John Skelton

[Jetstream Green]

I do not care how long Kolb has been in the league compared to Skelton, because the problem is Kolb still does not know OUR offense and it shows when he plays. Skelton does and has the superior arm and he wins..I would start Skelton right now regardless of Kolb's health

 

[Seandonic]

My concerns about Skleton ever being more than a journeyman:
1) Slow delivery
2) Huge windup in his throwing motion
3) Accuarcy

You are right about number 3 but way off on 1 and 2. I've never known you to be anything less than an astute poster though and I think I might know what you saw to make you believe 1 and 2 were correct. I noticed that on many of Skeltons touch passes, he slows down his delivery. However, when it comes to putting touch on passes, this is a good thing.

I'm also hoping the accuracy issue is more of a comfort issue than an arm issue.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The sports science thing doesnt agree with 1 and 2.

+1

I agree. I have no idea how he could state either of those falsehoods in print.

1. As for those calling out Skelton for being up and down. All I will say to that is, I would rather have an up and down QB than someone like Kolb who is just down....period.

2. For those complaining that Kolb hasn't gotten any chance to "learn the system". Has one season under his belt as a pro (less then Kolb), Skelton had no offseason this year, and furthermore had limited reps because of injury at the beginning of the year, and the need to get Kolb reps as well. So, give me a break! Kolb needs more time ? Maybe if we are talking about time sitting on the pine.

3. Skelton shows more poise, more confidence, a better arm, better decision making, better reading the field, better pocket presence, has more upside, and is younger.

I hope and pray the Cardinals show some humility, and lose the ego, and just start Skelton.

Please Cardinals, please, do the right thing and start John Skelton.

 

[Phrazbit]

Great win by the team today.

Skelton is frustrating because for every really nice play he makes, he makes a play that is terrible. He seems to bounce back well, which is the trait I like most about him. I'm not sure that he is the guy, and I still think that you have to go back to Kolb when he is 100% healthy. Skelton is obviously more comfortable in the offense that Skelton, but I just don't see a good enough reason to give up on the QB that we have invested so much in. This will be a hard decision for the Cards coaching staff.

Does it matter what the investment is? Who cares, just play the better quarterback. Not only does Skelton look like he has far greater potential but he is a flat out better player RIGHT NOW!

They made a mistake, an horrendous mistake trading for Kolb. There is no point in compounding the mistake by tossing away what remains of the season and by extension, Skelton's development just to avoid the embarrassment of acknowledging their failure.

Best case scenario, the Cards shop Kolb in the offseason and dupe some team into giving up a late round pick just so the Cards can get out from under his contract.

 

[gmabel830]

Does it matter what the investment is? Who cares, just play the better quarterback. Not only does Skelton look like he has far greater potential but he is a flat out better player RIGHT NOW!

They made a mistake, an horrendous mistake trading for Kolb. There is no point in compounding the mistake by tossing away what remains of the season and by extension, Skelton's development just to avoid the embarrassment of acknowledging their failure.

Best case scenario, the Cards shop Kolb in the offseason and dupe some team into giving up a late round pick just so the Cards can get out from under his contract.

If I am the owner, this matters A LOT to me in terms of the long-term employment of my general manager and coach who made the decision that we needed to go out and spend big money in terms of compensation and salary for a young QB.

I'll also say this, I'm not smart enough and don't have the time to dissect every single play, but who's to say that Skelton isn't in there with a dramatically more simplistic gameplan than Kolb? Skelton missed a lot of time earlier this year and got thrown in on short notice, so the offensive gameplan might have been scaled back for him (again, I have no idea if this is the case or not, just throwing it out there as a possibility). There's been a few articles posted about the Niners success used a much more simplified offensive system with Alex Smith. There's A LOT that would go into a decision about which QB you want to develop in the long-term beyond just looking at the wins and losses.

I do think Skelton has looked better than Kolb, but there might be a lot more that the coaches know/see that the average fan does not see.

 

[Phrazbit]

If I am the owner, this matters A LOT to me in terms of the long-term employment of my general manager and coach who made the decision that we needed to go out and spend big money in terms of compensation and salary for a young QB.

I'll also say this, I'm not smart enough and don't have the time to dissect every single play, but who's to say that Skelton isn't in there with a dramatically more simplistic gameplan than Kolb? Skelton missed a lot of time earlier this year and got thrown in on short notice, so the offensive gameplan might have been scaled back for him (again, I have no idea if this is the case or not, just throwing it out there as a possibility). There's been a few articles posted about the Niners success used a much more simplified offensive system with Alex Smith. There's A LOT that would go into a decision about which QB you want to develop in the long-term beyond just looking at the wins and losses.

I do think Skelton has looked better than Kolb, but there might be a lot more that the coaches know/see that the average fan does not see.

I dont recall them doing many end-arounds and screens with Kolb. If anything they've added some flare with Skelton.

And if I am the owner I want the team to wins and fans in the seats. I dont want fans not showing up and booing the team as their QB takes another 15 yard sack. I would be very disappointed in the wasted investment (but I am sure all the fans are), but considering Skelton is the more talented player it is a bigger waste to not use him than it would be to watch Kolb go out there, suck the life out of the stadium and alienate the fans.

I mean forget the results and the score, just watch the 2 guys play. Skelton is far and away the more talented player. He moves better, he feels pressure better, he fit the ball into tight pockets that we havnt seen Kolb even show the will to ATTEMPT those throws. Rather than fit a pass between the coverage like Skelton does on 3rd and long we see Kolb throw a 3 yard out route... or take a 15 yard sack. Better arm, better mobility, better awareness, better at throwing deep, more clutch.

The ONLY argument for Kolb's talent is his "accuracy" but if Skelton spent half his passing attempts throwing 5 yard out routes that dont advance the chains he would probably be matching Kolb in accuracy too.

 

[Paso Fino]

Does it matter what the investment is? Who cares, just play the better quarterback. Not only does Skelton look like he has far greater potential but he is a flat out better player RIGHT NOW!

They made a mistake, an horrendous mistake trading for Kolb. There is no point in compounding the mistake by tossing away what remains of the season and by extension, Skelton's development just to avoid the embarrassment of acknowledging their failure.

Best case scenario, the Cards shop Kolb in the offseason and dupe some team into giving up a late round pick just so the Cards can get out from under his contract.

The way Vick is playing, maybe we can trade Kolb back to the Eagles for a First. After all, Reid supposedly thought Kolb was great. At least that's what he convinced Whiz.

 

[gmabel830]

I dont recall them doing many end-arounds and screens with Kolb. If anything they've added some flare with Skelton.

And if I am the owner I want the team to wins and fans in the seats. I dont want fans not showing up and booing the team as their QB takes another 15 yard sack. I would be very disappointed in the wasted investment (but I am sure all the fans are), but considering Skelton is the more talented player it is a bigger waste to not use him than it would be to watch Kolb go out there, suck the life out of the stadium and alienate the fans.

I mean forget the results and the score, just watch the 2 guys play. Skelton is far and away the more talented player. He moves better, he feels pressure better, he fit the ball into tight pockets that we havnt seen Kolb even show the will to ATTEMPT those throws. Rather than fit a pass between the coverage like Skelton does on 3rd and long we see Kolb throw a 3 yard out route... or take a 15 yard sack. Better arm, better mobility, better awareness, better at throwing deep, more clutch.

The ONLY argument for Kolb's talent is his "accuracy" but if Skelton spent half his passing attempts throwing 5 yard out routes that dont advance the chains he would probably be matching Kolb in accuracy too.

That's not what I am talking about. A little while back there was a post (I think from K9) that was an excellent summary of our offensive complexity. If I remember correctly, every single receiver has multiple different routes they can run out of every single formation based on their read of the defense -- so the possible # of combinations of routes that can actually be run on any single play is in the hundreds. I read an article on the Niners philosophy this year and they basically took out all of those possible options so the receivers only have one possible route and there is one guy with a hot route option. So, there's really only 2 or 3 possible combination of routes that can be run. I have no idea if there has been any adjustment to our offensive philosophy/complexity with the transition from Kolb to Skelton, but if Kolb was out there needing to make reads from a possibility of hundreds of possible routes that could be run vs. Skelton only needing to determine 2 or 3 possible routes that could be run, that would make a huge difference in how you evaluate the two, wouldn't it? Again, I'm not saying this is the case, but it is definitely something worth asking/considering.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's not what I am talking about. A little while back there was a post (I think from K9) that was an excellent summary of our offensive complexity. If I remember correctly, every single receiver has multiple different routes they can run out of every single formation based on their read of the defense -- so the possible # of combinations of routes that can actually be run on any single play is in the hundreds. I read an article on the Niners philosophy this year and they basically took out all of those possible options so the receivers only have one possible route and there is one guy with a hot route option. So, there's really only 2 or 3 possible combination of routes that can be run. I have no idea if there has been any adjustment to our offensive philosophy/complexity with the transition from Kolb to Skelton, but if Kolb was out there needing to make reads from a possibility of hundreds of possible routes that could be run vs. Skelton only needing to determine 2 or 3 possible routes that could be run, that would make a huge difference in how you evaluate the two, wouldn't it? Again, I'm not saying this is the case, but it is definitely something worth asking/considering.

Maybe, but I doubt its the case. I seem some people defending Kolb in that he doesnt know the offense, but at the same time we have people questioning of Skelton's success is based on a simplified offense... its hard to accept both those lines of reasoning.

Either way, watching the 2 of them play, just the way they handle themselves on the field, the way they throw the ball and the way they move with the ball in their hands, just the basic tenants of being a QB, there is no way a person can justify the idea that Kolb is a better player. Its not even close.

 

[Phrazbit]

The way Vick is playing, maybe we can trade Kolb back to the Eagles for a First. After all, Reid supposedly thought Kolb was great. At least that's what he convinced Whiz.

I think its pretty clear that despite Reid's hype job, he was as low on Kolb as anybody. You dont ship out a "franchise QB" when your current starter is an injury machine and past 30.

I doubt Philly would take Kolb back for free.

 

[82CardsGrad]

CT---it looks like a completely different TEAM with Skelton in there. This TEAM beat up on the Eagles in Philly today---they put a physical beating on them! CARDINAL TOUGH BABY!

Easy Mitch... it's the Iggles. They are certainly not known as one of the tougher teams in the league...

Still, we did what we had to do and Skelton looks to be the better of our QB's... which, is interesting to say the least...

 

[JCSunsfan]

Does it matter what the investment is? Who cares, just play the better quarterback. Not only does Skelton look like he has far greater potential but he is a flat out better player RIGHT NOW!

They made a mistake, an horrendous mistake trading for Kolb. There is no point in compounding the mistake by tossing away what remains of the season and by extension, Skelton's development just to avoid the embarrassment of acknowledging their failure.

Best case scenario, the Cards shop Kolb in the offseason and dupe some team into giving up a late round pick just so the Cards can get out from under his contract.

This is foolish. They traded for what clearly seemed to be the best qb on the market in Kolb after they had a TERRIBLE year at qb. They did what they had to do. Skelton was showing some promise but by no means a lock to develop. Just because Skelton is developing and seems to be overtaking Kolb does not mean the signing of Kolb was a bad idea. Yes, in hindsight, I would never have to buy insurance. But since I cannot see the future, I fork out the money.

I am all for playing the best qb. What Skelton is showing is an ability to play behind a very poor OLine. But Kolb is not evil or even that much of a mistake. The big mistake would be not not make decisions based upon actual play on the field.

 

[Goldfield]

Right now I start Skelton and let Kolb learn the system from the bench. AND he could learn to step up in the pocket from Skelton.

 

[Phrazbit]

This is foolish. They traded for what clearly seemed to be the best qb on the market in Kolb after they had a TERRIBLE year at qb. They did what they had to do. Skelton was showing some promise but by no means a lock to develop. Just because Skelton is developing and seems to be overtaking Kolb does not mean the signing of Kolb was a bad idea. Yes, in hindsight, I would never have to buy insurance. But since I cannot see the future, I fork out the money.

I am all for playing the best qb. What Skelton is showing is an ability to play behind a very poor OLine. But Kolb is not evil or even that much of a mistake.

I dont dislike Kolb the person, I am not calling him evil, I dont know the guy. But I know that I, and others, were rabidly against bringing in Kolb before it ever happened. I think the writing was on the wall from day 1 that this was going to be a very very bad trade. Kolb may have appeared to be the best QB on the market, but it never meant he was actually a good QB. He was the best piece of poop of a crap platter of options and the Cards traded for him like they were getting a stud.

The big mistake would be not not make decisions based upon actual play on the field.

I agree. Which is why it would be a huge mistake to not play Skelton over Kolb. The only argument for Kolb is the "investment" in him. While everything that is happening on the field points towards Skelton being by far their best option, both for the future and the present.

 

[Bobcat]

Winning ugly is better then losing pretty, or in Kolb's case, losing ugly. He's not a franchise QB, but the team wins when he's out there and that's all that matters.

How can you say that he isn't a Franchise QB...??? Just look at all of the Young QB's in the NFL this season. John has only started a total of 6 NFL game in two years. He is 4 and 2. Give him a chance. Let him gain in confidence, not having to constantly looking over his shoulder.

 

[desertdawg]

I still think you have to start Kolb (when healthy), he's watched the last two games like we have. The playcall has definitely been different, Kolb was running the "old" offense. If Kolb sucks then Skelton looks like a viable option, that's all I gather from the last 2 games. Skelton is better in the pocket, but Kolb still has some skills, no contraversy here. If Skelton hadn't thrown those 2 picks, I might feel differently. Just my opinion, Kolb dis-likers might feel differently.

But his contract is being way exaggerated , he doesn't really get payed the big cheddar unless he produces and is kept around for the entirety of his contract...thanks to...Graves. Whiz got the QB he wanted, Graves loaded the contract pretty good, but people want to hand it over to Skelton who had the first good game plan this year.

Granted Skelton does feel comfortable in the pocket, even after the late hit he took in pre-season stepping into a throw. He can find receivers quickly but that's what got him in trouble today, had he pump faked the short throw to Fitz (when Philly scored the pick 6), it would have been money. Skelton can be a pimp in this League, but he learns more on the sideline than your average Joe, I got no problem keeping him there while we play around with Kolb.

I do want to see what Kolb can do with a ballanced rush/pass game plan, he hasn't seen one since early this season. Whiz appears to have woken up or handed over the keys and is concentraing on the game like a Head Coach should. It's Kob's job to lose IMO.

 

[Paso Fino]

I still think you have to start Kolb (when healthy), he's watched the last two games like we have. The playcall has definitely been different, Kolb was running the "old" offense. If Kolb sucks then Skelton looks like a viable option, that's all I gather from the last 2 games. Skelton is better in the pocket, but Kolb still has some skills, no contraversy here. If Skelton hadn't thrown those 2 picks, I might feel differently. Just my opinion, Kolb dis-likers might feel differently.

But his contract is being way exaggerated , he doesn't really get payed the big cheddar unless he produces and is kept around for the entirety of his contract...thanks to...Graves. Whiz got the QB he wanted, Graves loaded the contract pretty good, but people want to hand it over to Skelton who had the first good game plan this year.

Granted Skelton does feel comfortable in the pocket, even after the late hit he took in pre-season stepping into a throw. He can find receivers quickly but that's what got him in trouble today, had he pump faked the short throw to Fitz (when Philly scored the pick 6), it would have been money. Skelton can be a pimp in this League, but he learns more on the sideline than your average Joe, I got no problem keeping him there while we play around with Kolb.

I do want to see what Kolb can do with a ballanced rush/pass game plan, he hasn't seen one since early this season. Whiz appears to have woken up or handed over the keys and is concentraing on the game like a Head Coach should. It's Kob's job to lose IMO.

Your post seems inconsistent. Refresh our recollection about Kolb's contract. If you are correct that he doesn't get big money unless he produces, why would you keep playing him when,according to you, there is an out.

 

[desertdawg]

Your post seems inconsistent. Refresh our recollection about Kolb's contract. If you are correct that he doesn't get big money unless he produces, why would you keep playing him when,according to you, there is an out.

I stated why I'd keep playing Kolb amigo, I think that was the plan all along and Skelton needs more time. Defense won this game, Skelton had a pick 6 to go with his 2 TDs and 2 interceptions. The gameplan worked, if we had ran it more and made a couple field goals folks would really be talking about Cardinal football.

 

[nashman]

Agree desertdawg but people are drinking the Skelton koolaid right now so your gonna get roasted. Skelton has some positives which is why he is on the team but you brought Kolb to be the starter give him the chance not just the first 7 games where the D was giving up TD's left and right and we were trying to outscore the opponent with an offense and playcalling that was terrible. We are going no where so you put Kolb back in when he is 100% not before and you see what happens if he plays terrible you can always bring Skelton back in. But in Whiz's system you don't lose your job by getting injured and shouldn't quite frankly, if you come back and the D is solid like it has definately been for Skeltons 2 starts and your terrible then you have no right to complain if you then get benched.

 

[Chopper0080]

You can never go back if you start Skelton over a healthy Kolb, but you can always go to Skelton if Kolb fails to develop. Honestly, while I have been impressed by the glimpses I have seen from Skelton, I haven't seen enough to take that risk. I start a healthy Kolb.

 

[Duckjake]

If I am the owner, this matters A LOT to me in terms of the long-term employment of my general manager and coach who made the decision that we needed to go out and spend big money in terms of compensation and salary for a young QB.

I'll also say this, I'm not smart enough and don't have the time to dissect every single play, but who's to say that Skelton isn't in there with a dramatically more simplistic gameplan than Kolb? Skelton missed a lot of time earlier this year and got thrown in on short notice, so the offensive gameplan might have been scaled back for him (again, I have no idea if this is the case or not, just throwing it out there as a possibility). There's been a few articles posted about the Niners success used a much more simplified offensive system with Alex Smith. There's A LOT that would go into a decision about which QB you want to develop in the long-term beyond just looking at the wins and losses.

I do think Skelton has looked better than Kolb, but there might be a lot more that the coaches know/see that the average fan does not see.

If this is true, and it may be, our coaches are idiots because the simplified offense is working and making a hero out of a 5th round pick from Fordham while the complex system is making a villain out of our $64 million dollar man and losing games.

I mean, what the heck were they thinking bringing in a guy to a completely foreign system, in a shortened off season, and expecting to win doing it?

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

You can never go back if you start Skelton over a healthy Kolb, but you can always go to Skelton if Kolb fails to develop. Honestly, while I have been impressed by the glimpses I have seen from Skelton, I haven't seen enough to take that risk. I start a healthy Kolb.

Bologna, Skelton has clearly been the best QB on the roster for the past two seasons, He is the one that should be developed. KOLB has been in the league for years and has yet to show a justfiable reason he is anything other than a backup. IF Whis keeps jerking Skelton around he is going to lose him.

Look at the tape and share with us anything Kolb does better than John.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Look at the tape and share with us anything Kolb does better than John.

+1

And it has to be positive.

Cause I can care less that Kolb can run around like a chicken with his head cut off better than Skelton.

 

[THESMEL]

John Skelton is a man. so is Kolb. it is not either or but the fact that we are much improved at the QB position overall. Whiz is earning my confidence back as a HC. even though I think 40 passes is a litttle much for Kolb or Skelton.

I think we ride skelton, He is only getting better. I mean we won with 2 safeties back to back last week! But Skelton learns and moves forward, this team plays harder and better for him? fact is He is undefeated in 2011!

Our only hope is to win out, Stupid Niners still have to face Steelers and Stupid Ravens. ( biggest comeback in history was 3 PI calls to Goal to Goal, 2 were chickenshi pcalls that tthe Ravens and Steelers get away with every pass play)

So Cards beat the Niners twice and Wa lah they are 8 and 5 as we move to 7-6- The niners are not that good. they deserve a collapse. We need to bust them in the mouth, Hard!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'm not bashing Skelton because he has made some nice throws BUT all the breaks have gone the Cards way the last two weeks and the defense has shown up. I'm not sure who I would start. I would tend to stick with what is winning but, and I'm not comparing Kolb to Ben, last year Pitt went , I think, 4-1 with backups playing mainly because of their defense. I think the Cards defense has had as much to do with these last 2 wins as anything. I like both guys for the long haul but I have to admit that Kolb looked as bad as any QB I have seen when I saw him live against Pitt. Maybe Skelton's performance leads to an improved Kolb too. I think Whiz rides out Skelton until he loses then goes back to Kolb. If Skelton loses that is .