting we are pretty far from being a "top" team in the nfl. We have shown we can hang with anyone, which is a major step up from where we were 2 years ago, and an improvement over last year.

We have shown that we can stay in pretty much every game, but we are not good enough to win a lot of those games. When we play poorly, we lose.

A "really good team"..the next step up, still wins the majority of the games they play poorly in.

 

[SoonerLou]

dude... I've watched the Pats more than any one should this year because of fantasy. that team sucks.

They arent good, but I'm not in shock we lost either.

They played the Chiefs and Seahawks very tough this year. They also destroyed the Raiders.

Bill Belicheck is the X factor.

Edit: I'd also argue Cam lost them the Bills game.

 

[Arz101]

dude... I've watched the Pats more than any one should this year because of fantasy. that team sucks.

Pat's this year are a bottom 10 team.Cards let them hang around until they lost the game. This tells Cardinals are a low energy mediocre team ala the current Bears team. The worst part is Cardinals believe they have their QBTOF. This is scary.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[Cheesebeef]

They arent good, but I'm not in shock we lost either.

They played the Chiefs and Seahawks very tough this year. They also destroyed the Raiders.

Bill Belicheck is the X factor.

Edit: I'd also argue Cam lost them the Bills game.

if we hadn't come out, taken a 10-0 lead or if I thought the Pats actually played WELL, I wouldn't be shocked. But we did take a 10-0 lead and the Pats played like trash and we still lost.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Pat's this year are a bottom 10 team.Cards let them hang around until they lost the game. This tells Cardinals are a low energy mediocre team ala the current Bears team. The worst part is Cardinals believe they have their QBTOF. This is scary.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

the only thing that's scary to me is having a coach who I am almost positive will blow our chances at ever being really good during Kyler's rookie contract.

whether Kyler is a QBOTF isn't scary. Ain't a certainty either. But it's nothing scary.

 

[Chopper0080]

and to be honest, this is what happens to 2nd year QBs. The book on Murray is to keep him in the pocket, don't let him get anything deep, and make him dink and dunk down the field. Until he shows he can beat it, he will see it consistently moving forward.

 

[iLLmatiC]

dude... I've watched the Pats more than any one should this year because of fantasy. that team sucks.

Let's start with who their #1 receiver is and then end with who their QB is.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I know you are probably not on the positive spin side, but it is kinda cool that we went on the road, vs New England, early start time, and had a chacne to kick a winning field goal when our offense was basically a running game.

When you look at the pats stats it’s difficult to find a silver lining in a loss.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Yea its a chicken or the egg situation. Is it Kyler not executing the passing game like he should or is this offense just not that complex in terms of passing the football (like the NFL twitter heads are coming out of the woodwork saying)

Probably a combination of both. However, as has been stated...Kliff's offense were at their best when a QB was scrambling around making plays. What is the counter when that doesnt happen?

He's still learning and when the coach is still learning...well it shows up in execution.

Here’s the bottom line... Each year, or every other year, there is a QB that is gonna “change the NFL game in ways nobody has ever before.” And it’s always about that QB’s running ability. And, many of those QB’s did have a measure of success for a period of time. But it never lasts... UNLESS, the QB was able to become a true/left NFL pocket passer.
That is NOT purely coincidental. While it’s nice to have a QB that can run, consistent/sustained success in the NFL comes only when a QB can consistently operate IN THE POCKET.
Look at Lamar lately and what is happening in Baltimore.
Then contrast all of that with Russell Wilson, who worked his ASS off to become one of the elite pocket passers in the NFL.
We’ll see this off season if Kyler dedicates himself the way Wilson has.
As for Kliffy - he’s toast.

 

[Arz101]

the only thing that's scary to me is having a coach who I am almost positive will blow our chances at ever being really good during Kyler's rookie contract.

whether Kyler is a QBOTF isn't scary. Ain't a certainty either. But it's nothing scary.

Kyler is doing good. So did Trubisky two years ago. Nothing is guaranteed in this league unless you are THE Patrick Mahomes. Right now Murray is giving somewhat Deshaun Watson like performance. Hope it continues.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[Chopper0080]

dude... I've watched the Pats more than any one should this year because of fantasy. that team sucks.

I feel like the Pats are in the middle 20 teams of the NFL. 6 teams tend to be really good. 6 teams tend to be god awful. The rest seem to be in a lump of up and down week to week.

 

[Chopper0080]

When you look at the pats stats it’s difficult to find a silver lining in a loss.

I guess I look at losing games to good coaches you should have won as a prerequisite to winning those games.

 

[SoonerLou]

Here’s the bottom line... Each year, or every other year, there is a QB that is gonna “change the NFL game in ways nobody has ever before.” And it’s always about that QB’s running ability. And, many of those QB’s did have a measure of success for a period of time. But it never lasts... UNLESS, the QB was able to become a true/left NFL pocket passer.
That is NOT purely coincidental. While it’s nice to have a QB that can run, consistent/sustained success in the NFL comes only when a QB can consistently operate IN THE POCKET.
Look at Lamar lately and what is happening in Baltimore.
Then contrast all of that with Russell Wilson, who worked his ASS off to become one of the elite pocket passers in the NFL.
We’ll see this off season if Kyler dedicates himself the way Wilson has.
As for Kliffy - he’s toast.

TBF Kyler was at one point 2nd in the pocket according to PFF before the Bills game.

He's got a ways to go, but I still think he's ahead of Wilson at the same age.

I was talking more about scheme. Maybe Kyler cant execute certain plays, maybe we dont have the talent on the outside to execute like we'd like or maybe Kliff's still learning an NFL level passing game plan. Could be a combination of all three.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I feel like the Pats are in the middle 20 teams of the NFL. 6 teams tend to be really good. 6 teams tend to be god awful. The rest seem to be in a lump of up and down week to week.

yeah... but we played them in a down week... and still lost. I don't see positives there, especially when one of the main reasons we lost was the same end of game situation that's already burned us twice in the last four games. that is why I'm so down here... because it looks like Stiff Dingsbury isn't progressing as a coach at crunch time. Completely curling up in the fetal position, going completely conservative with play calling and praying your bad kicker is going hit a game-winning FG again when you know he's shaky... AND that you'd STILL be giving the ball back to the Pats with a lot of time to tie it, knowing your own team gives up last second drives and FGs at the end of halves and games is a problem. And don't even get me started on why he'd call a timeout before 3rd down and giving the Pats more time when even if we held, best case was us getting the ball with 10 seconds left inside our own 20.

It's a bigger picture thing for me today and it has to do with my having less and less faith in our Coach who I have seen almost zero sign of growth this season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

TBF Kyler was at one point 2nd in the pocket according to PFF before the Bills game.

He's got a ways to go, but I still think he's ahead of Wilson at the same age.

no way. They didn't ask as much of Wilson in his second year as we do Kyler, but he was a closer during winning time from the moment he stepped on the field. You could see when they needed to turn him loose, he could shine. I've yet to see the same consistently from Kyler.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I guess I look at losing games to good coaches you should have won as a prerequisite to winning those games.

I understand that. I look at it as a scenario where (a) you should win as you have the superior talent; (b) you were up 10 and the opposition performed horribly; and (c) you lost due to the same coaching issues you’ve evidenced in the past (and recent past). I see no celebration there.