JJ Arrington

joeshmo

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Russ Smith said:
And in case you didn't notice, Arrington had a HIGHER YPC than any of those guys despite carrying the ball more.

Did you not read what I posted, becuase if you did you would know I did notice and even said Arrington would have still been on top if all things(amount of carries) were equal.

Just pointing out your arguement was way over dramatic and very misleading.
 

joeshmo

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Russ Smith said:
Seriously Tedford should be in the HOF today if he can keep putting out these juggernaut offensive teams without ANY talented players?

More of the dramatics. No one said they didnt have talent, people arent questioning that, they are questioning how much talent, which was the original question of the thread.
 

Cheesebeef

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I'll also go on record as saying that if we DO wait until the second round to take a running back(and I hope we don't or I hope we already have a proven guy there by that point) - I DO like Arrington, but making any kind of comparison to Barry Sanders is just ridiculous.
 

joeshmo

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cheesebeef said:
I'll also go on record as saying that if we DO wait until the second round to take a running back(and I hope we don't or I hope we already have a proven guy there by that point) - I DO like Arrington, but making any kind of comparison to Barry Sanders is just ridiculous.

What he said. :thumbup:
 

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i did'nt compare him to sanders directly what i said was he is a back in the same mold as far as size. under 6 feet a little over 200 ponds . sanders is one of kind he really can not be compared to on the field.
 

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insider1 said:
i did'nt compare him to sanders directly what i said was he is a back in the same mold as far as size. under 6 feet a little over 200 ponds . sanders is one of kind he really can not be compared to on the field.

my response wasn't to you as much as it was to Bobcat who compared his moves and size to Sanders - to that end I said it was ridiculous because someone with the same speed, size and moves and Sanders would be a sure-fire top 3 pick - not a second rounder.
 

Russ Smith

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joeshmo said:
Did you not read what I posted, becuase if you did you would know I did notice and even said Arrington would have still been on top if all things(amount of carries) were equal.

Just pointing out your arguement was way over dramatic and very misleading.


actually misleading is saying someone stats are the product of terrible run defenses completely ignoring that the stats don't support that. Arrington was nearly twice in total yards any other RB facing those weak defenses. The guy who's too small to be durable carried the ball more than any of them, and somehow that supports your argument?

How many OL's from Cal are being touted in this draft or the next? Not a one that I'm aware of, yet Arringtons season just gets glossed over by a bunch of people who are convinced it's the result of the passing system he plays in even though Cal was a better RUNNING team than passing team this year due to all the injuries to their WR's.

Not dramatic at all when people keep saying something that's entirely untrue, that Arrington feasted on bad run defenses. Did he play some weak run defenses, sure, so did every other RB that's going to be drafted, and none of them did it better than he did. He didn't play against a weak schedule he played in a major conference and put up 112 yards at over 5 yards a pop against USC. He went over 100 yards every game, that's all you can do, perform against every team you play.
 

Russ Smith

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cheesebeef said:
I'll also go on record as saying that if we DO wait until the second round to take a running back(and I hope we don't or I hope we already have a proven guy there by that point) - I DO like Arrington, but making any kind of comparison to Barry Sanders is just ridiculous.

Completely agree, totally different style or RB's JJ is not that style of RB, he'll slip tackles but he basically makes one cut and goes, hits the hole, runs hard, downhill. He's similar in size to Sanders but doesn't run anything like him in style.
 

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The point was that he is no smaller than Sanders (if you do google searches you will see this is true) and since Sanders was successful you cant say that he is too small to succeed in the NFL. I say a top corner is more of a priority since it is harder to come in and play as a CB. And after grabbing one of the top round 2 RBs, our team will be greatly improved and we should not complain. But I have the confidence Green will do whatever is the best decision.
 

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cheesebeef said:
this is utter BS - if he were a Barry Sanders type runner is size and moves(and he DOES have Barry Sanders speed) - he'd be a top three pick. Talk about hyperbole.

I wasn't saying he was the next coming of Barry Sanders, but his size, speed and moves in college reminds me of Barry Sanders. No way was I ever infering that he was as good as or would become Barry Sanders.

Take a Chill-pill man, your to tense right now. You shouldn't have come down on me that way.

Remember these same scouts and Coaches felt that Thomas Jones was going to be the next klk; Barber. Well as we all know he isn't


Bobcat :shrug: :cool:
 

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Bobcat said:
He is a BARRY SANDERS type of runner in size and moves.

Bobcat

if you throw the greatest running back of the modern era's name out there in comparison with another back, you should expect to be called ridiculous. No tenseness Bobcat - just a reaction to what I thought was a ridiculous comment - that's all. :thumbup:

I for one(and I think anyone else on this board) would think it would be ridiculous to say ANYONE has Barry Sanders type moves - the guy was truly an once in a lifetime type freak.

Sorry if you took it that I was coming down on you hard, it wasn't my intention - just as apparently it wasn't your intention to compare him to Barry Sanders(even though you did :D).
 

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cheesebeef said:
I for one(and I think anyone else on this board) would think it would be ridiculous to say ANYONE has Barry Sanders type moves - the guy was truly an once in a lifetime type freak.

Barry had such a unique style you can't even compare him to other Hall of Famers. There are plenty of elusive runningbacks who make defenders miss tackles but Barry did it in a way the left everyone wonder what just happened.
 

JeffGollin

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I love the War Room because of the way it organizes its draft board by ranking and round. And also because Dennis Green says he and Rod go by Best Player rankings.

But that doesn't mean the War Room is close to being right in their rankings.

For one thing, their stuff appears on newstands a week or so after the Combines, which means they probably go on press before the Combine results are made public. Which means they're not working on information from the Combine or Pro Days (which not necessarily pivotal, can tweak a player's overall rating somewhat). Which, in turn means they are working on information that can be outdated by as much as 7 weeks.

This, in turn, brings up another factor: You've got to figure that the way various teams grade out players, there can be as many as 20 players who grade out within a point of one another (i.e. all twenty players could be rated, say, at 88.5 and basically tied at #100 - #120. All you'd need is for last minute Combine or workout results to cause a player to go up to an 89.5 or down to an 87.5 and his ranking could jump to a #80 or drop to a #140).

The War Room, therefore, is great in that it helps us structure our thinking the way Dennis and Rod do, but by its very nature, is likely to give you evaluations that are somewhat "off" and should be taken generally rather than specifically.
 
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Russ Smith

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JeffGollin said:
IThe War Room, therefore, is great in that it helps us structure our thinking the way Dennis and Rod do, but by its very nature, is likely to give you evaluations that are somewhat "off" and should be taken generally rather than specifically.

With respect to the war room there's a good reason people here keep talking about JJ Arrington and it has nothing to do with being Pac 10 "homers", it's because Dennis Green, the man who creates the Cards draft board, is on record as saying he LOVES JJ Arrington. He may be lying, he may be exaggerating, he may be just trying to fool other teams, but THAT is why Arrington gets so much hype here.

I don't think for a second he's the best RB in the draft and that if we take him our RB problems are solved forever, but I do find it completely inaccurate when people say things like oh his stats are padded because the Pac 10 is so weak, or he's a system RB, or he's too small (he was 220 as a junior).

Last time I saw it, Arrington's season was something like the 8th best single season rushing mark in NCAA history. Top 5 were Barry Sanders, Marcus Allen, Troy Davis, Tomlinson and Mike Rozier so 3 of those 5 were great NFL players. Not exactly bad company to be in. Plays in a major conference, but because many never heard of him before this year they just assume he's a fluke as if it's a regular occurrence that a kid gets a starting job as a senior and rushes for 2000 yards on a passing team.
 

john h

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joeshmo said:
Yes I did watch him, and the top 3. There is no comparison. Especially with Arrington playing against notoriously horrible PAC 10 run D's.

He has good to great speed, but doesnt have the quicks, lateral movement, or elusiveness needed at his size. He is a north south runner and at his size that doesnt cut it in the NFL, it did in College but not the pros. He needs to learn that out running everyone just wont work in the NFL. He had a average week of practices at the senior bowl and a horrible game.

Not saying the guys sucks, becuase he has a ton of heart, determination, and smarts to go along with his great speed and catching ability, but he is not comparable to the top 3.

I did not see Arrington and have no idea but I did watch the Auburn RB's on many occasions and these guys are some kind of impressive. Which is better is hard to say. If one can block better than the other I might lean towards him but either should do well. I like both of them better than Benson who I also watched on various occasions.

Matt Jones has sort of disappeared out of the news. I see him around Little Rock.Hope this guy is there in round 4 because I think he is going to make an excellent receiver and with his size perhaps at TE
 

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RedStripe27 said:
I'll agree with you on that, but I never said that he was comparable to the Top 3. But it's not like the Top 3 are sure things either (except for Brown)- if Brown were to fall to us I'd be all over that. There are two blackholes on our team right now---RB and CB. It just depends on what each person feels is more important to take in Round 1. All of this is contingent on whether or not we deal for a RB before the draft however.

It is easier to pick a RB than a CB. You make fewer mistakes as they are easier to evaluate. We have been lousy in our CB selection over the years but we have a new crew picking now.
 

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According to Barry Sanders official site, he was 5-8 200. So he was a little shorter than Arrington and weighed less. Arrington came in at 214 at the combine and ran a 4.46
 
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