Jurecki's Observations - Super Bowl Week

[kerouac9]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: KVB

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
...instead of taking Wendell Bryant the Cards could have had:


Shockey, Jeremy TE 6-5 255 Miami (Fla.)
Haynesworth, Albert DT 6-6
Buchanon, Phillip CB 5-10 186 Miami (Fla.)
Duckett, T.J. RB 6-0 254 Michigan State
Lelie, Ashley WR 6-3 197 Hawaii
Walker, Javon WR 6-4 210 Florida State
Thomas, Bryan DE 6-4 266 Alabama-Birmingham
Reed, Edward FS 5-11 201 Miami (Fla.)
Sheppard, Lito CB 5-10 194 Florida
St. Louis Thomas, Robert OLB 6-0 229 UCLA

Of that list, the players that I'd rather have are Haynesworth (who we should have taken, but there were alleged character issues that obviously caused Mac to downgrade him), and Edward Reed. Shockey, maybe, but I'm not really a big fan of the guy. Same with Duckett. Passing on Lelie and Walker don't really outrage me (especially Lelie, who was a big reach if you ask me). Sheppard hasn't shown that he can handle the starting job in Philly, and Robert Thomas hasn't been outstanding for the Rams. Bryan Thomas has underachieved so much in New York that Shaun Ellis took his job.

This isn't really the damning list that KVB's was. Thanks for sharing, though.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: KVB

Originally posted by kerouac9
Of that list, the players that I'd rather have are Haynesworth (who we should have taken, but there were alleged character issues that obviously caused Mac to downgrade him), and Edward Reed. Shockey, maybe, but I'm not really a big fan of the guy. Same with Duckett. Passing on Lelie and Walker don't really outrage me (especially Lelie, who was a big reach if you ask me). Sheppard hasn't shown that he can handle the starting job in Philly, and Robert Thomas hasn't been outstanding for the Rams. Bryan Thomas has underachieved so much in New York that Shaun Ellis took his job.

This isn't really the damning list that KVB's was. Thanks for sharing, though.

Wasnt trying to be daming. Of the guys on that list I would have seleced Haynesworth. (one of the reasons Tennesse's run defense is soo good, Reed, Shockey, and Walker I would have liked as well. Duckett can be good i think but he splits too many carries. Atl. wont know unless they hand him the rock.

 

[Krangodnzr]

What about Napoleon Harris? I would sure love having an athletic ILB like him.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Jim Omohundro
I think that writing KVB off this early is unfair. My question is this. Injury aside, in your mind, why does Wendell get a free pass due to perceived bad coaching when KVB is a bust already? After all, they have been exposed to the same coaching.

I guess you're misunderstanding (intentionally or not) my argument about Wendell Bryant. There are many reasons that I see for the retardation of Bryant's development:

(1) Inferior Technical Coaching
(2) Inability to adjust/acclimate to one position on the field (frequent switching between DE/DT)
(3) Poor/inadequate physical conditioning
(4) Nagging injury (high ankle sprain - 2003 only)

All right, of those factors, KVB is only subject to one. Of those factors, Bryant absolutely has no one to blame but himself for one. That being said, Bryant has really only had one full year with the Cards (casting aside his rookie season as a waste due to contract disagreements). Bryant also was a standout player in college, a consensus all-American and led his team in sacks and stops for loss.

On the other hand, KVB has been in the league for seasons, and spent almost two full seasons on injured reserve due to on-field injuries (how these are "unrelated" escapes me). He was drafted at top of the second round after notching 12 sacks in his career at Nebraska (!). His career production has just about been matched by undrafted free agent Fred Wakefield. He lacks closing speed, strength, and flexibility out of the pass-rushing defensive end position. I think that the onus is on his defenders to explain the value of KVB in his draft position based on the players that were still available at the time.

 

[azdad1978]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
What about Napoleon Harris? I would sure love having an athletic ILB like him.

Harris is a Stud ILB. I remember him in Northwestern when he played DE but unselfishly moved to OLB since they are depleted in talent there. Thats the reason why Biekert is playing with the Viking cause this guy can play MLB.

 

[Jim O]

One of the biggest bummers about KVB's knee injury was that it forced Calvin Pace into being an every down player. If KVB was in there and Pace rushed the passer on 3rd downs or obvious passing situations, I think that the sack total for Pace would be significantly higher.

Pace had 14 QB hurries which tells us that he was not that far away from having a high sack total. I would bet that some of those would have been sacks if he was a 3rd down rusher similar to T. Suggs of Baltimore.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
What about Napoleon Harris? I would sure love having an athletic ILB like him.

I just went back and looked at the 2002 draft with Bryant and I would now love to have Andra Davis MLB-Cleveland. Taken in the 5th round, he had 138 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 ff.

Nice steal Cleveland!

 

[cardsunsfan]

I thought KVB looked really good the first couple games he played for the Cadinals then after that he kind of faded away...

 

[Jim O]

Originally posted by kerouac9
On the other hand, KVB has been in the league for seasons, and spent almost two full seasons on injured reserve due to on-field injuries (how these are "unrelated" escapes me).

When I said unrelated, I was meaning that the injury was not to the same leg. I said this to imply that it is not a re-injury rather a completely different one.

Hopefully that clears it up.

 

[Jim O]

Getting back to Jurecki's first point, I think that the defense is certainly better with a healthy KVB and Starks...mainly from a depth standpoint. I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Jim Omohundro
One of the biggest bummers about KVB's knee injury was that it forced Calvin Pace into being an every down player. If KVB was in there and Pace rushed the passer on 3rd downs or obvious passing situations, I think that the sack total for Pace would be significantly higher.

Pace had 14 QB hurries which tells us that he was not that far away from having a high sack total. I would bet that some of those would have been sacks if he was a 3rd down rusher similar to T. Suggs of Baltimore.

I agree with that but there are also other factors with Pace as well: Coaching, playing out of position, etc. I hope KVB comes back and is a monster, but e hasnt shown much thus far. Hopefully Green and his staff can get more out of all the DL. Someone has too!

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Jim Omohundro
Getting back to Jurecki's first point, I think that the defense is certainly better with a healthy KVB and Starks...mainly from a depth standpoint. I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise.

I can't argue that, from a depth standpoint, the defense would be improved. But, I think that it's pretty clear from Jurecki's statement that isn't what he's talking about. "Getting better overnight" hardly is equivalent to "some of the depth concerns on defensive line and in the secondary might be helped with the expected return of second-round disappointment Kyle Vanden Bosch and highly-paid yet underachieving Duane Starks."

Again, I assert that either Wakefield or Vanden Bosch will be on the roster come September. And Green has three seasons worth of film on Wakefield.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by kerouac9
. And Green has three seasons worth of film on Wakefield.

And thats a good thing? That may just give the edge to KVB to be on the roster!

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
And thats a good thing? That may just give the edge to KVB to be on the roster!

You may be right. How's the saying go? "The devil you know..."?

 

[cardsunsfan]

is in the details?

 

[spanky1]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I can't argue that, from a depth standpoint, the defense would be improved. But, I think that it's pretty clear from Jurecki's statement that isn't what he's talking about. "Getting better overnight" hardly is equivalent to "some of the depth concerns on defensive line and in the secondary might be helped with the expected return of second-round disappointment Kyle Vanden Bosch and highly-paid yet underachieving Duane Starks."

Again, I assert that either Wakefield or Vanden Bosch will be on the roster come September. And Green has three seasons worth of film on Wakefield.

If we sign a FA DE, both Wakefield and KVB will be gone. Dennis Johnson finally turns heads next year and Pace comes on strong. King is available as the 4th DE

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Every team needs overachievers. They're perfect as backups and special-teams players. I think a good coaching staff could use guys like Wakefield and KVB's work ethic and should use it to keep other lienmen ahead of them on the depth chart motivated.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by spanky1
If we sign a FA DE, both Wakefield and KVB will be gone. Dennis Johnson finally turns heads next year and Pace comes on strong. King is available as the 4th DE

When I made my breakdown, I only predicted one ouster at Defensive End. I consider King as more effective at DT than DE (especially with Bell being a free agent after 2004), but he can be moved around. I don't see the Cards drafting a DE unless they're totally shut out of free agency. Gaining one DE would leave the roster of DEs as:

Calvin Pace
Dennis Johnson
Kenny King
FA
Wakefield/KVB

That's about how many DEs we carried last season, and I can't see us carrying more or less. I agree with Mao that we need overachievers, I just want them stuck on special teams and trying hard in practices. I want talented players starting.

 

[Onery Bird]

I think the jury is still out on KVB, and to not give this guy the benefit of the doubt is nuts. As a rookie he looked pretty good before he torn his ACL. Rehabbing from an ACL for nine months makes it tough to play up to your potential in the next season. In truth, KVB probably shouldn't have started that second season after coming off his ACL injury. Last year was again lost due to another ACL on his other knee. I really think that the best of KVB won't be seen for another year. I don't ever think that he'll be a Pro Bowl DE, but he could be a 5-7 sack man, who plays the run very well, in short an above average DE. We've just got to be a little patient with him, and I don't think we'll be sorry.

Oh, and another thing, for those that "blame" KVB for being injury prone, do you also blame Anquan Boldin for tearing his ACL during his junior year in college?

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I say get rid of all of Macs projects, M Stone, KVB, W Bryant and the rest of the guys who really suck, that were picked way too high and failed. I'm so happy there is a coach that will eveluate a player based on what he does on the field, not character. I hope Green cuts all there asses.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by DevonCardsFan
I say get rid of all of Macs projects, M Stone, KVB, W Bryant and the rest of the guys who really suck, that were picked way too high and failed. I'm so happy there is a coach that will eveluate a player based on what he does on the field, not character. I hope Green cuts all there asses.

I think Bryant and KVB should get one more chance. KVB can get cut with little consequence after training camp. Bryant has been bungled worse than any other draft pick I can think of. Let's give the new staff to stick him at ONE position and try to get a fire lit under his ass. Green said he can be a Pro Bowler, he won't cut him. If Bryant is worthless this year, then he can be cut next and clear space instead of causing a hit like he would this year.

 

[AzCards21]

I'm amazed K9 hasn't been given a job offer at Cards Central. Obviously the most knowledgable of all posters, gm's, coaches, etc.

How's that career with your a** on the line going anyway? Call out KVB and Bryant all you want now. But if it was up to you to choose I bet they both start next season.

There is a fine line between a fan that has an opinion and a fan that has no business in the NFL claiming superiority. You can't tell me you thought KVB would fail this year. A healthy knee could have made a huge difference.

Would've could've is a moot point now. But don't even pretend you know how his season could have gone for KVB.