It's your team Mike Bidwill.

[kerouac9]

this is the saddest and most onpoint post of the weekend. Ouchie and I were talking about this exact thing yesterday at the game. Our offensive head coach, literally has almost ZERO clue what it takes to identify offensive talent.

I don't think that's fair, because it discounts productive time with Steve Breaston and Tim Hightower. Beanie Wells has been productive when he's healthy. LaRod Stephens-Howling has illustrated in the last three years that he can be an effective weapon.

I don't think we've seen the real potential that Andre Roberts and Rob Housler bring to the table. Because the quarterbacking situation has been so, so terrible for three seasons now.

I think that it's fair to say that our offensive head coach has almost ZERO clue what it takes to identify QUARTERBACK talent. Yes, he turned to the former two-time NFL MVP when Matt Leinart shirked his responsibilities to self, team, and career. That's not a huge endorsement.

A lesser argument can be made that this team doesn't know what it wants on the offensive line, either. I happen to believe that horrid QB play has made the offensive line look worse than it really is.

 

[Dayman]

I was going to post something very similar to this, and think it's a great post. For me, our offensive struggles aren't about coaching and game planning, per say. We currently have a guy drafted in the 5th round draft pick and rookie 6th round draft pick as options at QB, rookie 4th/7th round draft pick at tackles, and a guy drafted in the 6th round pick & UDFA at running back -- has any team ever been successful relying on those kinds of players at so many key positions? It's not that we're currently in the situation and struggling that has me so frustrated, it's that we shouldn't have ever gotten to this position in the first place. We've been horrible at brining in free agents on the offensive side of the ball since Whiz got here, and while we have had a few late-round draft pick home runs over the years (Breaston, Hightower, LSH), there's a lot of late offensive picks that didn't pan out that could have really provided us the depth we so desparately need at some of these positions.

Here is the list of the key offensive free agents that have been brought in from other teams since Whiz was hired:

2012:
Adam Snyder (G)
2011:
Kevin Kolb (QB) - Trade
Todd Heap (TE)
Daryn Colledge (G)
Jeff King (TE)
Chansi Stuckey (WR)
Chester Taylor (RB)
2010:
Anthony Becht (TE)
Derek Anderson (QB)
Alan Faneca (G)
2009:
Dan Kreider (FB)
Oliver Ross (OT)
2008:
Jerame Tuman (TE)
2007:
Al Johnson (C)
Sean Morey (WR)
Terrelle Smith (FB)
Mike Gandy (OT)

That's just an atrocious list. Mike Gandy probably had the best ROI out of the bunch, but was by no menas a great tackle. And you could argue that Sean Morey, Jeff King, and even Daryn Colledge have been decent signings that filled needs and given us decent production. Best the rest of the list is just rittled with poor decisions and investments that did not pan out or have not panned out to this point. If we would have made better investements in our free agents over the last 3 or so years, we might not find ourselves in the position that we are in at any of the above mentioned positions

Further, particularly on the O-line, we've invested in late round picks and UDFA that we haven't developed. Herman Johnson, Trevor Canfield, Brandon Keith, DJ Young, and D'Anthony Batiste are the guys we drafted or otherwise identified and attempted to develop as offensive line depth -- Batiste is the only one left on the team and likely not going to see the field as a Cardinal again barring further injuries. If any of those guys had panned out, we might not be in the same position on the offensive line that we are in right now. Several swings and misses at both WR and TE in terms of finding young talent to build depth on the back end of the roster.

All of this has left us with a team completely lacking depth on the offensive side of the ball. Other teams have injuries, maybe not as many as us at critical positions, and are able to overcome them because they are able to plug the wholes that they do have with free agents and have backups who are able to come in and not let the level of play fall off a cliff. Particularly with our defense, I think our core of offensive players (Kolb, Beanie, R-Will, Fitz & the WRs, King/Housler) are good enough for us to be a good football team when healthy (hence the 4-0 record). The when healthy part has been the biggest factor this year, and we just don't have the depth to withstand those injuries.

We need to completely change the way we evaluate offensive talent and develop that offensive talent in order to compete over the long haul. If part of the overhaul that is necessary involves any member of the front office or removing offensive coaches and the head coach, I wouldn't be against that at this point. But, we aren't in the situation that we are in because of bad luck with injuries or coaches not being able to come up with game plans or adjustments that will make inferior talent successful, we are in it because of bad investments in talent that we have made.

GREAT post.

This doesn't just apply to FA, either. Andre Roberts might be the best offensive player Whis has brought to this team, and Roberts is simply a solid slot receiver. There's very little hope on the O-line. The QB position is obviously a disaster. Counting on either of these RBs to produce for a full year would be foolish. Floyd looks pretty mediocre so far. In the six drafts Whis has presided over, the FO really hasn't secured an offensive building block. That's pretty sad. After factoring in the barrage of FA busts outlined in your post, this year's free fall shouldn't be very surprising.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't think that's fair, because it discounts productive time with Steve Breaston and Tim Hightower. Beanie Wells has been productive when he's healthy. LaRod Stephens-Howling has illustrated in the last three years that he can be an effective weapon.

I don't think we've seen the real potential that Andre Roberts and Rob Housler bring to the table. Because the quarterbacking situation has been so, so terrible for three seasons now.

I think that it's fair to say that our offensive head coach has almost ZERO clue what it takes to identify QUARTERBACK talent. Yes, he turned to the former two-time NFL MVP when Matt Leinart shirked his responsibilities to self, team, and career. That's not a huge endorsement.

A lesser argument can be made that this team doesn't know what it wants on the offensive line, either. I happen to believe that horrid QB play has made the offensive line look worse than it really is.

I think that either Whis has failed to create an offensive identity and scheme which is why we struggle to bring players who seem to fit OR Whis comprimises too much on the players the front office is willing to bring in or how much they are willing to spend on them.

 

[kerouac9]

I think that either Whis has failed to create an offensive identity and scheme which is why we struggle to bring players who seem to fit OR Whis comprimises too much on the players the front office is willing to bring in or how much they are willing to spend on them.

I don't think that's the case at all. I think that Whis knows what he wants to do in the passing game, having learned it from his closest mentor, Dan Henning. I think he knows what he wants from his running game through the guy who still has authority over the structure of the run game--Russ Grimm.

I think that Whis believes in his system to the point where he thinks any wide receiver can succeed. That's why he has rookies learn every position before they take the field. A route run by a 5'11", 4.3 40 guy is going to be just as successful if Larry Fitzgerald does it. And he might be right.

This is not a timing offense. It's a read offense. That's why you can sub WRs in and out.

Personally, I don't think that the pass philosophy works well with the run philosophy, and that might be the problem.

I think the personnel problem on the OL is that these guys ARE good run blockers for our run system. They're just awful pass blockers. If we run more, the offensive line will look better. But when we pass all the time, they look terrible.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't think that's the case at all. I think that Whis knows what he wants to do in the passing game, having learned it from his closest mentor, Dan Henning. I think he knows what he wants from his running game through the guy who still has authority over the structure of the run game--Russ Grimm.

I think that Whis believes in his system to the point where he thinks any wide receiver can succeed. That's why he has rookies learn every position before they take the field. A route run by a 5'11", 4.3 40 guy is going to be just as successful if Larry Fitzgerald does it. And he might be right.

This is not a timing offense. It's a read offense. That's why you can sub WRs in and out.

Personally, I don't think that the pass philosophy works well with the run philosophy, and that might be the problem.

I think the personnel problem on the OL is that these guys ARE good run blockers for our run system. They're just awful pass blockers. If we run more, the offensive line will look better. But when we pass all the time, they look terrible.

You may very well be right on with this as the running game and passing game never seem to be in conjunction. It's almost like two totally different offenses depending if we are in a spread formation vs. a traditional formation.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

OR Whis comprimises too much on the players the front office is willing to bring in or how much they are willing to spend on them.

That's what I think. There's no nice way to say this but.... When Michael is fully in charge I think we'll see a noticeable difference in the way the team is run.

 

[Mulli]

Why do people think Mike Bidwill is going to be significantly different than Bill Bidwill?

Personality perhaps. Not charging for towels, socks, or Gatorade perhaps.

Going all out as an organization vs. lining pockets instead of going all out.

Same Bidwills.

 

[football karma]

Why do people think Mike Bidwill is going to be significantly different than Bill Bidwill?

Personality perhaps. Not charging for towels, socks, or Gatorade perhaps.

Going all out as an organization vs. lining pockets instead of going all out.

Same Bidwills.

Yes and no

Mike is fully in charge. He is far more passionate about winning and wants to build a really strong franchise like a Pittsburgh or a Denver.

That being said, even with U of P stadium, the Cards are a middle market franchise in terms of revenue. Better than some (Minny, Jax, TB, SD, etc) but not in the same realm as the NFC /Afc east teams.

What that means is that they have to get a good return on the money they spend. Dead money on their cap is truly dead. It's why Graves has to go -- teams like the Giants can sign a Stewart Bradley, miss and move on as if nothing happened. For the Cards, misses like that truly cost them the next season.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Why do people think Mike Bidwill is going to be significantly different than Bill Bidwill?


Same Bidwills.

I've posted this previously. Mr B. grew up during the Great Depression. You don't spend a dime unless you absolutely have to. It's a mind set of his generation Save your pennies and stick them in a jar under the sink in case the banks fail again. Don't spend money on a new quarterback when you have a perfectly good quarterback under contract. And if you pay money for a QB you're going to squeeze every last dime out of him performance wise. (It's not a knock on him or that generation. But it's how they had to grow up and most never lost the fear of being broke.)

Michael didn't grow up that way.

 

[Mulli]

I've posted this previously. Mr B. grew up during the Great Depression. You don't spend a dime unless you absolutely have to. It's a mind set of his generation Save your pennies and stick them in a jar under the sink in case the banks fail again. Don't spend money on a new quarterback when you have a perfectly good quarterback under contract. (It's not a knock on him or that generation. But it's how they had to grow up and most never lost the fear of being broke.)

Phooey. It is a knock on him.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You don't spend a dime unless you absolutely have to.

Well if he was still sane from 1999-2007..... he absolutely had to, and he absolutely didn't.

And to be fair, the Cardinals are spending money.................just it is on magic beans, and mood rings

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Phooey. It is a knock on him.

Hey! I happen to have a jar of pennies under my sink.

 

[DoTheDew]

Joe's mentioned that we turned over the Pro Personnel side of the front office this offseason. Hopefully that redounds to our benefit.

The answers aren't out there in free agency. They rarely are.

This. Good teams build through the draft and keep their talent. Bad teams try to build through other teams overpriced FAs. Rarely you benefit from circumstances (Denver with Peyton or us with Warner for example), but the majority of the time, you're overpaying for a guy that the team was happy to get rid of.

 

[The Commish]

NFL free agents are the equivalent of JUCO recruits at the college level. You can't build a program around them but they can be effective in plugging holes in areas of need. The front office has clearly whiffed on opportunities to shore up the porous o-line.

 

[john h]

We're going to find out how serious he is about winning this off season. If he doesn't change the process the FO uses to evaluate talent then he doesn't care about winning no matter what he spews.

You can't continually miss out on the entire free agency process year after year and build a good team. It's all good to build the team through the draft as your main model but you need to supplement your roster at some point with veteran NFL players that can help the team. And the worse part is that the Cards give these guys good money so they don't only hurt the team on the field but also hurt them salary cap-wise. Brining in guys like Bradley, Heap and Adam Snyder shows that the talent evaluation process needs overhauled.

Bradley was an injured, mediocre at best, 4-3 MLB and they give him 30 mill. Snyder was the bottom of the barrel in a strong OG free agency class and he received, I think, 16 mill. Todd Heap.....well I don't even know why he was signed.

When your best free agent signing over the past few years is Jeff King, that should tell you something is very wrong. Actually I wouldn't even mind a handful of Jeff King type signings. At least you are bringing in a solid player that contributes to the team.

It almost seems like most of the time the Cards don't even have an idea of if a guy can play or fit their scheme. I remember a couple years ago begging for the Cards to bring in James Jones when he was FA. That wouldn't have been a big time signing but he would have been a perfect compliment, and deep threat the Cards were missing. Instead they were rumored to in on the heacase, clown Braylon Edwards.

This past year they didn't even look at guys like Davin Joseph, Ben Grubbs, or Carl Nicks and targeted Snyder. What kind of personell departement does that?

If Mike Bidwill goes with status quo, we know we have another run of a Bill Bidwill-type franchise to look forward to.

I am no big fan of Whiz but he can only play what the GM gives him. He may have zero input into who we draft as we really do not know who is the final say in the draft. It is hard to imagine an NFL team where the fans do not know who is responsible for player personnel. Is it Graves? Bidwill? A combination of various coaches, scouts, etc. Why they keep this a big mystery is beyond me. Jerry Jones will tell you real quick who is the GM with his team and who selects the players. If I were going to guess I would say Graves and about the Coordinators and Scouts, and Bidwill hold a meeting and more or less vote when they line up the guys they will draft. Each guy gets a chance to give his input I would think. When we cut a guy who makes that decision? When we trade a guy who makes that decision. In any successful organization you need a chain of command with assigned authority and ultimately someone who is RESPONSIBLE.

We are like flying an aircraft with 400 passengers and no one knows for sure who the pilot is. Not even the pilot or co-pilot knows. Only the airline owner knows and he is subject to change that at any time by radio.