Just did some research on McCown changing my mind on drafting a QB...

[vikesfan]

McCown was pretty impressive at the end of the year. He averaged over 6 yards a carry?! And he had pretty good stats despite BEING SACKED 8 times in the last games vs SEA and MIN.

Can he throw on the run? How strong is his arm. His stats seem pretty impressive, he is big and fast and tough.

Plus he has served his bench time.
How much better will a Ben or Eli be after a year?

I am kind of getting sold on him.

That OLine needs to be fixed if your oline is giving up 8 sacks a game - especially to dud defensive teams like SEA and MINN - it won't matter who your QB is nothing will happen.

The O Line and D Line/CB are priorities. The later draft picks and FA need to be used here.

Round 1 take BPA like Fitz or Taylor or if someone wants Ben/Eli make the trade but only if get young proven starter back and their #1.


Lots of holes need to be addressed maybe give McCown his shot this year. But a legit shot with a decent oline and forget about potential franchise QBs!

 

[Krangodnzr]

We were missing Kendall, and McCown held onto the ball way too long like most young Qbs. That's why he was sacked so often.

He is fast, running around a 4.5 40, which places him near the top at speed for a Qb (I've said a few times that he's the fastest white Qb in the league).

He has a strong arm and puts zip on his passes. Perfect spirals. Needs to work on his accuracy a little, and learn to read defenses (the offense was scaled down when he played).

 

[Redsz]

vikesfan,

***McCown was pretty impressive at the end of the year. He averaged over 6 yards a carry?! And he had pretty good stats despite BEING SACKED 8 times in the last games vs SEA and MIN.***

To be honest I wasn't expecting great stats when I looked them up. But I was actually pretty damn surprised that he had over 1,000 yards and had a 57% completion rate. With a 70.3 QB rating.

That's pretty impressive considering how little time he has spent on the field.

***Can he throw on the run?***

Yes he can. He threw a very acurate pass while on the run to Nate Poole. Sorry to bring that up.

***How strong is his arm. His stats seem pretty impressive, he is big and fast and tough.***

Combine stats:

4.59 in the 40-yard dash … 2.7 in the 20-yard dash … 1.64 in the 10-yard dash … 3.9 in the 20-yard shuttle … 6.85 in the three-cone drill … 38.5-inch vertical jump … 10'0" broad jump … 315-pound bench press … 465-pound squat … 330-pound power clean … 30 1/2-inch arm length … 9-inch hands … Right-handed.

***Plus he has served his bench time.
How much better will a Ben or Eli be after a year?***

IMO I don't think they will be any better than Josh....

Josh has atleast adjusted to the speed of the NFL.

He has also started the process of learning and reading complicated NFL defences.

 

[pinnacle]

redsz:

I do not have the stats for this...but Mccown played mop up duty a few times for blake (in a couple of those cases blake was injured). It was his first real nfl experience - and as soon as he came in the opposing team basically rushed everyone available (given the new qb). Josh had a couple of interceptions in like a handful of attempts. I know in one case blake returned after josh had played a few plays...

anyway..my point is that his qb rating should be better than 70 if you only count the games he started....he was awful in the situations where he came in when blake was injured (usually temporarily)...but he played decent when he had a week of preparation and was the starter...I am not sure what his qb rating is if you throw out his 2 or 3 "deer in the headlights" brief appearances and only count the games he started...

 

[BigRed]

Green has him penciled in as the starter but told him he'll face competition. It can't be any clearer than that. Green must think he has the potential but he also likes Parsons.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
(I've said a few times that he's the fastest white Qb in the league).

Good Gravy!

Why must we always use race as a caveat?

Would you say that McNabb is one of the smartest black QB's in the league?

Shame on you!

 

[Redsz]

Good points pinnacle.

I didn't take into account the times when he came to mop up. So you can take a few INT's and yards off his stats for the year.

But I'm also intreasted in what his QB rating would be for his three starts.

But in ether case. Considering his experince level I think he played well enough. And the fact that he improved and didn't repeat mistakes puts forward a good case for him starting this year.

Cardinal Ken,

I think that was more of complment to Josh more than a race thing. Considering that alot of the black QB's are very athletic.

 

[jstadvl]

I don't

see how one couldn't be impressed with Parsons. They have similar styles and I've always had the impression that Parsons was a Brady or Bolger type. If he gets his chance he'll become a starter. That said, I'm actually very comfortable going nito the season with these two!

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Redsz
Considering that alot of the black QB's are very athletic.

And the white QBs arent?

 

[Redsz]

Well after a little reasearch I found the stats for McCowns three starts...

Passing:

Completed 59 of 98 attempts, 60.2% completion rate, 602 yds, 6.8 yds per attempt, 3 TD's, 2 INT's and 21 SCK's.

QB Rating: 82.4

Rushing:

113 yds, AVG 6.6 per carry and 1 TD.

 

[Redsz]

Originally posted by Shane H
And the white QBs arent?

Of course they are. Being a pro athlete you have to be athletic.

But apart from Jeff Garcia and McCown, I haven't seen many white QB's who have blazing speed. Or am I wrong about this?

 

[Dan H]

Originally posted by Redsz
Of course they are. Being a pro athlete you have to be athletic.

But apart from Jeff Garcia and McCown, I haven't seen many white QB's who have blazing speed. Or am I wrong about this?

Steve Young was pretty quick in his younger days. So was Steve Bono, at least when he was playing the Cards.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by pinnacle
redsz:


anyway..my point is that his qb rating should be better than 70 if you only count the games he started....he was awful in the situations where he came in when blake was injured (usually temporarily)...but he played decent when he had a week of preparation and was the starter...I am not sure what his qb rating is if you throw out his 2 or 3 "deer in the headlights" brief appearances and only count the games he started...

True, and a point I hadn't looked at yet. Josh' stats as a starter

QB rating 82.4 60.2% 3TD 2 INT 6.8 YPA 1 TD rushing 6.6 yards per run 21 sacks. That's in 3 starts.

Confirms the stuff about holding the ball too long which we all knew, but overall certainly GOOD numbers for a guy making his first 3 starts. I don't know what it is about Josh I don't "trust" maybe it's the dumb mistakes he made in games, the pick against Carolina, the throw to LJ, the throw in another game(Rams I think ) where he came in, made one throw, near pick for a TD, and they immediately pulled him. Maybe it's teh Graves comments about how nervous he gets, I can't put my finger on why I'm not sold yet he certainly has the physical tools.

IN the games he didn't start his rating is 52.8 53% 5.1 YPA 2 TD 4 int etc. Maybe he's a guy who just can't handle being a backup because he doesn't get enough time to mentally prepare to play?

I hope Green is right but he knows a hell of a lot more about QB's than I do.

 

[Northern Card]

Russ, I'm sure you noted that he was less nervous (less happy feet) with each start... and, just maybe, that last drive against Minn. is a seminal moment for him. When you have the tools, and I believe he has - then it comes down to preparation and confidence and that last drive may be the before-and-after point in his career.

 

[Redsz]

Those where silly rookie mistakes. But I can certainly understand why they happened. But the most important thing about those silly incidents is that they haven't happend again.

The comment from Graves is just weird in my opinion. I respect Graves alot. But, honestly, what did he except from a QB with Josh's experince at the time? Did he expect Josh in his first time in the NFL not to be nervous? To run out and run the offence like Joe Montana?

You could tell that McCown was building his confidence every time he went out there. The nerves and 'deer in the headlights' look faded quickly IMO.

 

[justAndy]

over 16 games using the 3 game stats

McCown 315 for 522, 3210 yds, 16 TD, 11 INT, 603 yds rushing, 5 rush TD.... and 112 sacks!
that's the one bad area of his game so far, and i'd bet that the nutty professor will make VERY clear that the sack total must come WAY down. A lot of sacks were due to him holding the ball too long or trying to run out of trouble

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Northern Card
Russ, I'm sure you noted that he was less nervous (less happy feet) with each start... and, just maybe, that last drive against Minn. is a seminal moment for him. When you have the tools, and I believe he has - then it comes down to preparation and confidence and that last drive may be the before-and-after point in his career.

To be honest I STRONGLY suspect my uncertainty with Josh is more closely tied to 6 years of Jake, than anything with Josh.

Jake made similar silly mistakes, and similar brilliant plays or drives early in his career, but it took him much longer than what I considered normal to eliminate the brain farts. I may be judging Josh based on Jake, assuming that Josh will still make those dumb plays when you may be right that he showed with each start he was getting better and can play without those plays?

There's just something about him that concerns me, but when you see what Shanahan was able to do with Jake this year, and you realize Josh is bigger, faster and has a better arm, and Green has a rep with QB's too, maybe he really is the answer?

They were even talking about Blake being cut on my drive to work radio station that usually completely oblivious to the Cards.

 

[wierwolf]

I am excited. I think Josh will thrive in Green's system. With Quan going to end WR I am curious who Green will place in the slot. The offense is starting to shape. I like it. I am sure this is one in many let-go's. How much money does that free up? Congrats Josh!!!!!! Run with it man!!

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
To be honest I STRONGLY suspect my uncertainty with Josh is more closely tied to 6 years of Jake, than anything with Josh.

Jake made similar silly mistakes, and similar brilliant plays or drives early in his career, but it took him much longer than what I considered normal to eliminate the brain farts. I may be judging Josh based on Jake, assuming that Josh will still make those dumb plays when you may be right that he showed with each start he was getting better and can play without those plays?

There's just something about him that concerns me, but when you see what Shanahan was able to do with Jake this year, and you realize Josh is bigger, faster and has a better arm, and Green has a rep with QB's too, maybe he really is the answer?

They were even talking about Blake being cut on my drive to work radio station that usually completely oblivious to the Cards. ]

Call me crazy if you want, but I have never felt that the L J Shelton "pass" was as big of a brain fart as everyone claims.
Here's my reasoning:
It was NOT a forward pass. In that case, I believe, Shelton would have been eligible to receive it.
Pressure was on McCown, if he, himself goes down, then its a safety. In that regard he had nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying to get rid of the ball.
So he catches a quick glimpse of a team-mate out of the corner of his eye, under those circumstances. He may not see the number, but instintively just flips the ball to him. Had Shelton actually caught the ball, (and I think it WAS catchable) it could have turned out to be a genius "scramble" like move on McCown's part.

I don't think it was quite as boneheaded as many make it out to be. The biggest downside simply was the risk (since it wasn't a forward pass) of being recovered by the other team for a TD.
That was, to me, in actuality, the only real downside to it.

I think that counter balancing the "brain fart" aspect of it, is the fact that he was mentally quick enough to "see" the jersey in the first place and to instinctively go for it.

Yes, wonderful, wonderful, 20/20 hindsight can demonstrate that maybe it wasn't the most advised of moves. But like I said, neither was it as totally ignorant as some seem to suppose.

I'd personally rather see him at least try something like that, than sit there doing nothing ala Dave Brown and simply eat the ball for a sure safety.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Call me crazy if you want, but I have never felt that the L J Shelton "pass" was as big of a brain fart as everyone claims.
Here's my reasoning:
It was NOT a forward pass. In that case, I believe, Shelton would have been eligible to receive it.
Pressure was on McCown, if he, himself goes down, then its a safety. In that regard he had nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying to get rid of the ball.
So he catches a quick glimpse of a team-mate out of the corner of his eye, under those circumstances. He may not see the number, but instintively just flips the ball to him. Had Shelton actually caught the ball, (and I think it WAS catchable) it could have turned out to be a genius "scramble" like move on McCown's part.

Crazy.

It may have turned out okay in the end if LJ caught it and rambled 20 yards with it, but you're giving McCown WAY too mych credit on that play. He had a brain fart. Plain and simple. He didn't think it through like you've laid it out.

 

[az240zz]

Originally posted by Dan H
Steve Young was pretty quick in his younger days. So was Steve Bono, at least when he was playing the Cards.

ROFLMAO Ya that Bono was a blazing dude.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Pariah
Crazy.

It may have turned out okay in the end if LJ caught it and rambled 20 yards with it, but you're giving McCown WAY too mych credit on that play. He had a brain fart. Plain and simple. He didn't think it through like you've laid it out.

For example if Shelton tries to catch the ball, and bobbles it into a defender for a INT and TD, then it looks as bad as Jake to Coakley against Dallas.

One of the most annoying aspects of Jake for me was his constant refusal to realize that sometimes a sack is the best outcome possible on a play. That eating the ball sometimes IS better than just chucking it up for grabs. 2 of the plays I am mentioning with Josh, the LJ play and the pick for the TD against Carolina, are exactly that mentality at work. I'm going to get sacked, sacks are bad, throw the ball. Hopefully that's not something he'll repeat.

I'm fully behind Josh he's our Qb and as I said Green knows a hell of a lot more about developing a young QB than I do so I have every reason to expect he'll get better quickly under Green.

He certainly has areas he needs to grow, but he's got the skill.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Pariah
Crazy.

It may have turned out okay in the end if LJ caught it and rambled 20 yards with it, but you're giving McCown WAY too mych credit on that play. He had a brain fart. Plain and simple. He didn't think it through like you've laid it out.

What makes you so sure of that????

I'm not saying it wasn't a brain fart, only that it MAY not have been as much of one as touted, and there were some possible silver linings there.

The whole point is that he didn't have but a "split second" to "think things out" and I'm not all that disappointed with the "instincts" and "subconcious awareness" that may have actually been demonstrated there.

Its a point that can never be proven one way or the other.
You (or anyone) can no more prove your contention than I can mine.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Also...has anyone else got the feeling that for some reason.....Graves just doesn't seem to like McCown?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
What makes you so sure of that????

I'm not saying it wasn't a brain fart, only that it MAY not have been as much of one as touted, and there were some possible silver linings there.

The whole point is that he didn't have but a "split second" to "think things out" and I'm not all that disappointed with the "instincts" and "subconcious awareness" that may have actually been demonstrated there.

Its a point that can never be proven one way or the other.
You (or anyone) can no more prove your contention than I can mine.

Those same instics are what caused Plummer to throw dozens of interceptions. It was a bad play anyway you look at it, and it is complete homerism to try and justify it.

All QB's only get a 'split second' to react, the good ones know what to do with it!