Jrue Holiday

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The point isn’t that Jrue would have the same impact as Nash, but that he shouldn’t be eliminated due to his age. If the right guy is available even if he happens to be approaching 30 then the Suns should make the move. Jrue may not be the right guy, but it could potentially be someone that is even older than him.

 

[Chaplin]

The point isn’t that Jrue would have the same impact as Nash, but that he shouldn’t be eliminated due to his age. If the right guy is available even if he happens to be approaching 30 then the Suns should make the move. Jrue may not be the right guy, but it could potentially be someone that is even older than him.

If it was indeed Kyrie Irving and he happened to be 27 or 28, I'd say ok, because he's that kind of talent. We need transcendent players to move forward. We have a solid SF and potentially a second strong SF if JJ develops. We have a glut of PFs, and while I don't like Chriss and am cautiously optimistic about Bender, I'm not sure the Suns will concentrate on that position. That leaves C and PG as our main positions of need.

It is generally agreed upon that teams need 3 "stars" to compete for a championship. It's arguable about whether Warren can be one of those stars--I don't think he should be--but that leaves both that C and PG positions as needing players that could be All-Star caliber. Jrue Holiday is not that.

So say we get Holiday. What's next? We need to absolutely get a stud C because with Jrue, Booker wouldn't have a complimentary star to work with. IF we don't draft a star C like Ayton? Then we are just treading water and doing the same thing we've been doing. If you truly believe a team needs 3 stars, signing Jrue Holiday at age 27 is not the way to go. Granted, drafting a Trae Young or other young PG doesn't give us another star either, but at least the potential is there. Holiday is what he is, an injury prone good, but not great, player. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Hoop Head]

Fine, I'm wrong you're all right, we should by all means get a point guard who's 27 or older. Because, you know, Jrue Holiday and Steve Nash are infinitely comparable.

I mean, you're comparing Shawn Marion to Alex Len, Bender to Casey Jacobson and Barbosa to Josh Jackson. Not to mention Jay Triano to Mike D'Antoni.

I'm comparing their ages and experience, unless otherwise state like with Chriss and Stoudemire as well as Booker and Joe Johnson. I thought that was clear.

I'm not for going after Holiday but I'm ok with the team going after someone his age if they're a good fit. If the Suns want to pay a PG $25 million a year they should take aim at Chris Paul this summer instead of Holiday.

 

[Hoop Head]

How much will Derrick Rose get in free agency this summer? He signed for the minimum this year with Cleveland, which is low but he couldn't have had that many offers for more money if that's the deal he went with. How much would it cost to bring him in? Would $10 million a year do it? I know injuries have changed his game but he's got to be cheaper than Holiday and definitely has the potential to be better, if he can stay healthy and focused. Our training staff might appeal to him.

 

[Chaplin]

How much will Derrick Rose get in free agency this summer? He signed for the minimum this year with Cleveland, which is low but he couldn't have had that many offers for more money if that's the deal he went with. How much would it cost to bring him in? Would $10 million a year do it? I know injuries have changed his game but he's got to be cheaper than Holiday and definitely has the potential to be better, if he can stay healthy and focused. Our training staff might appeal to him.

I'm not sure he has anything left. I'd rather pick up a young PG that hasn't had an opportunity. Mike James is probably a better option than Rose for this roster at this time.

 

[SirStefan32]

Chap, I don't think anyone is saying we should sign a 30 year old point guard. We are just saying that it's OK to have an older player on the roster.

Also, nobody is talking about competing for a championship. We are all aware that they need more good players. At best they have two stars, and more likely one star and one solid player, but things are done in steps. Let's make playoffs first, then let's get to conference finals, and then we can talk about seriously competing for a championship.

 

[Chaplin]

Chap, I don't think anyone is saying we should sign a 30 year old point guard. We are just saying that it's OK to have an older player on the roster.

Also, nobody is talking about competing for a championship. We are all aware that they need more good players. At best they have two stars, and more likely one star and one solid player, but things are done in steps. Let's make playoffs first, then let's get to conference finals, and then we can talk about seriously competing for a championship.

I understand what you're saying, I just don't think the stopgap philosophy is valid when rebuilding. Because that's exactly what a Jrue Holiday would be.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I understand what you're saying, I just don't think the stopgap philosophy is valid when rebuilding. Because that's exactly what a Jrue Holiday would be.

If a “stop gap” type player is enough to help the team take the next step than I am all for it. I would prefer it happen in the off-season after we have locked up a high pick this year. However, I won’t complain if it happens around the trade deadline this year either.

 

[SirStefan32]

I understand what you're saying, I just don't think the stopgap philosophy is valid when rebuilding. Because that's exactly what a Jrue Holiday would be.

And I *THINK* I agree with that. I think it's OK to take some stopgap measures. If he were a good defender, and a great shooter on a reasonable short-term contract, I'd tend to be in favor of trading for him, but Holiday's contract is awful and long, and he is not good enough a player to justify that.

 

[SirStefan32]

If a “stop gap” type player is enough to help the team take the next step than I am all for it. I would prefer it happen in the off-season after we have locked up a high pick this year. However, I won’t complain if it happens around the trade deadline this year either.

The problem is that he makes an average of $26M/year over the next four years. When someone is under contract for four years after the current year and makes enought money to cover a quarter of the salary cap, it's no longer a stopgap measure, but a long-term commitment.

 

[Chaplin]

And I *THINK* I agree with that. I think it's OK to take some stopgap measures. If he were a good defender, and a great shooter on a reasonable short-term contract, I'd tend to be in favor of trading for him, but Holiday's contract is awful and long, and he is not good enough a player to justify that.

Exactly. The question is, IF he was on a short-term contract, would he NOT ONLY help us get to the playoffs but be a significant help in advancing the careers of the kids? Because that's all he would be signed for.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The problem is that he makes an average of $26M/year over the next four years. When someone is under contract for four years after the current year and makes enought money to cover a quarter of the salary cap, it's no longer a stopgap measure, but a long-term commitment.

Again not specifically vying for Jrue Holiday. Just saying that a stop gap type player wouldn’t be the worst thing for this team right now or at least as soon as next season.

 

[Chaplin]

Again not specifically vying for Jrue Holiday. Just saying that a stop gap type player wouldn’t be the worst thing for this team right now or at least as soon as next season.

You mean like Tyson Chandler?

 

[SirStefan32]

You mean like Tyson Chandler?

If there were a 30-something who was as good of a point guard as Chandler is a Center, sure. Suns have no young prospects at that position, so I don't see a problem. Obviously, I'd prefer someone a bit younger than Chandler, but I don't see what would be so terrible if they traded for someone in their thirties on a contract that has fewer than three years left.

 

[Chaplin]

If there were a 30-something who was as good of a point guard as Chandler is a Center, sure. Suns have no young prospects at that position, so I don't see a problem. Obviously, I'd prefer someone a bit younger than Chandler, but I don't see what would be so terrible if they traded for someone in their thirties on a contract that has fewer than three years left.

But what would be the point? Is it to get more wins? Because that certainly wouldn't sit right with pro-tankers. What is the point of getting, let's say an "average" player, who is older than our rebuild needs?

If it's to help the young guys grow and mature, isn't a signing more like Jared Dudley, who doesn't play or contribute to wins/losses, just as good?

 

[Phrazbit]

But what would be the point? Is it to get more wins? Because that certainly wouldn't sit right with pro-tankers. What is the point of getting, let's say an "average" player, who is older than our rebuild needs?

If it's to help the young guys grow and mature, isn't a signing more like Jared Dudley, who doesn't play or contribute to wins/losses, just as good?

Isn't this a discussion about next year? If we can fill a hole with a good player at a reasonable price who could contribute for 3+ years, why wouldn't we?

As I said, I don't think Jrue is that guy, but I wouldn't close the door on anyone under 30 if they fill a real need.

 

[SirStefan32]

But what would be the point? Is it to get more wins? Because that certainly wouldn't sit right with pro-tankers. What is the point of getting, let's say an "average" player, who is older than our rebuild needs?

If it's to help the young guys grow and mature, isn't a signing more like Jared Dudley, who doesn't play or contribute to wins/losses, just as good?

So, I look at rebuilding as a sum of several different parts. First you need to get some extra picks, then you accumulate some young talent, then you need that talent to develop, and then you start adding other pieces. A lot of these steps have some overlap, and we can argue where we are right now, but the point is that you can't just keep tanking and building a team that consists of 18-23 year old players. I think for Booker, Warren, Len (if he is here), Bender, Chriss, Jackson, and new rookies next year to properly develop, they should have an actual point guard to play with. It may get them to playoffs, it may not. It may not be the ultimate answer to the PG position, but it is a logical step in the rebuilding process. I want to see how good Booker and Warren are with a real point guard. I want to see if Chriss, Bender, and Jackson do better with a real point guard.

 

[Chaplin]

So, I look at rebuilding as a sum of several different parts. First you need to get some extra picks, then you accumulate some young talent, then you need that talent to develop, and then you start adding other pieces. A lot of these steps have some overlap, and we can argue where we are right now, but the point is that you can't just keep tanking and building a team that consists of 18-23 year old players. I think for Booker, Warren, Len (if he is here), Bender, Chriss, Jackson, and new rookies next year to properly develop, they should have an actual point guard to play with. It may get them to playoffs, it may not. It may not be the ultimate answer to the PG position, but it is a logical step in the rebuilding process. I want to see how good Booker and Warren are with a real point guard. I want to see if Chriss, Bender, and Jackson do better with a real point guard.

I guess then the real question here is what is a "real PG"? Does it have to be an uber-expensive Jrue Holiday or can it be someone who like TJ McConnell, who is by definition a "real" PG, but younger and cheaper?

 

[SirStefan32]

I guess then the real question here is what is a "real PG"? Does it have to be an uber-expensive Jrue Holiday or can it be someone who like TJ McConnell, who is by definition a "real" PG, but younger and cheaper?

Well, cost is a factor. To me, the biggest deal-breaker with Holiday is the length of his contract. As to the point guard, Suns just need someone who can run the offense to take some pressure off of Booker. If they can shoot and defend in addition to being able to make plays, that would be ideal. I cannot speak to McConnell specifically as I haven't seen much of him. From what little I've seen of him, he doesn't strike me as a shooter or a defender, but he does appear to be able to run an offense.