Just a what if on Palmer

[Russ Smith]

A few years back when debating what QB we should get I was the one saying thought Carson was a better option than Kolb but at the time he retired and it appeared he wasn't really available in a deal.

Just imagine if we had traded for him instead of Kolb? I think it's reasonable to assume those next few years would have been better, how much better I don't know, enough to save Whisenhunt I don't know.

But it is amazing how such decisions have such big impact, and at the time Kolb was a perfectly reasonable decision to make based on what was available. The cards didn't turn down Palmer to get Kolb.

He's not a great QB by any stretch but compared to what we got from Kolb and Skelton and Lindley a huge upgrade.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

It's just nice to have a QB that doesn't suck!!! I would say CP is above 'above average' to good in my book...

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah... It's an interesting thought experiment, but considering what the Raiders ended up giving up for Palmer, and the contract upgrade that Palmer got in the wake of that deal, it's kind of a non-starter.

I think that Whisenhunt would still be here if Palmer were here--he's just a more solid, more professional, more finished quarterback. But the Palmer we traded for this year is/was not the Palmer that was on the market three years ago.

 

[earthsci]

The only thing that I question about this is would Palmer even be healthy, and if he was would he be skittish? Whiz was stubborn about tackles blocking on an island. Arians started giving them help after the first few games.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I never saw anything that would have me believe Whiz would have ever fixed or coached up the offensive line to point where any QB would have any success.

If we never had Whiz, would Warner have stuck around longer, and Boldin for that matter ?

If we keep Whiz does that mean we keep Rod Graves ? If so, no thank you.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I wanted Palmer for our QB to replace Warner, but I think Whiz's team would have ruined him. Glad he is here on a rebuilt team with Arians at the helm.

 

[cardncubfan]

I wanted Palmer for our QB to replace Warner, but I think Whiz's team would have ruined him. Glad he is here on a rebuilt team with Arians at the helm.

I completely agree with this. What if we had Arians when Warner was still here in '09? Would Warner have been as good, better, or worse?

 

[BigRedRage]

A few years back when debating what QB we should get I was the one saying thought Carson was a better option than Kolb but at the time he retired and it appeared he wasn't really available in a deal.

Just imagine if we had traded for him instead of Kolb? I think it's reasonable to assume those next few years would have been better, how much better I don't know, enough to save Whisenhunt I don't know.

But it is amazing how such decisions have such big impact, and at the time Kolb was a perfectly reasonable decision to make based on what was available. The cards didn't turn down Palmer to get Kolb.

He's not a great QB by any stretch but compared to what we got from Kolb and Skelton and Lindley a huge upgrade.

I wanted him as well but he was not available until mid year and we couldnt wait until mid year.

I also preferred orton over kolb, not sure if he ever did anything but I thought he was a better QB. Never was sold on kolb really.

 

[Totally_Red]

I wanted Palmer for our QB to replace Warner, but I think Whiz's team would have ruined him. Glad he is here on a rebuilt team with Arians at the helm.

Agree!

From what I've seen of B.A.'s complex offense, whoever the Cardinals eventually select as the QBOTF is going to require at least a season under C.P. before assuming the reigns IMO.

 

[cardpa]

Palmer only needs to avg 221 yds passing in the next two games to surpass his career high.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah... It's an interesting thought experiment, but considering what the Raiders ended up giving up for Palmer, and the contract upgrade that Palmer got in the wake of that deal, it's kind of a non-starter.

I think that Whisenhunt would still be here if Palmer were here--he's just a more solid, more professional, more finished quarterback. But the Palmer we traded for this year is/was not the Palmer that was on the market three years ago.

True but I don't know if that would have happened if Palmer had been truly available when we traded for Kolb. Remember he was threatening to retire and the Bengals were refusing to cave in and trade him. If they'd just been willing to trade him I kind of doubt the market would have been as outrageous for him as Oakland wound up paying him?

But yes the contract was certainly more than we'd have wanted to take on.

I'm not convinced the OL is actually that much better for those saying it is, I think Palmer has simply learned to work with this OL, he's making them look better where the prior QB's made them look worse.

I do think Arians has done a terrific job of utilizing personnel

 

[kerouac9]

True but I don't know if that would have happened if Palmer had been truly available when we traded for Kolb. Remember he was threatening to retire and the Bengals were refusing to cave in and trade him. If they'd just been willing to trade him I kind of doubt the market would have been as outrageous for him as Oakland wound up paying him?

But yes the contract was certainly more than we'd have wanted to take on.

I'm not convinced the OL is actually that much better for those saying it is, I think Palmer has simply learned to work with this OL, he's making them look better where the prior QB's made them look worse.

I do think Arians has done a terrific job of utilizing personnel

I don't know. I mean, is the market price lower if it's clear that someone's available? Oakland clearly overpaid to his value as a football player, but if Palmer is on the open market in March, I bet he merits more than Kolb. Maybe.

I agree with you on the OL. Kolb made the OL look worse than it was, and poor QB play hindered the running game. Sowell, to me, is clearly less talented than Brown, and probably less productive. But--as many were saying the last two seasons--positive contributions from the quarterback position make a ton of difference.

Fun fact: this could be the second year of Palmer's career that he'll win 10 games as a starter and fail to make the playoffs. That happened for him in 2009 with the Bengals.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

My USC sources tell me Palmer would never have accepted a trade to Wiz led Cardinals becauseof the percived "treatment" of close friend Matt Leinart. Could be all heresay though just something to chew on as I was on this band wagon pre Kolb. Never ever would have given up what Oakland did though.....

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't know. I mean, is the market price lower if it's clear that someone's available? Oakland clearly overpaid to his value as a football player, but if Palmer is on the open market in March, I bet he merits more than Kolb. Maybe.

I agree with you on the OL. Kolb made the OL look worse than it was, and poor QB play hindered the running game. Sowell, to me, is clearly less talented than Brown, and probably less productive. But--as many were saying the last two seasons--positive contributions from the quarterback position make a ton of difference.

Fun fact: this could be the second year of Palmer's career that he'll win 10 games as a starter and fail to make the playoffs. That happened for him in 2009 with the Bengals.

I'm guessing obviously but I suspect the reason the Raiders overpaid that badly for him is by that point they were desperate for a better QB, and were convinced the Bengals weren't going to cave in and just give Palmer away because they wanted to send a message to Palmer. So the Raiders said we HAVE to get a QB, let's just offer them the moon. I had to google it but they gave up a 1 and a 2 that could have been a 1 if the Raiders made the conference finals.

They didn't give that up because they were competing for Palmer, by then everyone else had already gotten their QB, they did that because they figured the Bengals are doing this on principle, the only way they will trade him now is if we overpay.

But I guess the counter is if the Raiders were willing to overpay then, they would have overpaid earlier if he'd been available then. They might have been the couple that was so determined to get the house they were going to overpay for it knowing they were overpaying.

I guess in a sense the Bengals got exactly what they wanted, he had to sit, they got draft picks, and Palmer wasted a couple of years of his career in Oakland.

 

[Russ Smith]

My USC sources tell me Palmer would never have accepted a trade to Wiz led Cardinals becauseof the percived "treatment" of close friend Matt Leinart. Could be all heresay though just something to chew on as I was on this band wagon pre Kolb. Never ever would have given up what Oakland did though.....

I had to look it up but what they gave up to get him was CB Dre Kirkpatrick, and Giovani Bernard.

So a CB that so far hasn't been that good, and a RB who looks like he's going to be pretty good(but not better than Ellington who was picked many rounds later).

So they got some talent for a guy who wasn't going to play for them again but in hindsight the Raiders didn't give up a ton.

But then they might have done better with those picks themselves.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I wanted Palmer for our QB to replace Warner, but I think Whiz's team would have ruined him. Glad he is here on a rebuilt team with Arians at the helm.

+1

Don't think it would have worked so well with the last coaching staff

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't know. I mean, is the market price lower if it's clear that someone's available? Oakland clearly overpaid to his value as a football player, but if Palmer is on the open market in March, I bet he merits more than Kolb. Maybe.

I agree with you on the OL. Kolb made the OL look worse than it was, and poor QB play hindered the running game. Sowell, to me, is clearly less talented than Brown, and probably less productive. But--as many were saying the last two seasons--positive contributions from the quarterback position make a ton of difference.

Fun fact: this could be the second year of Palmer's career that he'll win 10 games as a starter and fail to make the playoffs. That happened for him in 2009 with the Bengals.

I thought that Bengals team made the playoffs in 2009. I remember having people over the day before the Packers and watching them lose...at home I think.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I thought that Bengals team made the playoffs in 2009. I remember having people over the day before the Packers and watching them lose...at home I think.

Yep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Cincinnati_Bengals_season#AFC_Wild_Card_Game:_vs._New_York_Jets

 

[Russ Smith]

THe reason the Raiders overpaid that badly for him was that Campbell got hurt and they realized they were dead without him so I suppose the question is if they had made the deal earlier not knowing Campbell would get hurt, would they have overpaid that much.

Impossible to answer, I am glad we have him, and they weren't going to trade him when we made the Kolb deal that was obvious, so he wasn't "really" available then.

I suppose the other argument is what if we'd just taken Dalton, red hair and all he's been pretty good.

 

[kerouac9]

I thought that Bengals team made the playoffs in 2009. I remember having people over the day before the Packers and watching them lose...at home I think.

You're right. Pro Football Reference (aka Football Crack) doesn't have an asterisk next to that season. Weird.

 

[earthsci]

You're right. Pro Football Reference (aka Football Crack) doesn't have an asterisk next to that season. Weird.

I'm pretty sure that the asterisks indicate Pro Bowl seasons.

 

[Cards_Campos]

I understand why you say this but I think Palmer would be retired or gone by now. The shots Kolb took from our porous OL would have killed Palmer. Remember last year against the Rams when they had like 2497 sacks against us. Palmer would have been probably broken in a few pieces.
I think if we had Arians and Warner we win and make a few Super Bowls. 1...he is a players coach but commands respect. I think he would have meshed well with Boldin! 2) Warner and him would have a world of fun...because I think Arians loves a smart QB who wants to learn...and contribute his thoughts. If Palmer can have a year like this imagine Warner who is arguably 3 times the better passer than Palmer when it comes to sheer accuracy. And was their ever a better QB in the NFL when it came to quick release and decision making?
Whizenhunt who I hated but did get us to the playoffs...would have ruined this offense. Arians uses his RB's to chip and then release....Whiz never did that.
WHat is crazy is that we get 2 first round draft picks this year. the first one is Cooper who never played. And probably is worth a win or 2 when you base it on how protection broke down and Palmer in the early games threw dumb passes because he didn't want to get hit. I think we beat the Rams in the first game also because Cooper would have let us run a little better and run more clock off when we led by 11 in the 4th qtr. I also think we beat the Eagles with Cooper. Since that was 1 of the few games where pressure hurt us the most.

 

[Duckjake]

I understand why you say this but I think Palmer would be retired or gone by now. The shots Kolb took from our porous OL would have killed Palmer. Remember last year against the Rams when they had like 2497 sacks against us. Palmer would have been probably broken in a few pieces.
I think if we had Arians and Warner we win and make a few Super Bowls. 1...he is a players coach but commands respect. I think he would have meshed well with Boldin! 2) Warner and him would have a world of fun...because I think Arians loves a smart QB who wants to learn...and contribute his thoughts. If Palmer can have a year like this imagine Warner who is arguably 3 times the better passer than Palmer when it comes to sheer accuracy. And was their ever a better QB in the NFL when it came to quick release and decision making?
Whizenhunt who I hated but did get us to the playoffs...would have ruined this offense. Arians uses his RB's to chip and then release....Whiz never did that.
WHat is crazy is that we get 2 first round draft picks this year. the first one is Cooper who never played. And probably is worth a win or 2 when you base it on how protection broke down and Palmer in the early games threw dumb passes because he didn't want to get hit. I think we beat the Rams in the first game also because Cooper would have let us run a little better and run more clock off when we led by 11 in the 4th qtr. I also think we beat the Eagles with Cooper. Since that was 1 of the few games where pressure hurt us the most.

You are probably correct but Kolb ran into a lot of those sacks that Palmer would have likely avoided by throwing the ball away.

Of course then we'd have probably had more interceptions.

But who knows? It was a crazy 43 game stretch from the bye week in 2010. 3-15, 11-2 then 1-11.

 

[Jim Otis]

Time and circumstances have brought everyone to where they are at this moment , I'm just thankful they have brought Carson -- BASK -- Dansby -- Duke -- ect. , ect. to our Cardinal Team .

 

[john h]

A few years back when debating what QB we should get I was the one saying thought Carson was a better option than Kolb but at the time he retired and it appeared he wasn't really available in a deal.

Just imagine if we had traded for him instead of Kolb? I think it's reasonable to assume those next few years would have been better, how much better I don't know, enough to save Whisenhunt I don't know.

But it is amazing how such decisions have such big impact, and at the time Kolb was a perfectly reasonable decision to make based on what was available. The cards didn't turn down Palmer to get Kolb.

He's not a great QB by any stretch but compared to what we got from Kolb and Skelton and Lindley a huge upgrade.

Forgetting Palmer the Kolb deal was one the worst we ever made. It was lousy before we even did it. They get a starter and we get a high priced guy who runs backwards and gets a bunch of money. That transaction set us back a couple of years IMHO.