Its kind of ironic really

[Shane]

Back in April there was the vast majority on this boad who were extremely pissed with how the draft unfolded. I would say probably about 80% or more of the posters on this board were incensed with not only the trade down but even more incensed that we picked Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace with our two selections. Many of you claiming that they were extreme reaches and that they had "BUST" written all over them. Especially in the case of Calvin Pace.

Now three months later it sure is ironic how pretty near 100% of the board wants these guys in camp on time and would be very excited if signed by today. Like it is going to make a huge difference to the team and its ability to win games this year.

Its just funny sometimes how quickly things change from month to month and season to season.

With that being said I have a feeling that many of you will be eating your words when it comes to Pace. If he is signed in a timely manner I believe he may be one of our biggest surprises!

 

[cardzfan]

I was not on this board during the draft but I thought highly of the draft. Our first three picks will eventually be starters. I was never high on Suggs. His weight work at the combine was less imressive than players 50 pounds lighter than him. He showed no stamina. I wondered how he would hold up during an NFL game. Suggs would not be going up against the Little Sisters of the Poor. Even the worst NFL tackle is a monster compared to the average college tackle. Our draft could produce Bostons replacement and a solid #2 WR as well as a pass rushing end. If we can get Johnson and Pace in camp we might be hearing what a great draft we had by mid-season.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Mel Kiper Jr.

Yes, Guilty as charge. I was ready for the mutany call on draft day. I was foolish, I admit it. It was that damn Mel Kiper Jr. I NEVER watch college football ( I have my reasons, and they are good ones ) so I know nothing about guys out of college.

My only input was Mel Kiper Jr. In retrospect I should have asked about guys on this message board. I would have gotten better information. Anyway I blame Kiper. He hypnotyzed me with that damn haircut!

I was proven wrong. I did some studying on the guys we drafted and finally looked at it as quantity over quality. Then I saw the plan and liked the plan. And liked who we drafted.

Just trying to reinforce your point about going 180 degrees on something.

Peace

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Shane H
Back in April there was the vast majority on this boad who were extremely pissed with how the draft unfolded. I would say probably about 80% or more of the posters on this board were incensed with not only the trade down but even more incensed that we picked Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace with our two selections. Many of you claiming that they were extreme reaches and that they had "BUST" written all over them. Especially in the case of Calvin Pace.

Now three months later it sure is ironic how pretty near 100% of the board wants these guys in camp on time and would be very excited if signed by today. Like it is going to make a huge difference to the team and its ability to win games this year.

Its just funny sometimes how quickly things change from month to month and season to season.

With that being said I have a feeling that many of you will be eating your words when it comes to Pace. If he is signed in a timely manner I believe he may be one of our biggest surprises!

I don't think it is ironic at all. I initially didn't like the picks...more out of a lack of knowledge of the players picked than anything. There is no irony in wanting them signed on time. They should be signed on time IMO and the two are mutually exclusive.

I would also say just about everyone has already eaten their words regarding Pace and may have eaten them regarding Johnson too.

I know I have. But it still doesn;t mean I don't want them signed on time...just because I have eaten my words.

 

[Jttsaz]

I did not have sex with that woman...Miss Lewinski...oh...er...sorry wrong speech!

 

[Shane]

Re: Re: Its kind of ironic really

Originally posted by AZCB34
I don't think it is ironic at all. I initially didn't like the picks...more out of a lack of knowledge of the players picked than anything. There is no irony in wanting them signed on time. They should be signed on time IMO and the two are mutually exclusive.

I would also say just about everyone has already eaten their words regarding Pace and may have eaten them regarding Johnson too.

I know I have. But it still doesn;t mean I don't want them signed on time...just because I have eaten my words.

I know many have since eaten there words. Thats the irony in the whole thing. How quickly things can change!

You would think by how people were bad mouthing these picks post draft that they would be like who cares if these guys are in on time they are going to suck anyways.

But now everyone likes them and hopes they are here contributing at the earliest possible time!

 

[AZCB34]

Re: Re: Re: Its kind of ironic really

Originally posted by Shane H
I know many have since eaten there words. Thats the irony in the whole thing. How quickly things can change!

You would think by how people were bad mouthing these picks post draft that they would be like who cares if these guys are in on time they are going to suck anyways.

But now everyone likes them and hopes they are here contributing at the earliest possible time!

Gotcha

 

[JeffGollin]

I fail to see the logic in the opening statement of this thread.

Making the right decision on a player on draft day and getting your players signed on time are two completely different issues.

I felt at the time we should have drafted Suggs and not made the deal and still do.

But that doesn't mean I'm right. Nor does it mean that Pace won't turn out to be a good player or for that matter Johnson. And it doesn't necessarily mean that Suggs will make the Pro Bowl. THOSE issues (including how Suggs does) will be decided - one way or the other - during training camp and the seasons that follow.

I'm approaching Camp with the following mindset: Boldin could turn out to be better than Johnson. Dennis Johnson or Alton Moore could turn out to be better than Pace.

Or maybe not. That's why they have a preseason. Instead of speculating (and using that speculation to take a shot at folks you disagreed with 2 months ago) why not just let events come to you?

And getting our two number one picks signed on time has as much or more to do with straightening out the over all attitude and credibility of the Cardinal organization - from top to bottom - as it does putting two #1 picks on the practice field on time.

 

[El Coche]

I still think the 1st round was a debacle and the Cards completely mis-managed it. The Pace pick was a reach and I believe that if the Cards brass had though they could still get Boldin in the 2nd that they would have never used that 1st round pick on a receiver.

I think that allot of people still feel that way, but we're all fans and what's done is done. I don't think it's a matter of eating our words, it's just accepting and moving on. I do, however, think that the rest of the draft was pretty good and that helped most of us get over round one.

IMO the pick that they're really going to regret not making is Leftwich. I think the Cards may end up with some good journeymen players out of this draft but I think we missed out on the real studs again.

Only time will tell-

 

[SECTION 11]

I liked the draft. Except for giving up the fourth rounder.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
I fail to see the logic in the opening statement of this thread.

Making the right decision on a player on draft day and getting your players signed on time are two completely different issues.

I felt at the time we should have drafted Suggs and not made the deal and still do.

But that doesn't mean I'm right. Nor does it mean that Pace won't turn out to be a good player or for that matter Johnson. And it doesn't necessarily mean that Suggs will make the Pro Bowl. THOSE issues (including how Suggs does) will be decided - one way or the other - during training camp and the seasons that follow.

I'm approaching Camp with the following mindset: Boldin could turn out to be better than Johnson. Dennis Johnson or Alton Moore could turn out to be better than Pace.

Or maybe not. That's why they have a preseason. Instead of speculating (and using that speculation to take a shot at folks you disagreed with 2 months ago) why not just let events come to you?

And getting our two number one picks signed on time has as much or more to do with straightening out the over all attitude and credibility of the Cardinal organization - from top to bottom - as it does putting two #1 picks on the practice field on time.

Umm ok Jeff if you say so.

It is relevant because many of the people who were saying that they think Pace sucks are the same people who are now saying they are ok with the pick and hope hes signed on time.

All Im saying is how IRONIC it is that in such a short period of time people can change there minds and how they view the person and the draft as a whole.

Where in this entire post am I taking "a shot" at anyone????

 

[SECTION 11]

The only thing different I would have done is sign Marcus Robinson before the draft and pick up Jeff Faine instead of Johnson. Given the way everything went down, I'd say that is a realistic alternative to what we got.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
The only thing different I would have done is sign Marcus Robinson before the draft and pick up Jeff Faine instead of Johnson. Given the way everything went down, I'd say that is a realistic alternative to what we got.

Every time you post this, it makes my blood boil because it is such a solid plan to have used and it would have in the end filled 3 holes on the team...plus the Cards would have actually had a WR in camp with some actual NFL experience...not to mention a Pro Bowl on his resume.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Making the right decision on a player on draft day and getting your players signed on time are two completely different issues.

When I first read it, it didn't make sense to me either since I also thought the drafting and signing were 2 separate issues. I think I have a clearer understanding of what Shane was trying to say now but initially I didn't get it.

I have a migraine today so my thought process is slower than normal...which is quite scary.

 

[kerouac9]

Shane -

I think that a lot of people (myself included) just think that there's not a lot of profit in seething over the Pace pick, or the Johnson one, for that matter. It's become a fact. I'm sure that he'll probably be a solid player, but that doesn't change the fact that we need to get out first round picks into camp on time, regardless of who they are or where or when they were drafted. It's more about showing a committment to winning to the fans and players than showing committment to the picks made.

I fail to see how people not liking a pick at the time and then wanting that pick to get into camp on time fits the definition of "irony." I think that part of what Jeff's saying (and I'm probably wrong about this) is that it kind of sounds like you're substituting "irony" or "hypocricy."

Personally, I don't think the signing situation has gotten bad until Rugby posts that "These players haven't shown a thing in the NFL, they should just be happy to be on a team and a first round pick, and take what we're offering to them, already!"

 

[AndyO]

I also was not on these boards during the draft. While at the time, I have to say I was disappointed with the picks we made, that 's just in the past now. My biggest concern is whether these guys can help us or not. And I for one will be very happy to eat crow to see that RG was right and I was wrong about Johnson and Pace. The excitement to get them signed is just that we all want to see them do well and help the Cards the way the organization has projected they could. That may be ironic, but , what the heck, we're fans, we're allowed to change our minds every other day.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Shane -

I think that a lot of people (myself included) just think that there's not a lot of profit in seething over the Pace pick, or the Johnson one, for that matter. It's become a fact. I'm sure that he'll probably be a solid player, but that doesn't change the fact that we need to get out first round picks into camp on time, regardless of who they are or where or when they were drafted. It's more about showing a committment to winning to the fans and players than showing committment to the picks made.

I fail to see how people not liking a pick at the time and then wanting that pick to get into camp on time fits the definition of "irony." I think that part of what Jeff's saying (and I'm probably wrong about this) is that it kind of sounds like you're substituting "irony" or "hypocricy."

Personally, I don't think the signing situation has gotten bad until Rugby posts that "These players haven't shown a thing in the NFL, they should just be happy to be on a team and a first round pick, and take what we're offering to them, already!"

Actually if you guys read my post better(especially my first response to AZCB34) Im more commenting not so much on the fact that people want them signed on time but the fact that many now think that he and Johnson are keys to the season in general and quite possibly giving us an extra W in the win column! Thats what I find ironic that many people labeled him a bust right after the draft and now they not only want them signed on time but think that it is imperative for the team. Does that make sense?

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Shane H
Actually if you guys read my post better(especially my first response to AZCB34) Im more commenting not so much on the fact that people want them signed on time but the fact that many now think that he and Johnson are keys to the season in general and quite possibly giving us an extra W in the win column! Thats what I find ironic that many people labeled him a bust right after the draft and now they not only want them signed on time but think that it is imperative for the team. Does that make sense?

I, too, would've drafted Suggs. And, until it's proved on the field, I'll stick to my guns that that was what we should've done. But, that's all over now, and I want these guys to get every opportunity to succeed. Hell, I want them to be Pro Bowlers and HOF'ers. I think it'd take a pretty big sourpuss to be so mad about the draft that three months later you didn't care if they signed on time or not!

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
I think it'd take a pretty big sourpuss to be so mad about the draft that three months later you didn't care if they signed on time or not!

The more I think about it thats probably so true

 

[40yearfan]

I also was one of the people who felt we should have taken Suggs, but after seeing some of the problems he's having in Baltimore and learning more about our 2 picks, I have changed my mind.

The thing that sticks in my mind now is, if we are having problems getting the #17 and #18 first round picks into camp on time, what would it have been like with a #6 pick?

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by 40yearfan

The thing that sticks in my mind now is, if we are having problems getting the #17 and #18 first round picks into camp on time, what would it have been like with a #6 pick?

No BullCrap especially given that Jerry Jones just gave the #5 pick a 13 million dollar freaking signing bonus!

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Shane H
No BullCrap especially given that Jerry Jones just gave the #5 pick a 13 million dollar freaking signing bonus!

I am thinking it will end up being harder to sign 2 than one because all the effort would have been on signing one guy right now instead of having to divide attention on it. I say that using just the simple formula is it takes more ot sign two than one...and not giving any weight to where they were picked nor any slotting that has occurred.

Jones didn't use a 2 tier bonus though did he? So maybe that makes it "easier" to get it done? I don't know.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by AZCB34
I am thinking it will end up being harder to sign 2 than one because all the effort would have been on signing one guy right now instead of having to divide attention on it. I say that using just the simple formula is it takes more ot sign two than one...and not giving any weight to where they were picked nor any slotting that has occurred.

Jones didn't use a 2 tier bonus though did he? So maybe that makes it "easier" to get it done? I don't know.

You may be right I just know that I couldnt imagine Bidwill approving anything close to a 13 million dollar bonus for a #6 pick. You know thats what the player would be looking for too something close after the player right before him was paid that much guaranteed money.

 

[NFL_FAN]

Re: Re: Re: Its kind of ironic really

Originally posted by Shane H
I know many have since eaten there words. Thats the irony in the whole thing. How quickly things can change!

You would think by how people were bad mouthing these picks post draft that they would be like who cares if these guys are in on time they are going to suck anyways.

But now everyone likes them and hopes they are here contributing at the earliest possible time!

Of course we want our draft picks in on time, regardless of talent levels they need to be there so as not to be behind on the learning curve. As far as a draft bust, we have no idea yet. We will need to revisit in January. Until then, I am still dissapointed and confused about the Graves plan and don't see much better than 6-10, IMHO. Suddenly saying Pace and Johnson are football Gods without even a game under their belts is quite premature. Now Boldin, there's a player!!

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Shane H
You may be right I just know that I couldnt imagine Bidwill approving anything close to a 13 million dollar bonus for a #6 pick. You know thats what the player would be looking for too something close after the player right before him was paid that much guaranteed money.

Sorry Shane...Bidwill is with an I

Bidwill would probably have a blood vessel burst in his head over approving that bonus.

You know, I wonder if this is some sort of plan by Jones to actually force teams into nasty holdouts? Sorry conspiracy theory is in my migraine couded head