Kadeem Carey just fell to our rd3 pick - 4.65 - 40

[sundevil04]

I like Kadeem Carey, but if this guy had played anywhere outside of AZ, I suspect there would be no individual threads about drafting him.

Probably true, but that doesn't take anything away from his production

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

I thought the Pac12 was as good as anyone this past year and admit the Big 10 stinks. Still, they are not a conference that's kown for their defenses.

As for Carey, I've been wrong numerous times. I just don't see him being a big factor in the NFL. He'll be on someone's roster and play a role but I don't see him being a feature/main back of any kind.

Granted, you guys have seen him much more than I have but when I have seen him he looks like a good college RB that is iffy at the pro level.

The remarkable thing was that he did it so consistently. He could literally be counted on to be unstoppable every single week for two entire seasons with remarkable durability considering how he runs. Some team is going to get a steal, and unfortunately (because of the Cardinals needs and the fact that two backs were taken in last year's draft) I don't see it being us. I can understand how he could fall to the late second round because of his maturity issues, but based on his on-field performance, he is an NFL feature back.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The pac12 had 1 of the better run defenses in the country this season.

Outside of the SEC, what conference would you say is "known for their defenses?"

Ftfy.

Looking at the rush defenses stats, the PAC 12 was not all that good. Out of 123 teams the Pac 12 had 8 teams ranked 58th or lower. Satnford was excellent. USC, Utah, and ASU were okay.
Pac 12 Rushing defense ranks:
3-Stanford
19-USC
20- Utah
31- ASU
58- Wash
69- Ore
70- AZ
73-UCLA
84- WSU
87-Cal
91- Ore. St
101- Colo

Meanwhile the Big 10 had 5 or the top 28 in:
1-MSU
6- Wisky
7- OSU (you could have made money against me on that one)
17- Iowa
28- Mich

 

[sundevil04]

Ftfy.

Looking at the rush defenses stats, the PAC 12 was not all that good. Out of 123 teams the Pac 12 had 8 teams ranked 58th or lower. Satnford was excellent. USC, Utah, and ASU were okay.
Pac 12 Rushing defense ranks:
3-Stanford
19-USC
20- Utah
31- ASU
58- Wash
69- Ore
70- AZ
73-UCLA
84- WSU
87-Cal
91- Ore. St
101- Colo

Meanwhile the Big 10 had 5 or the top 28 in:
1-MSU
6- Wisky
7- OSU (you could have made money against me on that one)
17- Iowa
28- Mich

Post your link, here's mine.

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/24

and BTW, just like 40 times at the combine don't tell the whole story, neither do stats. Anyone that doesn't agree that the PAC12 was the 2nd most talented conference in college football or that ASU had a VERY good run D, simply doesn't watch enough football and spends too much time looking at charts and graphs.

 

[sundevil04]

You're right, I forgot how good Utah's run D was

Kadeem Carey vs Utah -
232 yards in 2013
204 yards in 2012

want to see what a bad defense looks like

Kadeem vs Colorado - 366 yards on the ground, plus 34 in the air - 400 yards from scrimmage.

 

[sundevil04]

Also, if you want to understand why stats don't tell the whole story, count the number of SEC teams in the top 30 rush defenses. There's 1, Alabama, so are you going to tell me the SEC defenses are no good?

 

[Jay Cardinal]

A couple of comments regarding Carey.

1. The UA offensive line was average at best and the quarterback was not very good. Teams lined up to stop Carey. Defense knew what was coming, yet he still managed to rip off 30,40, and almost 50 carry games, all season long. Every yard he got he earned. He helps his offensive line and receivers out a lot with excellent vision. Makes it very tough for someone to hit him straight on.

2. One on one in hole with a defender in good position to make a play, Carey almost always won the battle, usually decisively. Carey had a ton of plays where the defense played everything right, he just ran them over (with much more power than you would expect from someone his size) or juked them hard. And arm tackles, no way. He was the best in the country at not only running through arm tackles, but literally ignoring them.

Carey has vision, power, can block and receive out of the backfield. He is much closer to the total package than Sankey, Hyde, Mason, Hill, Grice or Williams. The only thing he is missing is track-star speed. I know that is a key element, but he stands out from a very average Running Back class in my opinion. He also fits well with the Cardinals' needs as we have Ellington in place for a speed back. I would love to pick him up in the 3rd and would not be surprised if Keim looked at him in the 2nd.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/ncaaf/stats/team-rushing-defense

I think anyobody who watches college football also realizes it was a down year for the SEC. UGA and FLorida were not up top standards. I think 11 of us had a good shot at starting for A&M amd Mizzou's defenses. Even LSU and, to a lesser extent, Bama defenses didn't play to their normally high standards.

I guess we'll have to disagree on Carey and see how it plays out

 

[Kel Varnsen]

He led in 2012 but not last season.

And yes, KaDeem doesn't need a FB, let alone any lead blocker, he simply destroys anything in front of him.

That reminds me...didn't he have a domestic violence charge?

 

[Mitch]

Carey's greatest asset is his stamina. He paces himself so well---he gets stronger with each snap. I really like his balance and like Ellington, he doesn't over-commit himself to the point where he just hits a hole out of control. He just keeps coming at you and before you know it he breaks one and he's over 100 yards. He's not flashy---but, he's dependable. Plays very much within himself. Reminds me some of Montee Ball.

 

[chickenhead]

I don't go out of my way to praise U of A players but I liked what I saw in this case. The Emmitt comparison earlier was interesting: I haven't thought about it myself but one thing I do remember about Emmitt from college is him beeing fed the ball the entire game without much drop in performance.

I wouldn't pick a local player for the sake of it, but having a Wildcat as a feature back might help convert some of those Cowboys fans in southern Arizona to Cardinals fans (or at least their kids).

 

[Krangodnzr]

I hate the heck out of UofLame, but Kadeem Carey after round 2 is straight highway robbery.

Draft this kid and you're getting your starting RB for the next 5 years. Seriously. Carlos Hyde wreminds me of Beanie Wells V2.

 

[TJ]

That reminds me...didn't he have a domestic violence charge?

Charges were dropped, but he was suspended a game for the distraction.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I hate the heck out of UofLame, but Kadeem Carey after round 2 is straight highway robbery.

Draft this kid and you're getting your starting RB for the next 5 years. Seriously. Carlos Hyde wreminds me of Beanie Wells V2.

Other than going to OSU, they're really not all that similar. Wells was much more talented but more injury prone and not as tough. Hyde runs much harder, tougher, and stronger. If you put Hyde's metality with Wells's ability, you'd have a top 3 RB in the NFL. Hyde also is much tougher to get on the ground. I remember the thread about Wells having small calves. There won't be any threads about that with Hyde. Even Mayock mentioned how big Hyde's legs were today. Hyde has improved as much as any RB I have seen at OSU. Coming into the year, I would have been expecting him to go round 5, or later. Frank Gore is a good comparison for Hyde.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Again I can only say the people who dont get the "love" for this guy dopnt watch his games. Cbus has already admitted he is unqualified to talk about him yet for some reason continues to do so. Feel free to come rub it in my face if im wrong. I wont be.

Im not a Arizona to NFL homer. There have been 2 UA prospects i have been PROOF POSITIVE would be great NFL players in my 15 or so years watching them. That would be Gronk and this guy.

It literally has nothing to do with homerism. What it has to do with is the majority of the board got to see him play at least every other week (unlike the CBuses of the world) and so they get it. Its as plain as day. Thats why ASU fans are saying the same thing. The only ones that arent are the ones that dont watch Pac 12 football and thus slurp up the national narrative on things other then their hometown teams/conferences. Dont feel bad I can guarantee numerous scouts and teams will do the same thing. Its different when you see it day in and day out.

Just stop trying to evaluate 40s and run defenses (he killed every good one he played - i cant even remember his last sub 100 yd game) its the way he runs. Unreal burst, wiggle, and doesnt go down after first contact. His YAContact must be unreal. And if you can find me an SEC team with better LB's then UCLA whom he went HAM on I gotta dollar for you. In the bowl game he went up against a bigger defense and Dline known for its physical play and absolutely embarassed Andre Williams head to head. And Zona's defense was nothing to write home about.

Just shut down the thread and lets wait to see what happens. As long as he has an opportunity he will be a star. We should be so lucky we get this guy in the 3rd or 4th

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Again I can only say the people who dont get the "love" for this guy dopnt watch his games. Cbus has already admitted he is unqualified to talk about him yet for some reason continues to do so. Feel free to come rub it in my face if im wrong. I wont be.

Im not a Arizona to NFL homer. There have been 2 UA prospects i have been PROOF POSITIVE would be great NFL players in my 15 or so years watching them. That would be Gronk and this guy.

It literally has nothing to do with homerism. What it has to do with is the majority of the board got to see him play at least every other week (unlike the CBuses of the world) and so they get it. Its as plain as day. Thats why ASU fans are saying the same thing. The only ones that arent are the ones that dont watch Pac 12 football and thus slurp up the national narrative on things other then their hometown teams/conferences. Dont feel bad I can guarantee numerous scouts and teams will do the same thing. Its different when you see it day in and day out.

Just stop trying to evaluate 40s and run defenses (he killed every good one he played - i cant even remember his last sub 100 yd game) its the way he runs. Unreal burst, wiggle, and doesnt go down after first contact. His YAContact must be unreal. And if you can find me an SEC team with better LB's then UCLA whom he went HAM on I gotta dollar for you. In the bowl game he went up against a bigger defense and Dline known for its physical play and absolutely embarassed Andre Williams head to head. And Zona's defense was nothing to write home about.

Just shut down the thread and lets wait to see what happens. As long as he has an opportunity he will be a star. We should be so lucky we get this guy in the 3rd or 4th

Why would I feel the need to rub anybody's face in it? The Carey fans are the ones getting so defensive when someone questions whether or not he'll be a star. I've said, I hope he is. I just don't think he will be. I don't have anything against him.

I haven't seen him every game for 2 years, but I've seen enough to have formed an opinion and not just basing it on one game. All, I know is that if he is that much of a sure thing, he wouldn't have a 3rd round, or later, and dropping grade.

I also like how you qualify, "if he gets an opportunity", he'll be a star. He'll get his chance, especially if he's as good as many think. I liken Carey, production-wise, as a propsect to Johnathon Franklin in last year's draft class and he had some flashes this year.

 

[Chopper0080]

I am with CBUS on Carey. He is ok, but he is a power back in a non power body. He doesn't flash great athleticism and while he was very productive in college, I don't see it translating to the pros. In terms of pro ability he is meh in almost every category. Speed..meh. Size...meh. Catching ability...meh. Blocking...meh. College production doesn't mean NFL production especially for RBs who aren't great athletes. I just don't see Arian Foster in Carey.

 

[TJ]

I am with CBUS on Carey. He is ok, but he is a power back in a non power body. He doesn't flash great athleticism and while he was very productive in college, I don't see it translating to the pros. In terms of pro ability he is meh in almost every category. Speed..meh. Size...meh. Catching ability...meh. Blocking...meh. College production doesn't mean NFL production especially for RBs who aren't great athletes. I just don't see Arian Foster in Carey.

No athleticism? The guy was asked to carry the ball close to 50 times in some games, and his last carry was as explosive as his first. Also, while Carey wasn't asked to catch much, when called upon, he made the catch and always moved forward.

What you failed to mention were three very important characteristics of an elite running back: vision, explosion, and durability. Carey has an uncanny way of finding the biggest whole in the gaps and blowing right through them. When he gets the ball, he's always moving forward and not gambling with the sideline-to-sideline moves that get lesser RBs in trouble. And if he was hurt, he never showed it despite the heavy workload.

Additionally, I hate when people say college production doesn't necessarily translate into the NFL. No ****. But when I see a legit 3-down back with power and a penchant for moving forward when he has the ball, I want him on my team.

 

[Chopper0080]

No athleticism? The guy was asked to carry the ball close to 50 times in some games, and his last carry was as explosive as his first. Also, while Carey wasn't asked to catch much, when called upon, he made the catch and always moved forward.

What you failed to mention were three very important characteristics of an elite running back: vision, explosion, and durability. Carey has an uncanny way of finding the biggest whole in the gaps and blowing right through them. When he gets the ball, he's always moving forward and not gambling with the sideline-to-sideline moves that get lesser RBs in trouble. And if he was hurt, he never showed it despite the heavy workload.

Additionally, I hate when people say college production doesn't necessarily translate into the NFL. No ****. But when I see a legit 3-down back with power and a penchant for moving forward when he has the ball, I want him on my team.

So he can carry the ball 50 times in a game...which is something he will never do in the pros.

Vision is subjective though I will say Carey is a good cutback runner.

Durability...ok. I guess I expect backs to be durable so I wouldn't say that is a huge plus.

Explosion..yeah, I don't see it. At least not at an elite level.

If Carey was 225 his athleticism would be less of an issue, but for a 200lb back, he is just nothing better than an average athlete at best. Maybe he sticks in the league in the right system, but I just see an average athlete who was productive in a good offensive system.

He is a legit 3rd/4th round player which isn't bad, but I don't believe he would be a steal in those rounds.

 

[sundevil04]

Emmitt Smith

Speed - meh (4.70 - 40) Carey - 4.70
Size - meh (5'9" 210) Carey - 5'9" 207
Catching - meh
Blocking - meh

Emmitt - 1,600 yards production his junior season, 5.6 YPC - meh.
Carey - 1,900 yards production his junior season 5.4 YPC

Emmitt & Ka'deem

vision - stellar
Balance - stellar

 

[az jam]

IMO Cards don't need to draft an rb, bigger needs.

 

[Chopper0080]

Emmitt Smith

Speed - meh (4.70 - 40) Carey - 4.70
Size - meh (5'9" 210) Carey - 5'9" 207
Catching - meh
Blocking - meh

Emmitt - 1,600 yards production his junior season, 5.6 YPC - meh.
Carey - 1,900 yards production his junior season 5.4 YPC

Emmitt & Ka'deem

vision - stellar
Balance - stellar

Different eras of football and totally different ways in how the games were played. Emmitt looked explosive playing in college was inserted into the perfect system for him to succeed. Emmitt also showed the ability to run away from defenders and caught the ball rather well.

Carey has never looked explosive in any game I watch, and I watch mostly Pac12 and SEC football. Carey showed yesterday at the combine that he is very average catching the ball and, like most college backs now days, he will have to start fro square one in pass pro.

People on this board act like being a 3rd or 4th round pick is a terrible slight on Carey. Facts are that he tests out as an average athlete which shows on his productive college film. He is not a natural pass catcher nor was he used as one in his college career. He is not a large RB so there have to be questions about how effective his power running style will be in the pros. He doesn't show breakaway speed on film which will make his transition to the pros even tougher because he will get less touches in the pros per game. He also has had some personal issues in the past which, while none led to serious criminal charges, still raise red flags. I'm not saying Carey can't be an NFL back, but his success will probably depend on the system that he is drafted into.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Different eras of football and totally different ways in how the games were played. Emmitt looked explosive playing in college was inserted into the perfect system for him to succeed. Emmitt also showed the ability to run away from defenders and caught the ball rather well.

Carey has never looked explosive in any game I watch, and I watch mostly Pac12 and SEC football. Carey showed yesterday at the combine that he is very average catching the ball and, like most college backs now days, he will have to start fro square one in pass pro.

People on this board act like being a 3rd or 4th round pick is a terrible slight on Carey. Facts are that he tests out as an average athlete which shows on his productive college film. He is not a natural pass catcher nor was he used as one in his college career. He is not a large RB so there have to be questions about how effective his power running style will be in the pros. He doesn't show breakaway speed on film which will make his transition to the pros even tougher because he will get less touches in the pros per game. He also has had some personal issues in the past which, while none led to serious criminal charges, still raise red flags. I'm not saying Carey can't be an NFL back, but his success will probably depend on the system that he is drafted into.

Pure blasphemy, he's going to be a star dammit.

I'm just kidding. I know what the Carey fans are doing. I spent many a post defending the credentials of Beanie Wells and couldn't be told he was not the best back to come out in awhile.

That's where the homerism factor I was talking about comes into play. We've seen the players play every game at a high level in college.

 

[TJ]

Pure blasphemy, he's going to be a star dammit.

I'm just kidding. I know what the Carey fans are doing. I spent many a post defending the credentials of Beanie Wells and couldn't be told he was not the best back to come out in awhile.

That's where the homerism factor I was talking about comes into play. We've seen the players play every game at a high level in college.

It would be "homerism" if it were only the UofA fans backing him up; however, ASU fans are going to bat for this kid, which is the ultimate validation of his skill set. That would be like Michigan fans endorsing Braxton Miller as a budding star and a guaranteed first round pick in next season's draft.

The PAC is widely neglected by anyone in the midwest or east coast, and unless guys get caught on the radar like Mariota, they are an afterthought. ASU QB Taylor Kelly once scored 7 total TDs against WSU and it was back page news for Sportscenter.

I'm just blessed I got to watch this kid start to finish.

 

[WildBB]

It would be "homerism" if it were only the UofA fans backing him up; however, ASU fans are going to bat for this kid, which is the ultimate validation of his skill set. That would be like Michigan fans endorsing Braxton Miller as a budding star and a guaranteed first round pick in next season's draft.

The PAC is widely neglected by anyone in the midwest or east coast, and unless guys get caught on the radar like Mariota, they are an afterthought. ASU QB Taylor Kelly once scored 7 total TDs against WSU and it was back page news for Sportscenter.

I'm just blessed I got to watch this kid start to finish.

I would agree. I'm an ASU backer and I'd certainly draft Carey over Grice. And I like Grice too.

We have to remember what his production tells us clearly, he's an NFL RB. He may not be a breakaway threat, but he'll be productive and get plenty of 20+ gains. The combine and measurables just reinforce production and give hints to ceiling capabilities. Heart and football aptitude are the other factors weighing in. This kid reads blocks very well and will be productive at the next level.