joe johnson

[scotsman13]

since the trade we have seen almost a differant player in jj. before the trade jj was forced towards the outside of the court to open up the lane for marbury. since marbury is no longer there we are having jj run most of our half court game and have seen a very differant player. he is now shooting .46% from the field. aveaging 22 points a game, 6 assist, 7.3 rebounds, 1.3 steals and 2.3 to's his 3 point shot attemps have dropped to 1 a game in this time.

i guess what i am trying to say is that without marbury and hardaway there jj is playing his game and it is paying off big time.
labron james the nba's golden child is only averaging 19.6 points, 5.8 rebounds and 6.2 assist a game. also jj did one of his best showing last night against doug christie one of the best defenders in the nba. we have also seen a crossover by jj of late that his been nothing less that unstoppable. all in all we may come out of this trade with a player who might soon be one of the best 2 guards in the nba and he was sitting under our noises the whole time.

 

[elindholm]

I won't be sold on Joe Johnson until he can do this in games that count. Right now, everyone knows that the Suns have given up on the season, so every game is basically exhibition for them.

Johnson has lit up the summer leagues and exhibition seasons in each of the last two years. We already know that he has these skills. The question has always been whether he can do it when the pressure is on. Unfortunately, there won't be any way to answer that question for quite some time, because the Suns are facing zero pressure for the rest of the season.

Remember how good Tsakalidis started to look at the end of the 2001-02 season, once the Suns had given up on the year and the pressure was off? That sure didn't last. I sure hope that Johnson can make the transition from exhibition play to serious NBA games, but from what we've seen in the past, I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
I won't be sold on Joe Johnson until he can do this in games that count. Right now, everyone knows that the Suns have given up on the season, so every game is basically exhibition for them.

Johnson has lit up the summer leagues and exhibition seasons in each of the last two years. We already know that he has these skills. The question has always been whether he can do it when the pressure is on. Unfortunately, there won't be any way to answer that question for quite some time, because the Suns are facing zero pressure for the rest of the season.

Remember how good Tsakalidis started to look at the end of the 2001-02 season, once the Suns had given up on the year and the pressure was off? That sure didn't last. I sure hope that Johnson can make the transition from exhibition play to serious NBA games, but from what we've seen in the past, I wouldn't bet on it.

I agree it is too early to tell. JJ had six great games at the end of last season and looked like a coming star. Then this year he looked worse than when he first came here (he didn't do much the first year but didn't tak a lot of bad shots either). However, I am encouraged and I continue to have high hopes he will be very good player.

I'm not sure the Tsakalidis comparison is quite fair. Big Jake's main problem before he was injured a year ago was that he was clueless about what to do in the triangle. He was moderately OK prior to his back injury on defense, but seemed to lose an awful lot following the injury.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
I won't be sold on Joe Johnson until he can do this in games that count. Right now, everyone knows that the Suns have given up on the season, so every game is basically exhibition for them.

That's a little unfair, don't you think? Just because we've decided to play our young guys and not really care about winning, I find it hard to believe the players don't want to win.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
That's a little unfair, don't you think? Just because we've decided to play our young guys and not really care about winning, I find it hard to believe the players don't want to win.

Considering all, it is harder to play well when there are a vast number of combinations of players on the floor, most guys don't know the plays, and don't know their defensive positions. It is easier to play well when everybody is together and the pressure is on than when defeat seems inevitable.

 

[fordronken]

Originally posted by Chaplin
That's a little unfair, don't you think? Just because we've decided to play our young guys and not really care about winning, I find it hard to believe the players don't want to win.

Yes, but you can't deny that he is playing with a great deal less pressure now than he was before the trade went down.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Considering all, it is harder to play well when there are a vast number of combinations of players on the floor, most guys don't know the plays, and don't know their defensive positions. It is easier to play well when everybody is together and the pressure is on than when defeat seems inevitable.

That's not what I said. I pointed out that Eric implied that we are tanking on purpose. I disagree with that--I don't think any NBA player would want to lose on purpose, just to get a good draft pick.

You guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by fordronken
Yes, but you can't deny that he is playing with a great deal less pressure now than he was before the trade went down.

Thats true. We will have to wait till next year however to see if he played poorly due to pressure from Penny, or the pressure of the game time situation.

There is no way for us to determine that until next year.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by fordronken
Yes, but you can't deny that he is playing with a great deal less pressure now than he was before the trade went down.

I absolutely agree with that.

Where's the confusion here?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
That's not what I said. I pointed out that Eric implied that we are tanking on purpose. I disagree with that--I don't think any NBA player would want to lose on purpose, just to get a good draft pick.

You guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying.

I totally agree with you Chap. Look at the Cards, didn't they win their last game, missing out on the first pick because of it??

(I dont follow football much, just thought that would be a good example)

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I totally agree with you Chap. Look at the Cards, didn't they win their last game, missing out on the first pick because of it??

(I dont follow football much, just thought that would be a good example)

Exactly.

As to Joe Johnson, I pretty much agree with everything you guys are saying about him. I think the lack of pressure he's feeling now is in no small part contributing to his fairly solid play for the past 3 games.

 

[scotsman13]

i personally think you are guys are wrong that pressure has nothing to do with it. if anything right now there is more pressure on jj to be productive. but what is happening is that jj is getting to play his game and not have to worry about trying to base his game off stephen or hardaway.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by scotsman13
i personally think you are guys are wrong that pressure has nothing to do with it. if anything right now there is more pressure on jj to be productive. but what is happening is that jj is getting to play his game and not have to worry about trying to base his game off stephen or hardaway.

I think the real pressure was from Penny, not from the nature of the games. None the less, I think he did not work well with Stephon.

 

[elindholm]

I pointed out that Eric implied that we are tanking on purpose.

I did not mean to imply that. Probably I should have said "a lot less pressure" instead of "no pressure."

I don't think the Suns are trying to lose. However, it is a common sports cliche that players and teams will often be more relaxed when the expectations are very low -- and sometimes that relaxed state enables them to play above themselves.

The Suns are trying to play as well as they can, but frankly they just aren't competitive at an NBA level with the current roster. That reality, in my opinion, frees the players to stop worrying about wins and losses and just think about playing the game. In Johnson's case, it appears that this makes him quite a bit more effective (at least so far), but I think all bets are off once the team starts sweating every W and L again.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
I pointed out that Eric implied that we are tanking on purpose.

I did not mean to imply that. Probably I should have said "a lot less pressure" instead of "no pressure."

I don't think the Suns are trying to lose. However, it is a common sports cliche that players and teams will often be more relaxed when the expectations are very low -- and sometimes that relaxed state enables them to play above themselves.

The Suns are trying to play as well as they can, but frankly they just aren't competitive at an NBA level with the current roster. That reality, in my opinion, frees the players to stop worrying about wins and losses and just think about playing the game. In Johnson's case, it appears that this makes him quite a bit more effective (at least so far), but I think all bets are off once the team starts sweating every W and L again.

I'd go further. If the Suns had really wanted to beat the Kings on Friday, they would have played mostly the pre-trade people. Even Amare and Carbakapa said the team's offense has changed a lot since they last played.

Winning is often about playing the best people rather than developing young ones. Right now I think they are focusing on the first rather than the second. It is a good plan.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I'd go further. If the Suns had really wanted to beat the Kings on Friday, they would have played mostly the pre-trade people. Even Amare and Carbakapa said the team's offense has changed a lot since they last played.

Well, let's see:

Pre-trade Players: Shawn, Jahidi, Jake, Casey, JJ, Barbosa, Googs, and Donnell.

They all played, except for Googs, but who really wants him to play, trade or no trade??

 

[Goldfield]

JJ has aton of potential... And he really is getting better all the time..

We just have to remember he is the same age as Amare. He is just very young, but I can see him slowly understanding how good he could really become.


I dont want to see him traded. I feel he is just going to bloom alittle later than expected, alot like Jermain O'neal...

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

Why do you guys think that he had pressure from Penny. Penny didn't distribute the minutes. He may have had to put up with Penny bickering about wanting more minutes but I don't think thats pressure. If anything JJ should have played better knowing that there was a pretty good shooting guard behind looking for a chance to play. On that note JJ is playing great. He may become another something like michael finley but the suns definately need a leader out there to play with him.

 

[Billythekid]

Either way there is still ALOT to salvage from this season and guys like JJ, Casey, Shawn have to prove they belong as part of this teams future.

I hope JJ continues to improve. He'll make a great backup subing in for KOBE and Shawn.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by PhiLLmattiC
Why do you guys think that he had pressure from Penny. Penny didn't distribute the minutes. He may have had to put up with Penny bickering about wanting more minutes but I don't think thats pressure. If anything JJ should have played better knowing that there was a pretty good shooting guard behind looking for a chance to play. On that note JJ is playing great. He may become another something like michael finley but the suns definately need a leader out there to play with him.

JJ lost his starting position last year to Penny and Penny did start some games this year and was in during crunch time. It may be that JJ made mistakes by trying too hard to prove himself rather than just play. It's just a theory and maybe the change is due to playing with Barbosa rather than Marbury.