Josh Jackson update

[Raze]

Scouting always has the element disappointment since you can't quite measure heart. We knew JJ had questionable smarts coming out of Kansas, but man if we only knew he didn't have it in the chest. You could see the lack of heart with Ball and Fultz, (I'm no seasoned scout but those two were painfully obvious), but JJ's was masked behind his hustle and aggression. Like Iverson, he would pour out his heart for his team during games, but found better things to do after the whistle blew. So he had zero chance of getting better. Truly disheartening.

JJ had all the ability in the world to be a star defender and yet refused to correctly work on it. It's rare to have that kind of twitch agility. I remember season 2 getting excited to see what he'd worked on in the off season, only to be kicked in the stomach with the fact that he did absolutely nothing to improve his game. Nothing. Still bad footwork. Still lazy hands. Still completely relying on his God given athleticism and not realizing that gifts still need to be sharpened. Dull mind, dull heart.

And that's what that draft came down to, who had heart and who didn't. Fox, Mitchell, and Tatum have shown heart by working on aspects of their games that were flawed coming out of college. Many others did not. JJ being one of the worst.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The draft is always guesswork and I don't think anyone who had Jackson rated above Tatum should be embarrassed. What I found absurd on this board was the narrative that the Suns had outsmarted Danny Ainge and hid Jackson from him.

It wasn't absurd. It happened. Not sure Ainge would have drafted Jackson had it all worked out for the Celtics, but Jackson did give Ainge the cold shoulder.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Probably the most wrong I have ever been about a pick. Thought he was the best player in that draft, but that was obviously a long way off.

that entire draft was perplexing. I LOVED Ball and really liked Josh. Wanted no part of Tatum.

only thing I was kinda right on was not understanding the hype around Fultz, although if he never got injured and the worst case of the yips ever, might have been proven wrong there also for all I know.

 

[JCSunsfan]

that entire draft was perplexing. I LOVED Ball and really liked Josh. Wanted no part of Tatum.

only thing I was kinda right on was not understanding the hype around Fultz, although if he never got injured and the worst case of the yips ever, might have been proven wrong there also for all I know.

I remember watching Tatum and thinking how great he looked to me, and how bad I must be at evaluating talent because everyone else liked Ball and JJ more. Tatum had the skills, but there were truly holes in his game at Duke. It taught me to prioritize true skills when evaluating a player.

 

[Mainstreet]

In the end McD outsmarted himself because if we do allow JJ to work out with the Celtics maybe they really like what they see and they decide to draft him and we get "stuck" with either Tatum or Fox.

Nah. It would be like the 2016 draft. The Celtics always seem to draft the best player like when they selected Jaylen Brown over Dragan Bender.

 

[Ronin]

I got excited when Jackson got drafted by the Suns. I bought into the hype. I'm a sucker.

 

[Raze]

I remember watching Tatum and thinking how great he looked to me, and how bad I must be at evaluating talent because everyone else liked Ball and JJ more. Tatum had the skills, but there were truly holes in his game at Duke. It taught me to prioritize true skills when evaluating a player.

Tatum was already a refined offensive player with poor defensive characteristics. It was a tough sell to put him on the floor with Book. However, Tatum looked like he worked on it which brought him up to about average. Had he stayed the same defender that he was at Duke he would have been about as good as Ryan Anderson at D. Which is to say awful. Had he been even an average defender in college he would have gone #1. He was that good of an Offensive prospect. So your assessment was spot on on one end of the floor.

JJ was all hustle. As it turned out the problem was that it was stupid hustle. He rarely would let the game come to him. When he did slow down and would play within himself he was a good player. I still would say that hustle is a real "true skill", but anything mixed with bad heart is broken.

Ball worked on his D too, but his already pathetic confidence got even worse as time wore on. Just like his Free Throw Percentage.

And as it pertains to us drafting Fox, I'm almost positive we had no interest in drafting ANOTHER Kentucky guard. Dumb reason, but that was pretty much the sentiment coming from the FO.

 

[Mainstreet]

I got excited when Jackson got drafted by the Suns. I bought into the hype. I'm a sucker.

It can't be that bad with so much company.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I was really high on Jackson. I still maintain that he has what it takes to be a very good NBA player, but he is just not all there mentally. Perhaps he'll figure it out in a couple of years?

MANY people have the physical tools to be very good NBA players (well maybe not many...).

Look at Doncic....skills are vastly underrated.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Nah. It would be like the 2016 draft. The Celtics always seem to draft the best player like when they selected Jaylen Brown over Dragan Bender.

Maybe they wouldn't have drafted him anyways, but we will never really know. What we do know is that he was literally on his way to work out for the Celtics when we got him to turn around and cancel. If they did have JJ and Tatum very close in their rankings that would likely be enough to the difference maker.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

MANY people have the physical tools to be very good NBA players (well maybe not many...).

Look at Doncic....skills are vastly underrated.

The mind is also very underrated as well. I'll take the guy every time that can dribble, shoot and pass well and consistently make the right decisions over a guy that is maybe mediocre at all of those things, but very athletic.

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe they wouldn't have drafted him anyways, but we will never really know. What we do know is that he was literally on his way to work out for the Celtics when we got him to turn around and cancel. If they did have JJ and Tatum very close in their rankings that would likely be enough to the difference maker.

All I do know for sure is that the Suns were very bad at drafting under McDonough save Booker and Bogdon.

I'm less and less sure who was calling the shots in the 2018 draft. Sarver supposedly wanted the trade for Bridges. Maybe he wanted Ayton as well.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

All I do know for sure is that the Suns were very bad at drafting under McDonough save Booker and Bogdon.

I'm less and less sure who was calling the shots in the 2018 draft. Sarver supposedly wanted the trade for Bridges. Maybe he wanted Ayton as well.

It's not like JJ was considered a reach by pretty much anyone nationally. Bender for instance was considered a reach by about half of the experts. I have little doubt in my mind that the Celtics likely had JJ near Tatum on their board. Maybe not high enough that they would have taken him had he visited and for all we know the visit could have made them passing on him even more likely at that. Clearly there was some level of interest though as they were bringing him out to see him in person.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Should really be called a DownDate, since it's a negative situation.

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[Mainstreet]

It's not like JJ was considered a reach by pretty much anyone nationally. Bender for instance was considered a reach by about half of the experts. I have little doubt in my mind that the Celtics likely had JJ near Tatum on their board. Maybe not high enough that they would have taken him had he visited and for all we know the visit could have made them passing on him even more likely at that. Clearly there was some level of interest though as they were bringing him out to see him in person.

The Celtics dot their i's and cross their t's so they would have worked out Josh Jackson if he were willing.

I wish they had but I doubt the results would be different.

 

[Rab]

Still think JJ can have a productive career if given the right situation. Clearly he has maturity issues and a low basketball IQ. He was also drafted into a franchise, that at the time, was as bad as it gets from top to bottom. Horrible coaching, front office, owner, and a recent history of bad players both on and off the court. JJ on the Spurs might be a good fit if he’d accept a role and not try to be the star.

It sucks. I was high on him and defended him all the way until that last incident with his child.


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[Carolinacacti]

I didn't want Jackson, but I hope he pulls his head out down in the G league.

 

[Bufalay]

I was excited that the suns got him because I kept reading how good he was on this board. I don't watch college bball at all anymore so I watched his youtube highlights and thought he looked impressive. Then I watched Earl Clark's youtube highlights for some perspective and I was less impressed by Jackson. Earl Clark had some nice highlights too.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There is no getting around being a knucklehead. That’s the real issue. Can’t forget character.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I was excited that the suns got him because I kept reading how good he was on this board. I don't watch college bball at all anymore so I watched his youtube highlights and thought he looked impressive. Then I watched Earl Clark's youtube highlights for some perspective and I was less impressed by Jackson. Earl Clark had some nice highlights too.

Jackson was much more than highlights in college. He was a very good player in his year at Kansas. The issue is that he hasn't improved at all since then and he got by with athleticism more at that level. The NBA requires you to use your mind a lot more and that's when it became obvious that he is a very bad decision maker.

 

[95pro]

Sometimes I think Josh Jackson is a taller version of Archie Goodwin. I kept waiting for Archie but it never happened.

I did too on Goodwin. Got a chance to meet him and a quick chat. Was a nice kid, seemed like he had the “it” factor. When He showed flashes and reminded me of Kobe a bit. Oh well.

 

[Mainstreet]

I did too on Goodwin. Got a chance to meet him and a quick chat. Was a nice kid, seemed like he had the “it” factor. When He showed flashes and reminded me of Kobe a bit. Oh well.

It was hard for me to let the Archie in the NBA dream go. I still think about it sometimes.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I was wrong too. And was really happy Tatum went before him. I thought we had Matrix 2.0 for the next decade.

too bad.

 

[Ronin]

I didn’t see this posted. A really nice block.

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[Carolinacacti]

https://gleague.nba.com/games/20191108/TEXMHU/
Box score.