Joey Porter unlikely to return to Cardinals

[PJ1]

I don't want to keep Porter at all. He is done. The last thing I want to see is more of him getting stoned at the line and then just standing there why pass after pass is completed. No thank you. Get some new LB's in here.

 

[Duckjake]

I dont have 3rd and long stats either but out of all rushing plays 23.4% of them were for first down. Surprisingly we weren't even in the bottom 10. I would of thought we were in the bottom 3 minimum. Some pretty good defenses who held teams under 20 points a game were worse or just as good as us - Falcons, Patriots, Bears, Tampa. Just goes to show even the best defenses will have weaknesses.

The Cards were 22nd in % Which is only one spot out of the bottom 10.

The Cardinals were bottom three in number of first downs allowed rushing, 123. The Steelers by comparison had 61. The Cards only gave up 178 first downs through the air. The Steelers by comparison had over 180.

Another indictment of the run defense: only the Broncos gave up more 20+ yard running plays.

 

[joeshmo]

Just watch. It is just starting. Smaller defenses will be countered more and more by big backs.

Pitt has two of the smallest ILB's in the NFL. It isn't about size, its about tackling ability. Did we give up a lot of long run plays on 3rd down because Schofield was only 230 pounds, or did we give up long run plays because Lenon didn't know how to wrap up and DRC didn't even try? Did we give up long run plays because of size or because of technique and guys being out of place?

Like Horton says he wants big guys that can run and small guys that can hit. You can have it both ways and both ways can work.

 

[joeshmo]

The Cardinals were bottom three in number of first downs allowed rushing, 123. The Steelers by comparison had 61. The Cards only gave up 178 first downs through the air. The Steelers by comparison had over 180.

Lets put things into context.

You cannot look at totals because not all totals are created equal. Of course Pitt is going to have more 1st downs through the air, teams could not and did not try to run against them so teams passed against then against us. 30.7% versus our 33.4% tells the much clearer story.

Same principle applies for the rushing totals. Where were the rankings in terms of ratio's?

Using just the totals is skewing the picture, using ratios puts all teams on the same playing field.

Like telling someone you beat them in a free throw contest because you made 10 baskets and they only made 8. When in reality the person that made 10 threw up 50 tries where as the person who threw up 8 tried 25. Who is the better free throw shooter?

 

[Duckjake]

Pitt has two of the smallest ILB's in the NFL. It isn't about size, its about tackling ability. Did we give up a lot of long run plays on 3rd down because Schofield was only 230 pounds, or did we give up long run plays because Lenon didn't know how to wrap up and DRC didn't even try? Did we give up long run plays because of size or because of technique and guys being out of place?

Like Horton says he wants big guys that can run and small guys that can hit. You can have it both ways and both ways can work.

You are not paying attention. I am talking about a 2-4-5 Defense not a base defense. Run that with undersized Dlinemen and Linebackers and teams will run at it. It happened several times to the Cards last season not because Lenon couldn't wrap up but because the offensive line of the other team simply overwhelmed our defenders.

Dockett-Campbell

Haggans,Lenon,Washington,Scofield

DRC,Adams,Wilson,Rhodes and Toler.

To use an old cliche' where's the beef?

And Pittsburghs inside linebackers are the same size as Green Bays. Almost every team in the NFL has an ILB at 6'1" 240. Of course every time somebody brings up Pittsburgh's "small" linebackers they conveniently leave out Woodley who is 6'2" 265!

 

[Hypothesis]

I don't want to keep Porter at all. He is done. The last thing I want to see is more of him getting stoned at the line and then just standing there why pass after pass is completed. No thank you. Get some new LB's in here.

Problem with Porter and most of our defense I think was scheme and how they were utilized. I think it would be beneficial to keep him in this shortened offseason. I don't think any rookie would come in and start and there aren't likely to be many 3-4 OLBs available via FA that could come in and pick up the system very quick anyhow.

 

[vinnymac]

The bottom line about the Cardinals defense is that they were inconsistent, didn't tackle well, and they gave up to many big plays. It doesn't matter which defense they were in. The defense was awful. Everybody that watch any of the games know that the Cardinals fell short and that is why they have the honor of having the 5th overall pick in the draft.

 

[PJ1]

Problem with Porter and most of our defense I think was scheme and how they were utilized. I think it would be beneficial to keep him in this shortened offseason. I don't think any rookie would come in and start and there aren't likely to be many 3-4 OLBs available via FA that could come in and pick up the system very quick anyhow.

As it pertains to Porter I disagree. We have wasted enough money on him. Nothing to gain by bringing him back. He no longer has it.

 

[Hypothesis]

As it pertains to Porter I disagree. We have wasted enough money on him. Nothing to gain by bringing him back. He no longer has it.

eh, I think going back to the zone blitz scheme where he isn't asked to try to out muscle OTs will benefit him. I think he still can be an 8-10 sack guy if used properly. And his knowledge of the zone blitz will help ease the learning curve of others.

I do think he needs to redo his contract drastically.

 

[Cardiac]

eh, I think going back to the zone blitz scheme where he isn't asked to try to out muscle OTs will benefit him. I think he still can be an 8-10 sack guy if used properly. And his knowledge of the zone blitz will help ease the learning curve of others.

I do think he needs to redo his contract drastically.

I agree with everything here except the bolded. He may have to redo his contract but if there is no FA then who cares how much Porter makes in his last year with us. If there is FA and Porter's salary limits what we can spend then I consider asking him to restructure but if you do believe he could get 8 to 10 sacks and we agree he will be a HUGE asset in helping players transition to the new D then it is money well spent IMO.

 

[BigRedRage]

personally I saw Porter getting constant pressue and constantly being holded when he did so.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

personally I saw Porter getting constant pressue and constantly being holded when he did so.

BIM: held

 

[JeffGollin]

The early buzz I'm picking up about Joey and other defensive players is that at least a couple of them may have been playing hurt and can be expected to play much better if and when healthy.

Therefore, I'd be inclined to agree with "not so fast."

 

[BigRedRage]

BIM: held

eh, it was early!

 

[kerouac9]

personally I saw Porter getting constant pressue and constantly being holded when he did so.

What was it like watching Steelers and Dolphin games from 2000 until 2008?

 

[BigRedRage]

What was it like watching Steelers and Dolphin games from 2000 until 2008?

are you insinuating im talking about prior to him being a cardinal? About every game in cardinal red I would see him getting past the tackle amnd closing in only to have his facemask or shoulder pad in the tackles hand. Not like I watched him every play to see how he did but i did see constant pressure over the first 10 weeks.

 

[kerouac9]

are you insinuating im talking about prior to him being a cardinal? About every game in cardinal red I would see him getting past the tackle amnd closing in only to have his facemask or shoulder pad in the tackles hand. Not like I watched him every play to see how he did but i did see constant pressure over the first 10 weeks.

I'm suggesting that you weren't watching the games that I was watching, where he'd continually get stood up by the most mediocre of offensive tackles the NFL has to offer and be unable to defeat blocks. Over and over and over again.

I just watched three TD highlights from the Atlanta game, and in one Porter got easily handled by the LT, in another he had a free path to the QB and couldn't get there, and the third he came inside on a stunt and couldn't get past the LG.

Joey Porter is just not very good. You can live with him as the third-best linebacker in your group, but he's not a guy that any team is concerned about defending.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'm suggesting that you weren't watching the games that I was watching, where he'd continually get stood up by the most mediocre of offensive tackles the NFL has to offer and be unable to defeat blocks. Over and over and over again.

I just watched three TD highlights from the Atlanta game, and in one Porter got easily handled by the LT, in another he had a free path to the QB and couldn't get there, and the third he came inside on a stunt and couldn't get past the LG.

Joey Porter is just not very good. You can live with him as the third-best linebacker in your group, but he's not a guy that any team is concerned about defending.

Amen...I can understand that he wasn't suited to cover receivers in the flat, but the fact that he couldn't generate any semblance of a pass rush, despite being single teamed the majority of the time says all you need to know about Mr. Porter. He's D-O-N-E.

 

[kerouac9]

Amen...I can understand that he wasn't suited to cover receivers in the flat, but the fact that he couldn't generate any semblance of a pass rush, despite being single teamed the majority of the time says all you need to know about Mr. Porter. He's D-O-N-E.

Yup. I thought that Porter was half-assing it through the preseason, so I keyed on him at the Oakland game to see if he had anything at all left. Porter was lined up across from Mario Henderson, a player who gave up 10.5 sacks in 2009 and was benched halfway through 2010.

Porter couldn't do anything against Henderson. Couldn't run around him; couldn't run through him. Paris Lenon was a better player in 2010 than Joey Porter was.

 

[BigRedRage]

either way, I saw him get penetration many times, which was his job, and he was being held. If you saw differently, good for you.

he is clearly not cut out to be an every down guy and seemed to gas even more at the end of the season but I did see pressure.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Paris Lenon was a better player in 2010 than Joey Porter was.

Comparing who the better player was, Porter or Lenon, is enough to make me sick. What's next, who was better Anderson or Hall ?

 

[kerouac9]

Comparing who the better player was, Porter or Lenon, is enough to make me sick. What's next, who was better Anderson or Hall ?

Anderson. Clearly. :canofworms:

The issue is that Paris Lenon was a small-dollar, small-text signing and Porter was a bold-font, front-page signing (which was weird because no one else in the NFL wanted him). Lenon was not good this year (he was Ronald McKinnon bad), but Paris Lenon was awful. He made Chike Okeafor and Bertrand Berry look adequate.

 

[THESMEL]

Porter has been passed his prime just like Faneca, No even the slightest doubt in any world about that.

The dumb AZ Coaching staff and GM that hired them for big bucks, letting the likes of Reggie Wells and Cody Brown to walk. Now there in lies the blame.

We cutt Matt leinart, Rolle, R Wells, Hood, and they were not the problem with the Arizona Cardinal Football Club Team.

The problem is still in charge!

 

[BigRedRage]

Wells is the only cut I didnt agree with out of those. Would you keep rolle over rhodes? I wouldnt.

 

[freebyrd]

won't miss porter much, though i think he may be one of those rare players like ray lewis who has a lot left in the tank he just need the right motivation to bring it out,
our coaching hasn't been able to do that, if he doe's stay i would like to see what horton could do with him though