James Jones hired as Suns General Manager

[slinslin]

Which side of this transaction would you prefer?

In: Rubio, Saric, Baynes, Kaminski, Carter #11, #24.

Out: Warren, Jackson, Melton, Bender, Holmes, Daniels, #6, #32, Bucks 2020 1st, 2020 2nd, 2021 Protected 2nd.

this comparison totally leaves out that the outside had about 10-12 million open capspace instead of Bender and Daniels.

 

[Chaplin]

I am looking at 2 second rounders we are out potentially? Plus we used the Bucks 2020 1st we tried a whole season to give away for a decent PG and had no takers? Plus we moved BACK into the #24 to grab a PG.

Maybe some overspend, but not like we gave away the whole franchise like some fans are acting like. It's like the Suns bought a car and didn't get a good trade in value. It happens. Hopefully the next cars we buy, negotiations get better. Worry if the car is a good car. That's what's more important!

You’re wrong on at least one aspect of your first paragraph. We did not move back to get the #24. We actually moved UP and got Aron Baynes as well. That Bucks pick is possibly going to be #30 or around there. How is that moving back? And you can’t say from the #6, because in that trade we DID move back, from #6 to #11. Had nothing to do with 24.

And really, outside of a dozen people on this board, nobody felt that those 2nd rounders have much value.

 

[Yuma]

You’re wrong on at least one aspect of your first paragraph. We did not move back to get the #24. We actually moved UP and got Aron Baynes as well. That Bucks pick is possibly going to be #30 or around there. How is that moving back? And you can’t say from the #6, because in that trade we DID move back, from #6 to #11. Had nothing to do with 24.

And really, outside of a dozen people on this board, nobody felt that those 2nd rounders have much value.

Always happy to be corrected.

 

[devilalum]

You’re wrong on at least one aspect of your first paragraph. We did not move back to get the #24. We actually moved UP and got Aron Baynes as well. That Bucks pick is possibly going to be #30 or around there. How is that moving back? And you can’t say from the #6, because in that trade we DID move back, from #6 to #11. Had nothing to do with 24.

And really, outside of a dozen people on this board, nobody felt that those 2nd rounders have much value.

Regardless of whether Jerome works out or not this trade was an example of a win win.

The Suns got the player they wanted now and filled a need for a backup center.
Boston got rid of a pick they didn't need this year and cut salary.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I consider Rubio and Warren a wash, Jackson considerably better than Saric, Holmes slightly better than Haynes, Carter slightly better than Melton, and Kaminsky moderately better than Bender. That plus Daniels gives a slight advantage to the Out, though the team is now more balanced.

Then there's the draft capital, which isn't even close.

James Jones got worked...repeatedly...

Rubio and Warren equal? That's ridiculous. Warren made no one better. I have never seen a more empty 18 ppg. Rubio is a better defender and better creator. He is a worse scorer. Rubio is a much better player.

Jackson better than Saric? Really? By almost any analytic, Josh Jackson was one of the five WORST players in the NBA. Dude you arent even being objective. Saric is a competent NBA player by most indicators. Objective fact proves you wrong.

Holmes better than Baynes? Baynes is a better defender. He can hit the three so he adds some floor stretching. I call this move a wash, with the slightest of edge to Holmes....maybe.

Carter is better than Melton, but 98% of the NBA is.

Kaminsky is a lot better than Bender. It's not even close.

Are you capable of being objective at all?

 

[Krangodnzr]

You’re wrong on at least one aspect of your first paragraph. We did not move back to get the #24. We actually moved UP and got Aron Baynes as well. That Bucks pick is possibly going to be #30 or around there. How is that moving back? And you can’t say from the #6, because in that trade we DID move back, from #6 to #11. Had nothing to do with 24.

And really, outside of a dozen people on this board, nobody felt that those 2nd rounders have much value.

Someone said this recently, and I really agree...2nd rounders should not be valuable to teams trying to build a team because it's just another player to develop.

 

[devilalum]

Holmes better than Baynes? Baynes is a better defender. He can hit the three so he adds some floor stretching. I call this move a wash, with the slightest of edge to Holmes....maybe.

And there's this.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...ed-suspicion-marijuana-possession/1204702001/

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Rubio and Warren equal? That's ridiculous. Warren made no one better. I have never seen a more empty 18 ppg. Rubio is a better defender and better creator. He is a worse scorer. Rubio is a much better player.

Jackson better than Saric? Really? By almost any analytic, Josh Jackson was one of the five WORST players in the NBA. Dude you arent even being objective. Saric is a competent NBA player by most indicators. Objective fact proves you wrong.

Holmes better than Baynes? Baynes is a better defender. He can hit the three so he adds some floor stretching. I call this move a wash, with the slightest of edge to Holmes....maybe.

Carter is better than Melton, but 98% of the NBA is.

Kaminsky is a lot better than Bender. It's not even close.

Are you capable of being objective at all?

Agree with pretty much everything you said with the exception of Baynes' three point shooting. Baynes has shown no higher ability to hit the 3 than Holmes has in his career (both of their best years from 3 are almost identical). Holmes was simply asked to not shoot threes in the Suns offense last year and that was yet another issue with the Igor offense as anyone on the floor that can hit threes should be shooting them.

 

[1Sun]

this comparison totally leaves out that the outside had about 10-12 million open capspace instead of Bender and Daniels.

Cap space that was used to acquire the "In" players.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I like that analogy but I'd say that the car we traded had some problem but we weren't sure how bad it was. When the dealership gave it a look over, it turned to have a busted head gasket. We're lucky they agreed to take it still because if we brought it home then we would have had to pay someone to tow it away later.

We did have to pay the dealership to take our trade-in. In fact we had to pay them twice.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Someone said this recently, and I really agree...2nd rounders should not be valuable to teams trying to build a team because it's just another player to develop.

I think that’s a little silly. Can’t buikd a team with an arenas? With a boozer? They’re not likely but throwing away opportunity, no matter how remote, is throwing away opportunity.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So here is what we know about James Jones so far.

1. He is about building a balanced cohesive roster, not collecting assets.
2. He is focused on building a team around Booker and Ayton. Every move so far seems to be about developing these two players. He must believe that those players are the real deal. He is not hedging his bets with them. He is all in on those two.
3. He does not value second round picks much.
4. He has no problem losing a trade if it accomplishes what he wants with the roster. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt here in assuming he understands how the trade looks to outsiders.
5. He values shooting, basketball skills, maturity, and intelligence over youth, athleticism, and potential.

I guess that makes him nearly the opposite of McDonough. We will see how it works.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think that’s a little silly. Can’t buikd a team with an arenas? With a boozer? They’re not likely but throwing away opportunity, no matter how remote, is throwing away opportunity.

Agree with this. Of course teams can benefit from a scouting department that has been on the job for awhile.

 

[1Sun]

So here is what we know about James Jones so far.

1. He is about building a balanced cohesive roster, not collecting assets.
2. He is focused on building a team around Booker and Ayton. Every move so far seems to be about developing these two players. He must believe that those players are the real deal. He is not hedging his bets with them. He is all in on those two.
3. He does not value second round picks much.
4. He has no problem losing a trade if it accomplishes what he wants with the roster. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt here in assuming he understands how the trade looks to outsiders.
5. He values shooting, basketball skills, maturity, and intelligence over youth, athleticism, and potential.

I guess that makes him nearly the opposite of McDonough. We will see how it works.

From one extreme to the other. Just like we need a balanced roster, we need a balanced approach to assembling it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

From one extreme to the other. Just like we need a balanced roster, we need a balanced approach to assembling it.

The only way to be balanced is to constantly correct for imbalance. The more frequently you do it, the less extreme the correction has to be. McD did not correct himself much. We will see if Jones does. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I am assuming that the thought these big corrections were necessary because of how dysfunctional the previous roster was. If Jones ends up being a repeat of McD--committed to only one way of doing things--we are in for years of the same, because he is going to be around for a while.

Even the San Antonio Spurs were willing to take a risk and draft Kawhi.

 

[BC867]

I consider Rubio and Warren a wash...

Getting a Point Guard (our highest priority) and giving up a one-dimensional Small Forward no longer needed to play Power Forward is a wash?

I agree with Chap's comment. I am trying to understand your logic, but can't. It seemed you and I thought alike about the urgency for a veteran Point Guard.

Please explain why you think that Rubio facilitating Booker (no longer required to play out of position) and the developing Ayton is equal to having Warren.

Why do you search for the dark side of everything, even when they achieve priorities that you've expressed numerously? We're going to have to call you Darth 1Sun.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[JCSunsfan]

Getting a Point Guard (our highest priority) and giving up a one-dimensional Small Forward no longer needed to play Power Forward is a wash?

I agree with Chap's comment. I am trying to understand your logic, but can't. It seemed you and I thought alike about the urgency for a veteran Point Guard.

Please explain why you think that Rubio facilitating Booker (no longer required to play out of position) and the developing Ayton is equal to having Warren.

Why do you search for the dark side of everything, even when they achieve priorities that you've expressed numerously? We're going to have to call you Darth 1Sun.

This is funny. I thought the same thing about you, BC. Welcome to the Bright Side.

 

[1Sun]

Getting a Point Guard (our highest priority) and giving up a one-dimensional Small Forward no longer needed to play Power Forward is a wash?

I agree with Chap's comment. I am trying to understand your logic, but can't. It seemed you and I thought alike about the urgency for a veteran Point Guard.

Please explain why you think that Rubio facilitating Booker (no longer required to play out of position) and the developing Ayton is equal to having Warren.

Why do you search for the dark side of everything, even when they achieve priorities that you've expressed numerously? We're going to have to call you Darth 1Sun.

I meant a wash in terms of overall talent and contribution. As I said at the end of that paragraph, I believe this team is better balanced, which could give the "In" an advantage, just not enough of an advantage to warrant the draft capital Jones squandered to get it.

In terms of Rubio, he is certainly an improvement over the dreck we had at the point, but he still can't shoot, which means that opposing defenses are going to continue to double and swarm Booker, making his life miserable on offense.

Meanwhile, this reconstructed roster is badly lacking in athleticism, rebounding and rim protection.

As I said before, I now understand Jones' plan, but I do not agree with the sloppy execution, the squandering of assets and the players he chose to implement his plan.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I meant a wash in terms of overall talent and contribution. As I said at the end of that paragraph, I believe this team is better balanced, which could give the "In" an advantage, just not enough of an advantage to warrant the draft capital Jones squandered to get it.

This is where you lose me. Warren brings scoring on decent efficiency and virtually nothing else. Rubio bring much needed facilitating and defense from the PG position. That seems to far out weight the contribution we would get from Warren IMO.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This is where you lose me. Warren brings scoring on decent efficiency and virtually nothing else. Rubio bring much needed facilitating and defense from the PG position. That seems to far out weight the contribution we would get from Warren IMO.

Warren had great value and contribution. But we had too many wings and needed a pg. There was absolutely no point in having Warren, Oubre, Bridges and Jackson on the same team.

At least we will not have to go through a year without a pg.

 

[1Sun]

This is where you lose me. Warren brings scoring on decent efficiency and virtually nothing else. Rubio bring much needed facilitating and defense from the PG position. That seems to far out weight the contribution we would get from Warren IMO.

Warren is all shooting and scoring, and no passing. Rubio is all passing and no shooting or scoring. Rubio is a better defender, but he isn't the supreme defender people think he is, and Warren gave us some rebounding, which we now sorely lack. Rubio gives us more of what we need, as we had other small forwards and no point guards, which is why I made the balanced roster point. But in a vacuum, both are pretty similar in that they contribute in one or two key areas, but not other areas of need.

 

[BC867]

This is funny. I thought the same thing about you, BC. Welcome to the Bright Side.

JC, are you not considering the decade of embarrassment and failure that Sarver and
his constant turnover of General Managers and Head Coaches brought to the Suns?

There was nothing to cheer about. Welcome to the Bright Side should be directed
to Suns management. It took them long enough!

With your JC ID, if Jerry were still running the show, it would explain blind loyalty.

Now that the Suns are finally turning the corner, I would love to hear you explain
why you've been condoning Sarver's pathetic leadership and meddling. Seriously!

 

[JCSunsfan]

JC, are you not considering the decade of embarrassment and failure that Sarver and
his constant turnover of General Managers and Head Coaches brought to the Suns?

There was nothing to cheer about. Welcome to the Bright Side should be directed
to Suns management. It took them long enough!

With your JC ID, if Jerry were still running the show, it would explain blind loyalty.

Now that the Suns are finally turning the corner, I would love to hear you explain
why you've been condoning Sarver's pathetic leadership and meddling. Seriously!

I have longed for the JC days over Sarver many, many times. I am on record as saying the worst thing JC did was sell to Sarver. I just try not to judge motives. I am sorry you took such a light-hearted comment as offensive. I did not mean it that way.

 

[Yuma]

Like I said earlier, last year Warren would score big in games we were losing. Nights when we were in games and needed a third scorer he seemed to disapper. If I had to criticize his offense at all is that it wasn't consistent.

 

[iVAN]

Warren is all shooting and scoring, and no passing. Rubio is all passing and no shooting or scoring. Rubio is a better defender, but he isn't the supreme defender people think he is, and Warren gave us some rebounding, which we now sorely lack. Rubio gives us more of what we need, as we had other small forwards and no point guards, which is why I made the balanced roster point. But in a vacuum, both are pretty similar in that they contribute in one or two key areas, but not other areas of need.

Rubio had been posting positive RPM for Utah for the past 2 seasons for Utah, before that for Minny. Warren has always been in the negative even despite some improvement last season.

Rubio is a better player. The guy plays for his team, not for his personal numbers.