Josiah Turner uh oh not a good rumor

[Russ Smith]

Well, Swafford just lost his best player and any shot he may have had for a state title so I'm sure he doesn't have an axe to grind or anything.

See that's just flat wrong, he didn't lose his best player,he removed his best player from the team. Those are 2 entirely different things, Turner is in North Carolina because Swafford wouldn't let him play anymore.

This isn't a reaction to Turner leaving, this is a reaction to what Turner did after notifying Swafford he was transferring and then changing his mind and saying I want to stay. When Swafford found out he'd skipped his own teams games to go see other games, he realized he made the classic there's no I in team decision.

I like Turner but I can't defend a kid in that situation, you can't say well I thought I was transferring then so I wanted to avoid controversy by showing up at the game. You either support your team or you don't, he didn't.

I get Mao's point but there's a reason Swafford is talking because everyone is asking who kicks off their best player. Who kicks off a McD's caliber player, you can either say nothing and let everyone blame you, or you can make a statement.

Turner and his mom have been talking to the Sac Bee since he was a freshman, now they won't return their calls, that's on them. They were perfectly happy to do stories when things were good, but when things got tough, by THEIR actions, suddenly they want their privacy.

If you read the stories in the Bee and the comments from fans writing in you will see how much he's damaged his reputation in that area. He may not care, I know UA fans don't as long as he plays for UA next year, but he really let alot of people down and that's why the story won't go away. People want him or his mom to offer an explanation.

 

[AzStevenCal]

See that's just flat wrong, he didn't lose his best player,he removed his best player from the team. Those are 2 entirely different things, Turner is in North Carolina because Swafford wouldn't let him play anymore.

This isn't a reaction to Turner leaving, this is a reaction to what Turner did after notifying Swafford he was transferring and then changing his mind and saying I want to stay. When Swafford found out he'd skipped his own teams games to go see other games, he realized he made the classic there's no I in team decision.

I like Turner but I can't defend a kid in that situation, you can't say well I thought I was transferring then so I wanted to avoid controversy by showing up at the game. You either support your team or you don't, he didn't.

I get Mao's point but there's a reason Swafford is talking because everyone is asking who kicks off their best player. Who kicks off a McD's caliber player, you can either say nothing and let everyone blame you, or you can make a statement.

Turner and his mom have been talking to the Sac Bee since he was a freshman, now they won't return their calls, that's on them. They were perfectly happy to do stories when things were good, but when things got tough, by THEIR actions, suddenly they want their privacy.

If you read the stories in the Bee and the comments from fans writing in you will see how much he's damaged his reputation in that area. He may not care, I know UA fans don't as long as he plays for UA next year, but he really let alot of people down and that's why the story won't go away. People want him or his mom to offer an explanation.

Actually, I suspect that's not entirely accurate. I'm sure there are a lot of Wildcat fans that are disappointed by Josiah's involvement in this situation. They will probably choose to look beyond it if/when he makes it to Tucson but he and his mother will be on a short leash as far as fan support goes. And, I doubt that UCLA fans (or Kansas fans etc) would react much differently.

If he does play at of UofA, Miller will have him buying into the team concept or he'll sit on the bench. Also, I don't think Swafford is doing himself any favors keeping this story alive.

Steve

 

[Russ Smith]

Actually, I suspect that's not entirely accurate. I'm sure there are a lot of Wildcat fans that are disappointed by Josiah's involvement in this situation. They will probably choose to look beyond it if/when he makes it to Tucson but he and his mother will be on a short leash as far as fan support goes. And, I doubt that UCLA fans (or Kansas fans etc) would react much differently.

If he does play at of UofA, Miller will have him buying into the team concept or he'll sit on the bench. Also, I don't think Swafford is doing himself any favors keeping this story alive.

Steve

I can't speak for other fans, I was very unhappy with Reeves Nelson as a senior in HS and if you notice, I'm not exactly singing his praises now. I think he's good, when he wants to be, but he takes too many plays off, like the first 10 minutes against Stanford or the entire Oregon game.

Nelson showed issues in HS, got suspended twice, had the situation as a passenger in a car where the driver was DUI etc. He was also young for his class and we've seen his immaturity at UCLA, throwing an elbow at a Stanford player last year during a FT attempt(they were both on the lineup). Some other issues, he's had some heated situations with teammates this year I really didn't like.

I also wasn't happy when UCLA dropped Kendall Williams because nobody ever made it clear why. Some said he wasn't good enough(he CLEARLY is) some said he was a headcase but nobody ever made it clear why.

I'm a huge Turner fan, wanted him at UCLA badly, but the last few weeks he's completely destroyed his image at home and I don't think it's as simple as well the coach is talking and Turner isn't so only one side is out there. Turner and his mom have used the media extremely well over the years, that he's not talking now is a choice they made and unfortunately it's going against them because people assume they don't can't really answer the question in a way that won't make them look in the wrong.

Lots of UCLA fans are sort rooting against him, I'm not, I'm just seeing a really troubling pattern. Takes SAT in morning, skips nightgame, that didn't make much sense but I thought OK one game, maybe he was really mentally exhausted. But since then his actions are a pattern of one bad decision after another putting himself ahead of the team.

I hope he spends the next few months in NC looking in the mirror and realizing he needs to correct some things.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I can't speak for other fans, I was very unhappy with Reeves Nelson as a senior in HS and if you notice, I'm not exactly singing his praises now. I think he's good, when he wants to be, but he takes too many plays off, like the first 10 minutes against Stanford or the entire Oregon game.

Nelson showed issues in HS, got suspended twice, had the situation as a passenger in a car where the driver was DUI etc. He was also young for his class and we've seen his immaturity at UCLA, throwing an elbow at a Stanford player last year during a FT attempt(they were both on the lineup). Some other issues, he's had some heated situations with teammates this year I really didn't like.

I also wasn't happy when UCLA dropped Kendall Williams because nobody ever made it clear why. Some said he wasn't good enough(he CLEARLY is) some said he was a headcase but nobody ever made it clear why.

I'm a huge Turner fan, wanted him at UCLA badly, but the last few weeks he's completely destroyed his image at home and I don't think it's as simple as well the coach is talking and Turner isn't so only one side is out there. Turner and his mom have used the media extremely well over the years, that he's not talking now is a choice they made and unfortunately it's going against them because people assume they don't can't really answer the question in a way that won't make them look in the wrong.

Lots of UCLA fans are sort rooting against him, I'm not, I'm just seeing a really troubling pattern. Takes SAT in morning, skips nightgame, that didn't make much sense but I thought OK one game, maybe he was really mentally exhausted. But since then his actions are a pattern of one bad decision after another putting himself ahead of the team.

I hope he spends the next few months in NC looking in the mirror and realizing he needs to correct some things.

I don't disagree with anything you say here. I think he'll be given a clean slate at UA but he'll be a bit more scrutinized than the typical recruit. Miller has already proven that he makes his players earn their minutes and if Turner really is this "me" oriented he'll not last long under that type of coach.

I'll say it again too, if Turner really is this selfish and his mother really is this much a problem, I really wouldn't be surprised if he never plays a game for Miller. Hopefully though, this is all just a series of events that are being blown out of proportion.

Steve

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I can't speak for other fans, I was very unhappy with Reeves Nelson as a senior in HS and if you notice, I'm not exactly singing his praises now. I think he's good, when he wants to be, but he takes too many plays off, like the first 10 minutes against Stanford or the entire Oregon game.

Nelson showed issues in HS, got suspended twice, had the situation as a passenger in a car where the driver was DUI etc. He was also young for his class and we've seen his immaturity at UCLA, throwing an elbow at a Stanford player last year during a FT attempt(they were both on the lineup). Some other issues, he's had some heated situations with teammates this year I really didn't like.

I also wasn't happy when UCLA dropped Kendall Williams because nobody ever made it clear why. Some said he wasn't good enough(he CLEARLY is) some said he was a headcase but nobody ever made it clear why.

I'm a huge Turner fan, wanted him at UCLA badly, but the last few weeks he's completely destroyed his image at home and I don't think it's as simple as well the coach is talking and Turner isn't so only one side is out there. Turner and his mom have used the media extremely well over the years, that he's not talking now is a choice they made and unfortunately it's going against them because people assume they don't can't really answer the question in a way that won't make them look in the wrong.

Lots of UCLA fans are sort rooting against him, I'm not, I'm just seeing a really troubling pattern. Takes SAT in morning, skips nightgame, that didn't make much sense but I thought OK one game, maybe he was really mentally exhausted. But since then his actions are a pattern of one bad decision after another putting himself ahead of the team.

I hope he spends the next few months in NC looking in the mirror and realizing he needs to correct some things.

The only people still talking about Josiah are his former high school coach and UCLA fans. He'll get a clean slate at UA and from there I could honestly care less what happened when he was in high school if he keeps his head on straight. If he does not Miller will bounce him pretty quick, it's that straightforward.

Can we talk about this weekend's big homestand or something? Is Josh Smith going to play?

 

[Russ Smith]

Can we talk about this weekend's big homestand or something? Is Josh Smith going to play?

Don't know, he apparently didn't have a concussion so he should play but it's really tough to know until they clear him.

Smith really is the key for UCLA, they've been playing some 3 guard recently not necessarily by design and it works because honeycutt guards 4's better than 3's, but I don't expect to see it too much unless UA is playing 3 guards.

The things to watch for from UCLA are in the last few games the guards have been great, it's the frontcourt that's been a question, Smith hurt or in foul trouble, Nelson hot and cold, and the mystifying disappearance of Brendan Lane.

I'm a big Lane fan he plays hard and does all the little things but until Cal he had 6 points total in Pac 10 games and his defense wasn't nearly as good, he just totally lost his confidence. He had 7 against Cal so I thought he's finally over it, and then a bagel against Stanford Sat. He's passing up open shots so much its becoming a 4 on 5 situation and he's a very good shooter. Nelson has 0, 24 and 4 in his last 3 games, his defense is ok on the ball, terrible helpside and he often jogs back.

I will say this, don't be surprised to see some zone, the rumor has been for weeks UCLA is working on it but hasn't shown it because Ben wants to play man. the man looked good against Stanford but they're not a good offensive team, I won't be at all surprised if he does what he did against ASU last year and start man and if it's struggling, go zone for a few minutes.

The key is with Stover coming on a bit UCLA now has 15 fouls to use on Williams, and hopefully Smith can get Williams in some foul trouble. Stover is now starting to keep Smith from getting quick fouls, and because Lane is struggling. Stover is really raw but he absolutely impacts the game blocking and changing shots, but I think Williams will give him fits he's just too raw to guard a guy like that.

This is a huge game for UCLA, right now that win over BYU looks terrific, their only loss, but it's the only good win UCLA has, so a win at UA would put them in a situation where if they finish well, they make the NCAA's. A loss is not a huge loss but a win is a big gain.

After USC I said UCLA had to win the next 4 and 5 of 6 to do anything this year. they won the next 4 but I sure would like to see them get a sweep in Arizona and exceed my expectations.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The only people still talking about Josiah are his former high school coach and UCLA fans. He'll get a clean slate at UA and from there I could honestly care less what happened when he was in high school if he keeps his head on straight. If he does not Miller will bounce him pretty quick, it's that straightforward.

Can we talk about this weekend's big homestand or something? Is Josh Smith going to play?

I mean seriously they aren't even talking about this anymore on the UA board. Not saying you Russ but UCLA fans are just obssessed with Turner it seems. From the reports on BRO, to the stalking QED, to insiders who know the Turner family and aren't surprised by this etc.

Just seems to be total sour grapes. Who cares anymore?

As for this weekend. I am looking for 2 wins obviously and I like our chances. Both teams have enough talent to win in Tucson but bottom line is UA has the best player and plays better defense. I'd like to see two blowouts but ill take two wins anyway we can.

Just gotta keep building that resume.

 

[Russ Smith]

I mean seriously they aren't even talking about this anymore on the UA board. Not saying you Russ but UCLA fans are just obssessed with Turner it seems. From the reports on BRO, to the stalking QED, to insiders who know the Turner family and aren't surprised by this etc.

Just seems to be total sour grapes. Who cares anymore?

As for this weekend. I am looking for 2 wins obviously and I like our chances. Both teams have enough talent to win in Tucson but bottom line is UA has the best player and plays better defense. I'd like to see two blowouts but ill take two wins anyway we can.

Just gotta keep building that resume.

I think it's obvious why UCLA fans are interested, they really wanted Turner and are now wondering is this one of those cases where they "lucked out" in not getting a kid who may have been a problem.

It's not so much about Turner as it is about Drew Gordon, Bobo Morgan and Jerime Anderson who all had their own issues that UCLA dealt with and made UCLA fans somewhat leery of that situation.

It's why Nelson is such a lightning rod on UCLA boards now.

I should add for me personally since Jrue I've been a much bigger skeptic, it kills me to watch how hard he plays in the NBA and how he just quit on UCLA after Howland called him out for not defending Klay Thompson correctly(going under screens) in their loss to WSU his only year at UCLA. He was so different in reality than in the hype that it really made me appreciate kids who play hard and don't have an agenda.

And if you read ESPN there's a blurb on there yesterday that points out New Mexico was 8-1 with Gordon ineligible and is 5-6 since he came eligible. Yes they're in conference now but the blurb said there are rumblings within the program the problem is chemistry and Gordon is part of the problem. Of course UCLA insiders know that Gordon was ran off UCLA because of that very thing, he cursed out Howland on the sideline of a loss last year(Fullerton I think) and the reports were both Honeycutt and Nelson had told Ben if Gordon stays, I leave, he was not well liked by teammates.

So when you see what Turner is doing UCLA fans immediately start to wonder did we dodge another bullet.

It's apparently why UCLA dropped Kendall Williams which looks like a huge mistake, they were concerned he had issues and having just gone through Gordon's freshman year they were not interested in taking on more, ironically now they're teammates.

The knock on Turner was always his mom was hyperinvolved, but this last series of events is something that caught people by surprise, if you don't follow Sac basketball you can't appreciate how big this kid was there and how much of a hit his reputation has taken over this. People blaming the coach are in the minority, most people are familiar with Swafford's past history and they believe he's a consistent guy and if you can't play for him you're probably going to have trouble in college too..

I hope Turner works it out I really like the kid, but it's a concerning trend. We saw a similar thing with nelson his senior year and while at times he's UCLA's best player I can tell you if you read BRO you will find very quickly a lot of UCLA fans are almost hoping he leaves because his effort is very inconsistent and people think he's actually at times more of a negative than a positive.

I found a site yesterday that has plus and minus stats http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/pl...us_minus_avg&chart2=minutes_avg&chart3=fg_pct

That URL is for Nelson but you can change teams and players to see UA kids if you want to. The interesting thing on Nelson is since Kansas, he's had only 2 games where he was a net positive for UCLA, that is they were better with him in the game than with him out, and one of those 2 the positve was just 1point. Cal was the one positive(15 points) that was significant.

Compare that with Derrick Williams who was plus 42 against WSU and you get an idea of how silly it is that ESPN2 is billing the game as Williams vs. Nelson, total mismatch if that's reality.

 

[Russ Smith]

Side note, there are actually a ton of health questions with UCLA right now, Smith might not even be the most injured. Zeke is playing with a torn tendon on a finger on his shooting hand, he seems to have figured out how to play with it but it's a factor.

Honeycutt hurt his shooting elbow against Kansas, said he was taking tylenol for it and last week had an Xray that came back nothing obvious. Since the Xray his 3 point shooting jumped dramatically, either just a blip, or he's now not worried about the elbow.

Smith has the head thing although I'm fairly confident he'll be good to go.

And then Nelson rolled his ankle badly in the last game. He came back but was visibly limping and anybody who's rolled an ankle knows it can be a lot worse a few days later than the day it happens.

Hopefully they're all ok I think Nelson is probably the most likely to be impaired by the injury though it did look like a substantial roll of the ankle when it happened.