Joe Johnson's defense

[matt_whitlock]

Everybody seems to agree that Joe Johnson is the Suns best defender. As you may have guessed, I'm not overly impressed. Basically, no matter what Frank Johnson claims, not only is JJ statistically not very outstanding, but we also do not gain any edge from his defense from a team standpoint. Let's look at a breakdown of this team's first 9 games in a shooting guard comparison against:

Spurs -
JJ: 3 points on 1-10 shooting (10%)
Ginobli: 7 points on 1-7 shooting (14%)

Cavs -
JJ: 9 points on 4-12 shooting (33%)
Lebron James: 22 points on 8-17 shooting (47%)

Lakers -
JJ: 20 points on 6-15 shooting (40%)
Kobe Bryant: 15 points on 4-12 shooting (33%)

Jazz -
JJ: 11 points on 4-13 shooting (30%)
Deshawn Stevenson: 16 points on 5-9 shooting (56%)

Grizzlies -
JJ: 12 points on 4-9 shooting (44%)
Mike Miller: 8 points on 4-11 shooting (36%)

Warriors -
JJ: 22 points on 10-21 shooting (47%)
Jason Richardson 22 points on 7-13 shooting (54%)

Hawks -
JJ: 8 points on 3-12 shooting (25%)
Dion Glover: 23 points on 8-14 shooting (57%)

Rockets -
JJ: 10 points on 4-12 shooting (33%)
Mobley: 10 points on 3-13 shooting (23%)

Pistons -
JJ: 14 points on 6-9 shooting (67%)
Rip Hamilton: 27 points on 10-20 shooting (50%)

So, as you can see, in 9 games, his opponent has outscored him in 7 of those games. The other two was Kobe's first night back, and Mike Miller.

Joe averages 12 points a game, to his opponents 15.5. His opponent is shooting an average of 43%, to Joe's seasonal average of 37%.

Only once has Joe shot over 50%, where as his opponent has done that 4 times.

 

[arthurracoon]

Unfortunately, JJ doesn't get as many minutes as his opponents usually, and thus isnt' guarding his man the whole game.

Furthermore, JJ is the 4th or 5th option on this team. He is going up against 1st and 2nd options on the other teams. Thus he is going up against players who take more shots, and some of which are better OFFENSIVE players than him[JJ].

 

[Chaplin]

sigh.

This thread is absolutely worthless because at least half of those players didn't even have Joe Johnson guarding them.

 

[elindholm]

Joe Johnson's poor offense has nothing to do with the quality of his defense. Was Dikembe Mutombo a poor defender, because his opposite number at center usually outscored him?

 

[elindholm]

Also, the point isn't that Joe Johnson's defense is world-class, but that it's much better than Hardaway's. Why don't you actually watch some games? You'll see that when Hardaway is in, his defensive lapses result in easy shots (or free throws) for the opposition time and time again.

 

[sly fly]

You wasted all that time copying those numbers?

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by sly fly
You wasted all that time copying those numbers?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Can someone ban this fool already?

It's quite apparent that this guy is the RealHardaway/NotaKiddfan/RKellysunsfan.

Come on, this guy is practically a Hardaway stalker.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I dont understand why his IP isn't banned instead of just his username......

 

[creed]

This guy is to be banned for being a Penny fan?


Man I hate Pennys guts but this seems extreme.

 

[fordronken]

Originally posted by creed
This guy is to be banned for being a Penny fan?


Man I hate Pennys guts but this seems extreme.

Every couple of months the same person under a different user name resurfaces and gets banned, then everyone starts telling some old stories about what a (insert word that can get you banned here) he was. Good times had by all.

 

[creed]

Well the guy tried to present an argument using facts and stats...hardly seems bannable material.


But then again...I guess they don't need a reason.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by creed
Well the guy tried to present an argument using facts and stats...hardly seems bannable material.


But then again...I guess they don't need a reason.

That's not really fair. We have only banned a few people in the last couple years. One or two of them were simply trolls, and the others were making up seeing or extremely derogatory comments. Generally people get a warning as well.

Matt_Whitlock may have a one track mind, but he hasn't come close to doing anything worth getting banned over (at least under this username). Frankly if I banned him I would probably have to ban myself because of a comment I made jokingly the other night about the extent of his feelings towards Penny Hardaway.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

But then again...I guess they don't need a reason.

The question is whether you think a ban should really just be a "suspension." Because that's what happens with t.r.h. He says something revolting and gets banned, then waits a while and simply comes back. Some ban.

It would be like if Pete Rose changed his name and tried to get a managing job, and everyone knew it was Pete Rose, but somehow it was decided that since it was only Pete Rose's name that was banned, it was okay for him to return to baseball under a new name. Makes no sense. We ban the person, not that name.

People aren't asking for matt_whitlock to be banned for anything he has posted recently (so far as I know). They're asking for the several previous bans to be enforced. Otherwise, let's stop calling them "bans" and just call them "suspensions." Let him go back to his old username, since we all know that's who he is anyway.

That might be a better system anyway. We all get carried away and write things that we shouldn't. Maybe if the penalty were changed from a ban to a suspension, we'd all feel a little more comfortable about seeing the punishment handed out. Heck, I wouldn't mind getting suspended for a couple of weeks, if I thought I deserved it. And Joe Mama can suspend himself for two days while he's at it.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
But then again...I guess they don't need a reason.

The question is whether you think a ban should really just be a "suspension." Because that's what happens with t.r.h. He says something revolting and gets banned, then waits a while and simply comes back. Some ban.

It would be like if Pete Rose changed his name and tried to get a managing job, and everyone knew it was Pete Rose, but somehow it was decided that since it was only Pete Rose's name that was banned, it was okay for him to return to baseball under a new name. Makes no sense. We ban the person, not that name.

People aren't asking for matt_whitlock to be banned for anything he has posted recently (so far as I know). They're asking for the several previous bans to be enforced. Otherwise, let's stop calling them "bans" and just call them "suspensions." Let him go back to his old username, since we all know that's who he is anyway.

That might be a better system anyway. We all get carried away and write things that we shouldn't. Maybe if the penalty were changed from a ban to a suspension, we'd all feel a little more comfortable about seeing the punishment handed out. Heck, I wouldn't mind getting suspended for a couple of weeks, if I thought I deserved it.

Sorry, no offense but isn't that a bit childish?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Sorry, no offense but isn't that a bit childish?

What is childish? Eric's post, or the fact that he's correct?

 

[elindholm]

Sorry, no offense but isn't that a bit childish?

Which part of it? Unless you can be more specific, I don't see how it's any more childish than any of my other posts.

 

[scotsman13]

chapin there are some problems with his posts, if joe johnson had been defending the guys that he posted here that would be one thing but jj wasnt guarding those guys. lebron james was guarded by marion, heck joe johnson spend some time guarding malone. whenever jj leaves the game penny comes in and guards his guy and lets the guy go off at that time. the thing about jj is that you can count on him playing hard on both ends of the court. you never have been able to do that with penny.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by scotsman13
chapin there are some problems with his posts, if joe johnson had been defending the guys that he posted here that would be one thing but jj wasnt guarding those guys. lebron james was guarded by marion, heck joe johnson spend some time guarding malone. whenever jj leaves the game penny comes in and guards his guy and lets the guy go off at that time. the thing about jj is that you can count on him playing hard on both ends of the court. you never have been able to do that with penny.

Chaplin was responding to Hcsilla, not the original post.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Chaplin was responding to Hcsilla, not the original post.

Joe Mama

That's it. I officially have no idea what the hell is going on in this thread.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Lol,

Just to clarify what I meant, like Eric said I was wondering why his previous ban didn't stick. He hasn't done anything under this name to warrant a ban (other than annoy the hell out of me )

He was also NotaKidFan1 or something like that. (I think most of us will remember that 12 page locked thread.....)

 

[jwalker11]

chapin there are some problems with his posts, if joe johnson had been defending the guys that he posted here that would be one thing but jj wasnt guarding those guys. lebron james was guarded by marion, heck joe johnson spend some time guarding malone. whenever jj leaves the game penny comes in and guards his guy and lets the guy go off at that time. the thing about jj is that you can count on him playing hard on both ends of the court. you never have been able to do that with penny.

I'm not sure that's necesarily what matt_whitlock is arguing here. Sure, he posted that huge pile of stats yesturday, but his main opinion is that this team needs to start Penny. Honestly, I'm a big JJ fan, but unless we start seeing some wins I don't see why we shouldn't go back to what has worked in the past.

Joe Johnson is a great defender, is an adequite scorer, a great ball-handler and a surprisingly effective passer, but maybe for some reason that doesn't always work for this team. If somebody devises a fool-proof formula for winning on this board, that person will be the first. I agree that all those qualities JJ has are important, but maybe the way he brings them doesn't exactly lead to wins. In fact, whether it's Joe's fault or not, we know it doesn't.

I don't think Penny's 10 points, 4 boards and 4 assists make him worthy of all-star consideration, but is it impossible that the way he goes about getting those stats is the real thing that matters?

 

[elindholm]

I'm not sure that's necesarily what matt_whitlock is arguing here.

Who are you, Gollum?

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by elindholm
I'm not sure that's necesarily what matt_whitlock is arguing here.

Who are you, Gollum?

ROFL!

Joe Mama

 

[jwalker11]

From the Lord of the Rings?