Joey Harrington could be released

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
13,018
Reaction score
5,288
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Following article from Detroit Newspaper on 1/12/05
Any Cardinal fans want him or Mike McMahon??
AZ JAM



Sources say Lions considering releasing Harrington
Wednesday, January 12, 2005
By Tom Kowalski
ALLEN PARK -- Quarterback Joey Harrington's career in Detroit might be over.

According to sources close to the situation, the Detroit Lions are considering releasing Harrington in late February, prior to paying him a scheduled $3 million roster bonus.

In addition to the bonus, Harrington will make nearly $5 million in salary for the 2005 season -- there has been heated debate within the Lions organization about whether to make the additional financial investment in Harrington.
"That decision hasn't been made yet," said a Lions source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "We're looking at all the options."

According to several sources, Lions president Matt Millen wants to bring Harrington back but the team's offensive coaching staff wants to go in another direction. After Sherm Lewis was forced out of his offensive coordinator job one day after the regular season ended on Jan. 2, he wrote letters to Millen, team owner William Clay Ford and vice chairman Bill Ford Jr., stating that the Lions would never win with Harrington playing quarterback.

Lewis, who officially "retired" following the season, said Harrington didn't have the intangibles to be a winning quarterback in the NFL. Lewis' letter did not come as a surprise to anyone in the organization because he was never in Harrington's corner. Still, it shows the level of disagreement between the different factions.

Millen was in San Francisco for a scouting trip on Tuesday and was unavailable for comment.

Members of the Lions front office, coaching staff and scouting department are expected to meet several times over the next five weeks to discuss whether Harrington will return. While money will be an issue, it won't be the deal-breaker in either situation (whether they keep or cut him).

By cutting Harrington now, the Lions would face an immediate salary cap hit of $5.5 million, but it wouldn't affect their ability to re-sign their own free agents and pursue other unrestricted free agents.

The debate will be whether the Lions believe Harrington is the player who can ultimately lead the Lions to the Super Bowl.

One of the factors in deciding whether to keep Harrington is Detroit's other available options. Backup quarterback Mike McMahon, who had the support of both Mariucci and Lewis, doesn't appear to be a candidate for the 2005 season.

Because the Lions would have to release Harrington prior to the start of the free agency signing period and the college draft, there is no guarantee who the Lions could acquire. Other quarterbacks, who are currently in backup roles, could also be available via trade.

According to sources, Millen wants to make sure that -- whatever the decision is -- everyone in the organization stands behind it.

After three years and 44 career starts, Harrington has not lived up to the billing of the third overall selection in the 2002 draft.

While he has shown improvement in each of the last three years, and his statistics this season were good, they were not overly impressive in the league's current pass-happy trend. Harrington completed 56 percent of his passes for more than 3,000 yards, but threw only 19 touchdown passes.

Harrington threw for more than 300 yards only twice all season and that came in two of the final three games, which is the core of the team's internal debate.

According to sources, Millen believes Harrington's growth was stunted by the conservative offense of head coach Steve Mariucci. Meanwhile, Mariucci believes his West Coast system was crippled by Harrington's lack of accuracy and leadership.

At the urging of Millen, Mariucci surrendered his play-calling duties in the final three games and, with quarterback coach Greg Olson taking over, Harrington became more aggressive. Still, the Lions lost both games in which Harrington threw for more than 300 yards.

The Lions are searching for a new offensive coordinator and received permission from the San Francisco 49ers to talk to their offensive coordinator, Ted Tollner. Other candidates are believed to still be coaching in the playoffs and the Lions can't approach them until their teams are knocked out of the Super Bowl chase.

As the Lions continue to debate Harrington's future, one thing appears certain. If Harrington returns, he will not have his contract restructured. Harrington has offered to get his deal re-done but the Lions aren't interested.

If Harrington were to play the 2005 season with the Lions, his salary cap number would be just under $10 million. The Lions can absorb that for this year and also make it easier for them to release Harrington next season (for a cap hit of less than $4 million).

If the Lions restructure Harrington's deal, however, and then want to cut him next year, the cap hit would be closer to $8 million.
 

Redsz

We do this together
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Posts
4,965
Reaction score
2,659
I would have no idea how I would feel if we signed him. I really don't know too much about him in terms of measureables. How strong is his arm?

I do know that he has struggled with his recievers getting banged up all the time. Espically Rogers who seems to break in half walking into a stiff breeze. And that he didn't have much of a running game to support him until recently.

Aparently he has a 'quirky' personality that his team have had trouble getting used to.

Detriot would be pretty foolish to cut him IMO. There isn't any options out there if they do.
 
Last edited:

CaptTurbo

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 5, 2003
Posts
16,782
Reaction score
5
Location
Pennsylvania
This guy would set our frqanchse at QB fo rthe next 8 years.

I would sign him in a heartbeat! he isnt Joe Monttana but he will, with our recievers, make Josh look like the insurance salesman he is.
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Posts
53,873
Reaction score
19,669
Location
CA
no way...stay away Joey I'd rather have Mike McMahon...and not that much...
 
Last edited:

BACH

Superbowl, Homeboy!
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
6,158
Reaction score
1,971
Location
Expat in Kuala Lumpur
Send Navarra to NFL Europe
Cut King
Keep McCown
Sign Harrington
Sign Brad Johnson as mentor for McCown and Harrington
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,551
Reaction score
40,361
He hasn't had a lot to work with there but he's not a great QB by any means. He shot up the draft after the season and went much higher than he should of.

This could actually work to our advantage a little bit if we play it right. Assuming Leinart comes out he and Rodgers are gone by 8. If there is no Derrick Johnson there for us, and Detroit needs a QB, we may be able to swap spots with them so they get Alex Smith, we get their 10th pick, and pick up an extra pick or 2 later on?

I wouldn't be opposed to picking Harrington up but he's not very accurate and he's not a BIG arm guy, Josh has a better arm, Harrington is much more poised in the pocket, but he also turns it over more than Josh. My guess is if he got cut there are NFL teams that would be willing to pick him up and give him a chance to start so he probably wouldn't take a backup job.
 

TRW

ASFN Addict
Joined
Jan 13, 2003
Posts
7,904
Reaction score
7,677
Location
Avondale, AZ
No way Harrington is a backup to Josh Frekin' McCown. If he signs here, he's the starter, he's a better QB than McCown will EVER be IMO. He's not a superstar per se but he's a very good QB and will play a long, long time in the league as a starter, something Josh will NOT.
 

Toro

Registered
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Posts
1,044
Reaction score
0
I like Harrington. IMO he struggled due to the lack of good receivers. He played better when Roy Williams was healthy. He has been in the league for three or four years and I would think he is ready for all the lightbulbs to start coming on. I would sign him. I also would be interested in Hasselbeck.
 

CaptTurbo

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 5, 2003
Posts
16,782
Reaction score
5
Location
Pennsylvania
Yup and for all those that thinks it takes years to become an nfl qb. Harrington fits you as well. 3 years as starter right? Lightbulbs coming on as they say. Seems he is the perfect fit for everyone.
 

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,877
swd1974 said:
This guy would set our frqanchse at QB fo rthe next 8 years.

I would sign him in a heartbeat! he isnt Joe Monttana but he will, with our recievers, make Josh look like the insurance salesman he is.


I am with you!

I don't see the problem with Harrington. Plus Green would ask him to do less in ARizona. Just get the ball into our WR hands, and the talent will do the rest.
:thumbup:
 

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,877
LoyaltyisaCurse said:
no way...stay away Joey I'd rather have Mike McMahon...and not that much...


We have the equivalent of McMahon in McCown. Both do not read defenses well, and both have accuracy problems.

Peace
:thumbup:
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,551
Reaction score
40,361
TRW said:
No way Harrington is a backup to Josh Frekin' McCown. If he signs here, he's the starter, he's a better QB than McCown will EVER be IMO. He's not a superstar per se but he's a very good QB and will play a long, long time in the league as a starter, something Josh will NOT.

Oh I agree but I don't think we'd GUARANTEE him the job, and other teams would. I would not be opposed to him at all, there's a lot of things about him I like, but there are a lot of downsides too. His YPA numbers were horrible his first 2 years, just over 5, he got over 6 this year. Part of that was that he stopped throwing the ball away so much to avoid sacks. 17 sacks in ~ 1000 attempts his first 2 years combined, 36 sacks this year in just about half the attempts. In other words he was sacked 4 times as often this year as the first 2 because the Lions encouraged him to hold the ball longer to give the WR's a chance to get open.

Definitely hasn't had much to work with, rogers hurt, Roy Williams WAS the offense for much of the first half, then he got hurt and finally Kevin Jones came on.

If you look at stats he made BIG strides this year, nearly doubled the number of 20+ yard passes(52 first 2 years combined, 43 this year), rating jumped nearly 15 points to 77.5, cut his INT's(first year with more TD's than picks). The problem is how much of that was development, and how much was the wide open passing offense in the NFL this year due to the way refs call defensive holding now?

I'd certainly take a shot at getting him but you can't pay him huge money and I'm not sure some other team won't. He's just got some real weaknesses in terms of accuracy that I wonder if he'll ever fix, 56% this year was his career best.
 

Big D

...and STILL...
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Posts
818
Reaction score
389
Location
Chandler
Mr. piano man is nothing special but he is better than what we have right now. If the price is right (and DET actually gets rid of him which I doubt they will do) I'm all for it.
 

Cardinal Bob

Glutton for Punishment
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Posts
2,454
Reaction score
283
Location
Garwood, NJ
swd1974 said:
Yup and for all those that thinks it takes years to become an nfl qb. Harrington fits you as well. 3 years as starter right? Lightbulbs coming on as they say. Seems he is the perfect fit for everyone.

Let's see, 3-yrs. of playing regularly vs. 2-yrs. standing and watching and 1-yr. actually playing...yeah, that' the same. :rolleyes: Harrington is proof that McCown that will always suck...no room for improvement...yup. One guy is a lost cause and the other guy will "set our franchse at QB for the next 8 years." Yup...umm-hmm! :rolleyes:
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
how much was the wide open passing offense in the NFL this year due to the way refs call defensive holding now?

People keep bringing that up but it sure didn't help the Cardinals passing numbers this season. In fact they were slightly worse than in 2003.

'03 56.7% completion 2,959 yards 18TD 22INT

'04 56.1% 2,882 yards 14TD 18INT
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,551
Reaction score
40,361
Big D said:
Mr. piano man is nothing special but he is better than what we have right now. If the price is right (and DET actually gets rid of him which I doubt they will do) I'm all for it.

I tend to agree, I don't see them doing it until after they know they have a replacement either via trade, FA or draft.

But if the goal is to avoid the bonus because they don't think he's worht the investment, that may override the logic of waiting.

I think best case scenario is Detroit is trying to trade up from #10 in the draft to get a QB and some team can take advantage of that and get extra picks.
 

CaptTurbo

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 5, 2003
Posts
16,782
Reaction score
5
Location
Pennsylvania
Cardinal Bob said:
Let's see, 3-yrs. of playing regularly vs. 2-yrs. standing and watching and 1-yr. actually playing...yeah, that' the same. :rolleyes: Harrington is proof that McCown that will always suck...no room for improvement...yup. One guy is a lost cause and the other guy will "set our franchse at QB for the next 8 years." Yup...umm-hmm! :rolleyes:


Comprehension problem?

My post said IF you believe it takes 3 years of starting to be great or very good why not grab the guy who has played his 3 years? This way we do not wate 2 more FULL years on developing someone else?

Get it? Its really, really super easy math when you think about it. Addition and subtraction really. not even a fraction in their :thumbup:
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
Cardinal Bob said:
Let's see, 3-yrs. of playing regularly vs. 2-yrs. standing and watching and 1-yr. actually playing...yeah, that' the same. :rolleyes: Harrington is proof that McCown that will always suck...no room for improvement...yup. One guy is a lost cause and the other guy will "set our franchse at QB for the next 8 years." Yup...umm-hmm! :rolleyes:

Well there are a lot of so called NFL experts who think that it is better for a QB to sit and watch for 1-2 years before playing rather than being thrown to the wolves as a rookie.
 

Rocco

All Star
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Posts
923
Reaction score
0
Russ Smith said:
He hasn't had a lot to work with there but he's not a great QB by any means. He shot up the draft after the season and went much higher than he should of.

This could actually work to our advantage a little bit if we play it right. Assuming Leinart comes out he and Rodgers are gone by 8. If there is no Derrick Johnson there for us, and Detroit needs a QB, we may be able to swap spots with them so they get Alex Smith, we get their 10th pick, and pick up an extra pick or 2 later on?

I wouldn't be opposed to picking Harrington up but he's not very accurate and he's not a BIG arm guy, Josh has a better arm, Harrington is much more poised in the pocket, but he also turns it over more than Josh. My guess is if he got cut there are NFL teams that would be willing to pick him up and give him a chance to start so he probably wouldn't take a backup job.

Nice draft/trade scenario.
 

Rocco

All Star
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Posts
923
Reaction score
0
Russ Smith said:
Oh I agree but I don't think we'd GUARANTEE him the job, and other teams would. I would not be opposed to him at all, there's a lot of things about him I like, but there are a lot of downsides too. His YPA numbers were horrible his first 2 years, just over 5, he got over 6 this year. Part of that was that he stopped throwing the ball away so much to avoid sacks. 17 sacks in ~ 1000 attempts his first 2 years combined, 36 sacks this year in just about half the attempts. In other words he was sacked 4 times as often this year as the first 2 because the Lions encouraged him to hold the ball longer to give the WR's a chance to get open.

Definitely hasn't had much to work with, rogers hurt, Roy Williams WAS the offense for much of the first half, then he got hurt and finally Kevin Jones came on.

If you look at stats he made BIG strides this year, nearly doubled the number of 20+ yard passes(52 first 2 years combined, 43 this year), rating jumped nearly 15 points to 77.5, cut his INT's(first year with more TD's than picks). The problem is how much of that was development, and how much was the wide open passing offense in the NFL this year due to the way refs call defensive holding now?

I'd certainly take a shot at getting him but you can't pay him huge money and I'm not sure some other team won't. He's just got some real weaknesses in terms of accuracy that I wonder if he'll ever fix, 56% this year was his career best.

From what I've heard from friends in Detroit, Harrington has the same problem as Josh right now - a tendency to "turtle" (as Conrad would say) when the game really matters. It's a mental toughness thing. Getting cut may be to his benefit in the long run.

He has his flaws but at least there's an upside with this guy compared with the virtually over-the-hill guys that are available right now. Bring him in and let him compete with Josh. At the very least, we should get more production from our passing game next year.

On the other hand, Sherm Lewis and Green are old buddies - maybe Sherm talks Denny out of it.
 

BACH

Superbowl, Homeboy!
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
6,158
Reaction score
1,971
Location
Expat in Kuala Lumpur
Russ Smith said:
I tend to agree, I don't see them doing it until after they know they have a replacement either via trade, FA or draft.

But if the goal is to avoid the bonus because they don't think he's worht the investment, that may override the logic of waiting.

I think best case scenario is Detroit is trying to trade up from #10 in the draft to get a QB and some team can take advantage of that and get extra picks.

I think that's the exact scenario. If he's released it will happen before March 1.

But, do you think there are any takers for Harrington in a trade at his current contract?? Harrington will refuse to renegotiate to either keep his current contract or force a release.
 

Pariah

H.S.
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Posts
35,345
Reaction score
18
Location
The Aventine
I like him okay. He might be more suited to throw ball to the type of WR we have (strong, possesion-type) than the WRs he's worked with so far in the NFL (speed, big-play-type).

If he's affordable I would hope that he is strongly considered.
 

TRW

ASFN Addict
Joined
Jan 13, 2003
Posts
7,904
Reaction score
7,677
Location
Avondale, AZ
I don't think Harrington will be here, was just responding that he would be better than Josh and would be the starter immediately IMO.

Personall, I'm with Russ, you don't throw tons of cash at Joey Harrington. If you can get him at the right price fine, otherwise let him go to Dallas or Miami or somewhere else.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,551
Reaction score
40,361
TRW said:
I don't think Harrington will be here, was just responding that he would be better than Josh and would be the starter immediately IMO.

Personall, I'm with Russ, you don't throw tons of cash at Joey Harrington. If you can get him at the right price fine, otherwise let him go to Dallas or Miami or somewhere else.


San Francisco might even look at him so they can justify taking a defensive player or trading out of the top spot in the draft.
 

40yearfan

DEFENSE!!!!
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
35,013
Reaction score
456
Location
Phoenix, AZ.
We should change the name of this thread to "The grass is always greener thread". Wanting to make a change just for the sake of making a change will not advance this football team. We'd be better off with a proven QB and not just one with "potential".
 
Top