K1

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cool... Let's pray the Cards grab that perfect coach who will find the way to take Murray to another level... and should Murray not develop, we can continue to blame Mike B and Keim for not getting Kyler that perfect coach.

Don’t get me wrong, kyler has a lot of responsibility to improve. He needs to be a film rat and he needs to refine his mechanics. But to completely dismiss the impact of coaching is just being purposefully obtuse for arguments sake. It falls into the same category of hyperbole in terms of making a cogent argument, which is to say, a failure.

As for the coach, it would be great to get the perfect coach (again hyperbole), but there are many very good coaches which might not be “perfect” that can help advance kylers career. I’m good if they can do that, which is perfectly reasonable.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the odds are far greater that, rather than settle as a back-up, he goes to play baseball...

The baseball argument is a dumb one. He was taken in the first based on raw elements. Look at his stats, they weren’t very good. He was considered a project based on his physical makeup. And if he fails outta the nfl it won’t be for a minimum of another 2 years (I mean he made the pro bowl this year, how many young pro bowl QBs completely wash out of the nfl in 2 years?). Which means he’s at least a 25 year old (likely older) rookie playing in the minors. Where he doesn’t make jack. Look at glennon’s career $$$. Murray is an nfl guy now. MLB just isn’t realistic.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Don’t get me wrong, kyler has a lot of responsibility to improve. He needs to be a film rat and he needs to refine his mechanics. But to completely dismiss the impact of coaching is just being purposefully obtuse for arguments sake. It falls into the same category of hyperbole in terms of making a cogent argument, which is to say, a failure.

masks for the coach, it would be great to get the perfect coach (again hyperbole), but there are many very good coaches which might not be “perfect” that can help advance kylers career. I’m good if they can do that, which is perfectly reasonable.

We'll agree to disagree... Coaching Kyler isn't rocket science. Now, if you're more talking about a life coach/emotional coach, that's an entirely different matter. But in professional football, there are a plethora of coaches all over the country, some of whom are currently on the Cardinals payroll, who are more than qualified to provide proper instruction to Kyler regarding the weaknesses I've pointed out.
Kyler has to want to. He has to accept that he's not good enough, which, for someone as gifted as he is and who has experienced the degree of success he's had since high school, I believe is a very tough pill to swallow. Is Kyler truly willing to do the work? THAT is far more the issue than "finding proper coaching."

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We'll agree to disagree... Coaching Kyler isn't rocket science. Now, if you're more talking about a life coach/emotional coach, that's an entirely different matter. But in professional football, there are a plethora of coaches all over the country, some of whom are currently on the Cardinals payroll, who are more than qualified to provide proper instruction to Kyler regarding the weaknesses I've pointed out.
Kyler has to want to. He has to accept that he's not good enough, which, for someone as gifted as he is and who has experienced the degree of success he's had since high school, I believe is a very tough pill to swallow. Is Kyler truly willing to do the work? THAT is far more the issue than "finding proper coaching."

So you believe kyler is uncoachable? That’s your premise, right? Do we have any evidence of that? Coach or player commentary? Something like the Thomas Davis vid in the Haskins thread? Not calling you out, just curious if this has been discussed anywhere or if it’s 100% conjecture.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We'll agree to disagree... Coaching Kyler isn't rocket science. Now, if you're more talking about a life coach/emotional coach, that's an entirely different matter. But in professional football, there are a plethora of coaches all over the country, some of whom are currently on the Cardinals payroll, who are more than qualified to provide proper instruction to Kyler regarding the weaknesses I've pointed out.
Kyler has to want to. He has to accept that he's not good enough, which, for someone as gifted as he is and who has experienced the degree of success he's had since high school, I believe is a very tough pill to swallow. Is Kyler truly willing to do the work? THAT is far more the issue than "finding proper coaching."

So you believe kyler is uncoachable? That’s your premise, right? Do we have any evidence of that? Coach or player commentary? Something like the Thomas Davis vid in the Haskins thread? Not calling you out, just curious if this has been discussed anywhere or if it’s 100% conjecture.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The baseball argument is a dumb one. He was taken in the first based on raw elements. Look at his stats, they weren’t very good. He was considered a project based on his physical makeup. And if he fails outta the nfl it won’t be for a minimum of another 2 years (I mean he made the pro bowl this year, how many young pro bowl QBs completely wash out of the nfl in 2 years?). Which means he’s at least a 25 year old (likely older) rookie playing in the minors. Where he doesn’t make jack. Look at glennon’s career $$$. Murray is an nfl guy now. MLB just isn’t realistic.

Since the crazy win over the Hawks, Kyler's played in 8 games. In 3 of those games he surpassed a passer rating of 100. He's only exceed 300 yards passing once in those 8 games and in 5 of the 8 games, he averaged less than 7 yards per pass attempt.
My point remains that the league is catching onto to Murray... just like it always does. It remains to be seen if Kyler is willing to put in the work to refine his craft and improve in the areas he is so weak.
I have a sinking feeling that he might not have the burning desire that is needed to take his game to the next level. Hope I'm wrong...

 

[82CardsGrad]

So you believe kyler is uncoachable? That’s your premise, right? Do we have any evidence of that? Coach or player commentary? Something like the Thomas Davis vid in the Haskins thread? Not calling you out, just curious if this has been discussed anywhere or if it’s 100% conjecture.

Never said he's uncoachable... I am saying that he is going to have to show he wants to be coached. Up to this point, I think it's 100% fair to suggest he's gotten by largely based upon his incredible physical gifts... Well, the NFL has a way of learning about those gifts and figuring out how to best marginalize the effectiveness of those gifts.
Will Kyler accept that he's not good enough? We'll see...

 

[TaylorSwift]

Since the crazy win over the Hawks, Kyler's played in 8 games. In 3 of those games he surpassed a passer rating of 100. He's only exceed 300 yards passing once in those 8 games and in 5 of the 8 games, he averaged less than 7 yards per pass attempt.
My point remains that the league is catching onto to Murray... just like it always does. It remains to be seen if Kyler is willing to put in the work to refine his craft and improve in the areas he is so weak.
I have a sinking feeling that he might not have the burning desire that is needed to take his game to the next level. Hope I'm wrong...

This is odd....

The Cardinals never really had a game where they got blown out in a loss. Rams and Panthers looked back but you could never question the effort by K1 as a qb in those game.

On top of it, Kyler has progressed as a thrower even in games they have lost over the course the season.

He understands out to throw to spots in zone coverage, look off safeties with his eyes. I believe his placement has progressed as well as anticipation.



And then you completely ignore the inept schemeing and play calling like somehow that doesnt matter at the NFL level.......

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[Russ Smith]

I think the odds are far greater that, rather than settle as a back-up, he goes to play baseball...

I've said it a few times that's a concern but it's far less a concern that it would be if Kyler were younger. he's already 23, 23 and 4 months. In football that's young, about right for a 2nd year guy maybe 1 year older than you'd expect for a QB taken that high that often can come out early. But for baseball, 23 is old, he's never played minor league ball. even if they started him at say high A ball he might not get to the majors until 26 years old unless he's just so good he jumps up quickly. If he plays say 2 more years in the NFL and then says OK I want to try baseball, he'll be 25 or 26 not having played in 4 years, just doesn't seem like much of an option.

If he's going to do it he almost has to do it this year, I just don't see that happening but I guess you never know.

 

[82CardsGrad]

This is odd....

The Cardinals never really had a game where they got blown out in a loss. Rams and Panthers looked back but you could never question the effort by K1 as a qb in those game.

On top of it, Kyler has progressed as a thrower even in games they have lost over the course the season.

He understands out to throw to spots in zone coverage, look off safeties with his eyes. I believe his placement has progressed as well as anticipation.



And then you completely ignore the inept schemeing and play calling like somehow that doesnt matter at the NFL level.......

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Never once questioned Kyler's effort on the field.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Since the crazy win over the Hawks, Kyler's played in 8 games. In 3 of those games he surpassed a passer rating of 100. He's only exceed 300 yards passing once in those 8 games and in 5 of the 8 games, he averaged less than 7 yards per pass attempt.
My point remains that the league is catching onto to Murray... just like it always does. It remains to be seen if Kyler is willing to put in the work to refine his craft and improve in the areas he is so weak.
I have a sinking feeling that he might not have the burning desire that is needed to take his game to the next level. Hope I'm wrong...

More often than not defenses hone in on offensive tendencies. Some may be a particularly player’s, like if kyler has a tell, but more often than not it’s cracking the scheme. Here it’s likely a combination of both. But if teams have schemed to limit his ad hoc runs (which seems somewhat accurate) it’s incumbent upon (a) kk to figure out how they are doing so and what is being given in exchange for scheming against the run (you’re only allowed 11 players so if you commit in one area you’re opening up another); (b) kk to then teach the opportunity to kyler in a way he can take advantage of it; (c) kyler to then read it and execute it; and (d) the both of them being capable of pivoting mid-game when the defense adjusts to their counter.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Never once questioned Kyler's effort on the field.

But thats what I am saying. A coach is supposed to the help develop a qb on and off the the field.

You cant expect a 2nd year qb to sit down by himself and diagnose back end coverages, blitzes, and other various defensive techniques and schemes.

Someone should be there to walk him that process. Helping digest film and regurgitate it on the field.

Thats what Kliff Kingsbury should be doing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Never said he's uncoachable... I am saying that he is going to have to show he wants to be coached. Up to this point, I think it's 100% fair to suggest he's gotten by largely based upon his incredible physical gifts... Well, the NFL has a way of learning about those gifts and figuring out how to best marginalize the effectiveness of those gifts.
Will Kyler accept that he's not good enough? We'll see...

So 100% conjecture. Just making sure I got it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

So 100% conjecture. Just making sure I got it.

As if anything anyone else posts here isn't conjecture?? LOL...

 

[82CardsGrad]

But thats what I am saying. A coach is supposed to the help develop a qb on and off the the field.

You cant expect a 2nd year qb to sit down by himself and diagnose back end coverages, blitzes, and other various defensive techniques and schemes.

Someone should be there to walk him that process. Helping digest film and regurgitate it on the field.

Thats what Kliff Kingsbury should be doing.

Are you conjecturing that there isn't anyone "there to walk him through that process?"

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

As if anything anyone else posts here isn't conjecture?? LOL...

Sure it happens frequently. But oftentimes it’s supported by some semblance of evidence, even if it doesn’t rise to the level of proof.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Are you conjecturing that there isn't anyone "there to walk him through that process?"

Lol

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Are you conjecturing that there isn't anyone "there to walk him through that process?"

Lol

 

[82CardsGrad]

Sure it happens frequently. But oftentimes it’s supported by some semblance of evidence, even if it doesn’t rise to the level of proof.

I believe with my own two eyes that there is a semblance of evidence to suggest Kyler may have some difficulty accepting the fact that he is not good enough in this current manifestation.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Are you conjecturing that there isn't anyone "there to walk him through that process?"

I am not saying no one is there, but are they instructing him properly?

Look at how Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan routinely have plays to have people running wide open.

Every time a play is made, Kyler has to make a tight throw. Sometimes he forces it, but other times nothing else is there and thats the play that has to be made.

I see that way to much. Thats a scheme issue.

Is Kliff unable to know how to scheme wrs open by attack a defenses weak points?

I have not seen any of that acumen from Kliff this season .


Why expect a guy who couldnt even scheme against college defenses to come in and cook up great playcalls and scheme against defenses that are 10x everything?

 

[Chopper0080]

If Kyler doesn't develop and refine his craft, how he's running 5 or 9 years from now won't matter because he won't be in the NFL at all...

I get that this is an abnormal situation, but we have to remember that it is an option for Kyler. The likelihood of him bailing on football for baseball is low, but it is there.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I am not saying no one is there, but are they instructing him properly?

Look at how Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan routinely have plays to have people running wide open.

Every time a play is made, Kyler has to make a tight throw. Sometimes he forces it, but other times nothing else is there and thats the play that has to be made.

I see that way to much. Thats a scheme issue.

Is Kliff unable to know how to scheme wrs open by attack a defenses weak points?

I have not seen any of that acumen from Kliff this season .

But how do you know that KK isn't calling plays that are intended to have people running wide open? And is it only KK's fault that Kyler consistently throws into tight windows, or, can it be that Kyler isn't seeing the field properly and therefore, isn't seeing when guys are open (I have seen this on multiple occasions with Kyler throwing to the wrong guy - or, the guy that wasn't as open as someone, or some other were).

Also, many times a QB has to stay in the pocket for another .5 second or so until a guy breaks clear. Many times a QB has to slide in the pocket, move his feet and adjust his eyes until guys break open...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I believe with my own two eyes that there is a semblance of evidence to suggest Kyler may have some difficulty accepting the fact that he is not good enough in this current manifestation.

He worked out like mad in the off-season. That’s on his physical abilities which were already considered next-level. That speaks to an individual who is not complacent, no? Perhaps he needs more time in the film room this offseason, but last offseason proved to me he’s not only willing, but trying, to get better. Regardless of what your eyes tell you about the inner workings of his mind.

 

[TaylorSwift]

But how do you know that KK isn't calling plays that are intended to have people running wide open? And is it only KK's fault that Kyler consistently throws into tight windows, or, can it be that Kyler isn't seeing the field properly and therefore, isn't seeing when guys are open (I have seen this on multiple occasions with Kyler throwing to the wrong guy - or, the guy that wasn't as open as someone, or some other were).

Also, many times a QB has to stay in the pocket for another .5 second or so until a guy breaks clear. Many times a QB has to slide in the pocket, move his feet and adjust his eyes until guys break open...

There are too many instances of just more schematics.

You couldn't free wield this much as a qb and be as individually successful as he has.

The NFL is way too hard for that. Yes, Kyler misses stuff, but every qb does exactly what he does if not more on a weekly basis.

I think he is a top 10 qb already

 

[Southpaw]

Cool... Let's pray the Cards grab that perfect coach who will find the way to take Murray to another level... and should Murray not develop, we can continue to blame Mike B and Keim for not getting Kyler that perfect coach.

I would really like to know the sequence of events and dialog that brought Kyler and Kliff together to the Cards. It might be a chicken or the egg discussion.