Jazz @ Suns Game Thread 1-4-13

[Mainstreet]

Then you might want to get some extra beauty sleep over the next 8 weeks. Our schedule goes like this: Memphis, @Mil, @Bos, @Brooklyn, @Chicago, OKC, Milwaukee, @Sac, Clips, @SA, @Dallas, Lakers, Dallas, @GS, @Memphis, @NO, @OKC, OKC, @Lakers, @Portland, @GS, Bos, SA, Minnesota, @SA. Not a lot of pretty nights between now and the end of February.

Steve

I've already come to expect the worst of the Suns, sort of like the Cardinals heading down the stretch in the NFL. If I'm a Cardinals fan I can take anything... almost.

I understand the Mercury have the first pick in their draft so there is that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Great pass by Duds.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Eddie is trying to convince somebody (the audience?) that the Suns will come back in this one. We're only down by 9 points but I don't think we win this one. Fortunately for the Suns, I'm rarely right when I predict.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Bad pass by Duds although that might be a bit on Gortat for not coming to it.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Then you might want to get some extra beauty sleep over the next 8 weeks. Our schedule goes like this: Memphis, @Mil, @Bos, @Brooklyn, @Chicago, OKC, Milwaukee, @Sac, Clips, @SA, @Dallas, Lakers, Dallas, @GS, @Memphis, @NO, @OKC, OKC, @Lakers, @Portland, @GS, Bos, SA, Minnesota, @SA. Not a lot of pretty nights between now and the end of February.

Steve

Between now and the Toronto game in March that home date vs Milwaukee is the only one the Suns will be favored to win. Its a brutal schedule.

 

[Phrazbit]

Eddie is trying to convince somebody (the audience?) that the Suns will come back in this one. We're only down by 9 points but I don't think we win this one. Fortunately for the Suns, I'm rarely right when I predict.

Steve

9 points over the remaining 8 minutes is a tall order.

Uhh oh, now its 13 points.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm only watching to see Marshall come in the game. I'm learning to like the pain.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Between now and the Toronto game in March that home date vs Milwaukee is the only one the Suns will be favored to win. Its a brutal schedule.

And I don't know if we have the leadership to stay energized or focused after we go something like 3 - 26 during this stretch. That's why I think people that are convinced we'll pick in the teens might be wrong. We had an incredibly easy schedule to start the season and we did poorly against that schedule, now it's just that much tougher.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Albert saying "I just didn't see this coming after the great start" but this is exactly what happens when you play Beasley. You give up momentum and the other team starts "knowing" they're going to win. It's hard to bounce back from that especially with Brown in a prolonged funk.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns seem to hide Marshall like they did with Alando Tucker. I want to see the dark side.

If the Suns did not have Scola they would not have a power forward.

 

[Phrazbit]

And I don't know if we have the leadership to stay energized or focused after we go something like 3 - 26 during this stretch. That's why I think people that are convinced we'll pick in the teens might be wrong. We had an incredibly easy schedule to start the season and we did poorly against that schedule, now it's just that much tougher.

Steve

Yeah, I think we're looking at a lotto slot between 4th and 7th. Possibly worse if the team does what they should and becomes sellers at the deadline.

 

[Mainstreet]

And I don't know if we have the leadership to stay energized or focused after we go something like 3 - 26 during this stretch. That's why I think people that are convinced we'll pick in the teens might be wrong. We had an incredibly easy schedule to start the season and we did poorly against that schedule, now it's just that much tougher.

Steve

I do not doubt your thinking one bit. Talk about ugly times ahead.

 

[Phrazbit]

The Amare "no one taught me defense" story slays me. Amare has used the EXACT line before, back in November of 2010.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... m-defense/

It was fair,” he said. “I was never taught defense. I just never was taught it in high school and also in the NBA…”

“I’ve got to give it to Alvin Gentry,” Stoudemire added. “He really implemented some strategies that were helpful to me. I took what I learned last year and carried it over to this year.”
​

Or this doozy from 2008

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/ar ... e0910.html

"I want to be Ron Artest," Stoudemire said, explaining the focus of his recent work on defense, along with efficiency in his offensive moves. "I want to be that guy you fear when you see him guarding you."
​

Maybe his real problem is he needs his memory checked. He supposedly learned it... forgot, was going to be the best at it... but wasnt.

But hey, its not his fault, he is 30 and no one ever showed him how to do one of his basic trade skills. And I really doubt there was ever any coaches, assistant coaches or players on any of his previous teams who could have thrown him a pointer. Poor guy.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is boring, if I had any sense I'd listen to some Lana Del Rey or maybe go to YouTube and watch Heart perform Stairway to Heaven again. Man, is that a great version or what? If you're of an age to appreciate Stairway to Heaven and you haven't watched this video, I highly recommend it.

Down 13 but there's still almost a minute left.

Steve

 

[BC867]

This is boring, if I had any sense I'd listen to some Lana Del Rey or maybe go to YouTube and watch Heart perform Stairway to Heaven again. Man, is that a great version or what? If you're of an age to appreciate Stairway to Heaven and you haven't watched this video, I highly recommend it.

I switched from the game at halftime to watch the 25th anniversary of Paul Simon's Graceland tribute on PBS. In addition to flashbacks of Ladysmith Black Mambazo, Hugh Masakela, Miriam Makeba and all the great South African artists who were part of it, it recapped insight into the politics that tried to derail it.

 

[BC867]

And remember how great the bench looked for the first month and a half, then the last few weeks its been really really bad?

This is a different bench than we've seen. Is Brown starter or bench? Or Dudley? Or Scola? Or Tucker? The front office has stocked such an unbalanced team, if Gentry finds a good starting combo, it means the bench will be the ones who were demoted.

The same reason the D'backs didn't reach expectations last season. Most of the position players came to the park each day not knowing what their role would be. That is not how to bring success to a team sport.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is a different bench than we've seen. Is Brown starter or bench? Or Dudley? Or Scola? Or Tucker? The front office has stocked such an unbalanced team, if Gentry finds a good starting combo, it means the bench will be the ones who were demoted.

The same reason the D'backs didn't reach expectations last season. Most of the position players came to the park each day not knowing what their role would be. That is not how to bring success to a team sport.

It's simple, really. I mean it, it's very simple. If you want to improve the starting lineup, don't start Beasley. If you want to improve the bench, don't use Beasley off the bench. As I said, it's simple. Unless of course you're required to give Beasley some minutes in which case you're simply screwed.

This team is mediocre without Beasley. But this team is horrible with Beasley. Every team has runs, every team has momentum shifts but playing Beasley almost guarantees that the opposing team gets one extra momentum shift, one extra run and our team is just not good enough to spot the opponents that unnecessary advantage.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

It's simple, really. I mean it, it's very simple. If you want to improve the starting lineup, don't start Beasley. If you want to improve the bench, don't use Beasley off the bench. As I said, it's simple. Unless of course you're required to give Beasley some minutes in which case you're simply screwed.

This team is mediocre without Beasley. But this team is horrible with Beasley. Every team has runs, every team has momentum shifts but playing Beasley almost guarantees that the opposing team gets one extra momentum shift, one extra run and our team is just not good enough to spot the opponents that unnecessary advantage.

Steve

Well stated.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

I guess there is really no point to this forum any more. It is a constant Phrazbit/AzStevenCal dialog about a single bad player on a bad team. Really getting old...

 

[Phrazbit]

I guess there is really no point to this forum any more. It is a constant Phrazbit/AzStevenCal dialog about a single bad player on a bad team. Really getting old...

Way to add to that conversation. Now Steve and I can follow this up with a dialog about ourselves talking about bad players.

Its a bad team, who's marquee free agent signing was spectacularly awful. When people make interesting topics I'm glad to join in, but during game threads, especially games as bad as this one was, the conversation will be less than rosie.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I guess there is really no point to this forum any more. It is a constant Phrazbit/AzStevenCal dialog about a single bad player on a bad team. Really getting old...

Well, I'm certainly not trying to drive anyone away from the board. In fact, it's been pretty lonely in the game threads. But, what exactly are we to talk about then if we're not supposed to discuss what some of us believe is the overriding reason we are a bad team. I've said positive things about Beasley when they were justified but there isn't a lot to work with. Even if you ignore the things he does and just look at what happens to the team in general when he is on the court, it becomes clear that he is an anchor weighing this team down.

Perhaps instead of blaming us for turning this into a Beasley bash fest you could put the blame where it belongs - on the organization for bringing him in, on the coach for playing him or on the SuperCoolBeas for playing so poorly. If there were positive things to talk about with the Suns, I'd be leading the charge.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I guess there is really no point to this forum any more. It is a constant Phrazbit/AzStevenCal dialog about a single bad player on a bad team. Really getting old...

The Suns forum would be much better, if posters such as yourself, brought something new to the forum.

It gets lonely on these threads.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I guess there is really no point to this forum any more. It is a constant Phrazbit/AzStevenCal dialog about a single bad player on a bad team. Really getting old...

I was curious so I went back through this thread. Prior to your comment, I had posted 13 times and in only 3 of those posts did I mention or refer to Beasley. Perhaps you're invested in some way to Michael Beasley and you're seeing something that isn't there (on the court or on this forum)?

Also, I would point out that I don't agree with you that we're constantly talking about "a single bad player on a bad team". First off, I've posted far more negative comments about Scola than I have on Beasley and IMO Beasley is not a bad player on a bad team. He is a uniquely horrible player on a very mediocre team. We don't become a bad team until we include Beasley.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I was curious so I went back through this thread. Prior to your comment, I had posted 13 times and in only 3 of those posts did I mention or refer to Beasley. Perhaps you're invested in some way to Michael Beasley and you're seeing something that isn't there (on the court or on this forum)?

Also, I would point out that I don't agree with you that we're constantly talking about "a single bad player on a bad team". First off, I've posted far more negative comments about Scola than I have on Beasley and IMO Beasley is not a bad player on a bad team. He is a uniquely horrible player on a very mediocre team. We don't become a bad team until we include Beasley.

Steve

But you are coming around about Scola...hope, hope.

I agree about Beasley being a big mistake. Almost everyone has come around to this position.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But you are coming around about Scola...hope, hope.

I agree about Beasley being a big mistake. Almost everyone has come around to this position.

And keep in mind, I'm one of those that had to "come around". I didn't start off hating the guy. My only real concern about him was the marijuana issue but I really had no impressions about him as an NBA player. I remembered him as a good college player and thought that it was a gamble worth taking because we were going nowhere unless we got lucky with a signing such as him.

However, watching him play, it's obvious to me that whoever decided to go after him had the same level of ignorance about Beasley as I did because the NBA Beasley is so clearly a team killer. Even if he never plays another minute this season, our 2013 non-playoffs finish has been carved in stone because of his presence early in the season.

I've been following the Suns since the day they were announced and Beasley ranks right up there with Luc Longley which is saying something for those that remember me during Luc's run. I use to track and post a nightly +/- on the guy well before those stats were made available for the NBA because I was convinced (and the numbers showed it) that Longley was destroying us. Beasley is almost as bad on defense as Hakim Warrick was and unlike Hakim, Michael has been consistently horrendous on offense.

As for Scola, I'm hoping the Luis we've seen the past 4 games is the player we'll have for the rest of the season. Besides being more responsible on defense, I like the fact he has stopped settling for those jumpers that are a little out of his range. When teams have pushed him past his comfort spot, he's worked to get a better shot or made a nice pass to a teammate. He's our best passer and our best shooter right now. I like what I'm seeing but I reserve the right to jump ship if he reverts to previous form.

Steve