Keim Breaks Down Murray's Film

[BigRedRage]

I've tried here or there to bring up that I don't think he's the worst thing ever, unlike some, who are true Kyler haters, but I have to admit, I get riled up every time everyone starts to say he's going to be an absolute stud, and refuses to accept there's any flaws. There's 4-5 ASFN'ers who are already ready to say we're going to be a playoff team and that this kid's better than Mahomes or Wilson just because they're obviously in full kool-aid mode.

It seems like we can't have a thread where someone doesn't claim Kyler's going to mask all of this team's question marks, although I bet some people feel the opposite, like they can't go into a thread without someone bashing Kyler.

I'm just really struggling to find the positives.

Edit: Also frustrating is the minimal amount of coverage we've been allowed to get. I've been hoping we could get some highlights, interviews, anything to spawn some real hype, and there's not much of anything, so I'm stuck spinning my wheels with everyone.

I just want to get to camp or preseason and see some things actually get underway, or hear some reports from OTAs.

training camp will turn up the hype I imagine.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I've tried here or there to bring up that I don't think he's the worst thing ever, unlike some, who are true Kyler haters, but I have to admit, I get riled up every time everyone starts to say he's going to be an absolute stud, and refuses to accept there's any flaws. There's 4-5 ASFN'ers who are already ready to say we're going to be a playoff team and that this kid's better than Mahomes or Wilson just because they're obviously in full kool-aid mode.

It seems like we can't have a thread where someone doesn't claim Kyler's going to mask all of this team's question marks, although I bet some people feel the opposite, like they can't go into a thread without someone bashing Kyler.

I'm just really struggling to find the positives.

Edit: Also frustrating is the minimal amount of coverage we've been allowed to get. I've been hoping we could get some highlights, interviews, anything to spawn some real hype, and there's not much of anything, so I'm stuck spinning my wheels with everyone.

I just want to get to camp or preseason and see some things actually get underway, or hear some reports from OTAs.

I will ask again. What are these supposed flaws that Murray has? I see question marks for sure, and we have discussed them more than enough, but I haven't seen anything that he does or doesn't do on the field that I can pin point as a tangible flaw.

Here is a scouting report talking about his weaknesses right here: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...-and-weaknesses-impact-on-the-2019-nfl-draft/

Two of the three things that they listed aren't actual flaws, but are question marks that will be answered when the games start to be played (height and experience). The only tangible thing they alluded to was pocket movement. Other reports I have seen said that he would only bail on the pocket prematurely about 1 time per game (something to work on, but not a major issue). Quite a few times it would appear that he was bailing early, but it would actually be a designed QB draw and you would have lineman blocking downfield to prove it.

I saw another report that called accuracy a weakness, but KM completed a bunch of tough throws with great accuracy while sporting a 70% completion percentage (on nearly 12 YPA as well). Those things make me question any potential knock on his accuracy as no QB throws accurately on every throw and his numbers and the film that I have seen would tell me that is not something he struggles with.

I would like to add that I am not suggesting that he doesn't actually have weaknesses. What I am saying is that I didn't really see any legitimate weaknesses in his game last year. This season against NFL competition I would guess there will be at least one thing that he will struggle with and I will be able to point to as an actual weakness, but I don't know what that is at this point.

 

[slanidrac16]

There are posters who look at Murray and see his potential. His accuracy, arm strength, speed, quickness, release and mobility are apparent and many of us foresee success.

There are other posters who see the same thing but in spite of that chose to believe he will fail.

The posters that haven’t bought in can’t argue his strengths. With those posters it always comes down to his height and experience.

 

[devilalum]

There has NEVER been a QB like Murray

He's a generational talent

Like Zion in college hoops Murray will be amazing in the NFL.
Get your popcorn ready

If you listen closely you can hear d coordinators losing their mind ...'do we drop into coverage...damn it ...what if Murray runs....if we run a spy on Murray we lose a LB in coverage...if I tell the DE's to pin their ears back they'll leave running lanes...if we don't pressure him he'll throw all day on our CB's'

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[THESMEL]

There are posters who look at Murray and see his potential. His accuracy, arm strength, speed, quickness, release and mobility are apparent and many of us foresee success.

There are other posters who see the same thing but in spite of that chose to believe he will fail.

The posters that haven’t bought in can’t argue his strengths. With those posters it always comes down to his height and experience.

Height, slight and experience - man I want him to do well as I do the cardinals - but the reason Wilson went late, flutie was not committed too, and brees is considered a phenomenon - remains true - no matter how loud fans say it or how much foam is spraying from there lips.

At this point we are going to find out - we are the pig in the ham and egg breakfast - the chicken is involved but the pig is committed! He will have to find lanes to throw in, through tall fast nfl defenses - jump passes -elusiveness - and he will have to absorb nfl caliber punishment - a lot of it - and they can end you and the AZ cards first #1 overall draft choice on any given Sunday.

He is a unicorn as is Kingsbury - I will root for unicorns - but understand in my extensive nfl fan experience- that consistent success has never really happened - I mean in reality. Theory says it is not impossible, facts say it is highly improbable - I don’t want a flash in the pan with our only #1 draft pick in about 50 years.

Will take it one play at a time - but expect a lot of 0 yard incompletions - negative plays, interceptions, devastating hits - because a air red offense must outperform nfl defenses passing 79% or more of the time - passing is at much higher risk of 0 or negative plays than balanced or rush heavy offenses. And negative plays determine the outcome of nfl games most of the time - no matter what the sports center highlights that night.

KK and KM are off the board risks of a failed front office administration - a swing for the fence - after a miserable embarrassment hiring and firing last year - with out old coach jumping ship for Tampa bay! Out old dc - staff. You know when we last had sustained success with CJ leading the nfl in rushing - while Palmer and Fitz collected the glory.

Should be fun - like watching nascar - waiting for the wreck.

 

[football karma]

It’s all Arians and Bidwill’s fault.
Keim wanted Russell Wilson,Mahomes or Watson and wanted to hire Sean McVay to coach them. Don’t you remember the look of disappointment on Keim’s face when Bidwill hired Wilks?

i think all of the above is true

i also think that since each of those players / coaches worked out really well -- its human nature for Keim and Bidwill to maybe remember their belief on those decisions as being stronger than it really was

at the risk of rehashing: Mike B in a recent AZ Cards podcast (Big Red Rage IIRC) talked about passing on Russel Wilson due to size, and it was a mistake.

Fine -- but to take him, the Cards would have had to use their first on him ( they didnt have a 2nd due to trading for Kolb). DId they really consider taking Wilson with a low 1st rounder? Thats hard to believe.

 

[imaCafan]

My guess would be they really weren’t considering him in part due to his size. And they had Kolb.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Height, slight and experience - man I want him to do well as I do the cardinals - but the reason Wilson went late, flutie was not committed too, and brees is considered a phenomenon - remains true - no matter how loud fans say it or how much foam is spraying from there lips.

At this point we are going to find out - we are the pig in the ham and egg breakfast - the chicken is involved but the pig is committed! He will have to find lanes to throw in, through tall fast nfl defenses - jump passes -elusiveness - and he will have to absorb nfl caliber punishment - a lot of it - and they can end you and the AZ cards first #1 overall draft choice on any given Sunday.

He is a unicorn as is Kingsbury - I will root for unicorns - but understand in my extensive nfl fan experience- that consistent success has never really happened - I mean in reality. Theory says it is not impossible, facts say it is highly improbable - I don’t want a flash in the pan with our only #1 draft pick in about 50 years.

Will take it one play at a time - but expect a lot of 0 yard incompletions - negative plays, interceptions, devastating hits - because a air red offense must outperform nfl defenses passing 79% or more of the time - passing is at much higher risk of 0 or negative plays than balanced or rush heavy offenses. And negative plays determine the outcome of nfl games most of the time - no matter what the sports center highlights that night.

KK and KM are off the board risks of a failed front office administration - a swing for the fence - after a miserable embarrassment hiring and firing last year - with out old coach jumping ship for Tampa bay! Out old dc - staff. You know when we last had sustained success with CJ leading the nfl in rushing - while Palmer and Fitz collected the glory.

Should be fun - like watching nascar - waiting for the wreck.

What overall grade did you give him?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Height, slight and experience - man I want him to do well as I do the cardinals - but the reason Wilson went late, flutie was not committed too, and brees is considered a phenomenon - remains true - no matter how loud fans say it or how much foam is spraying from there lips.

At this point we are going to find out - we are the pig in the ham and egg breakfast - the chicken is involved but the pig is committed! He will have to find lanes to throw in, through tall fast nfl defenses - jump passes -elusiveness - and he will have to absorb nfl caliber punishment - a lot of it - and they can end you and the AZ cards first #1 overall draft choice on any given Sunday.

He is a unicorn as is Kingsbury - I will root for unicorns - but understand in my extensive nfl fan experience- that consistent success has never really happened - I mean in reality. Theory says it is not impossible, facts say it is highly improbable - I don’t want a flash in the pan with our only #1 draft pick in about 50 years.

Will take it one play at a time - but expect a lot of 0 yard incompletions - negative plays, interceptions, devastating hits - because a air red offense must outperform nfl defenses passing 79% or more of the time - passing is at much higher risk of 0 or negative plays than balanced or rush heavy offenses. And negative plays determine the outcome of nfl games most of the time - no matter what the sports center highlights that night.

KK and KM are off the board risks of a failed front office administration - a swing for the fence - after a miserable embarrassment hiring and firing last year - with out old coach jumping ship for Tampa bay! Out old dc - staff. You know when we last had sustained success with CJ leading the nfl in rushing - while Palmer and Fitz collected the glory.

Should be fun - like watching nascar - waiting for the wreck.

5'10, 211 isnt slight.

 

[HGC]

i think all of the above is true

i also think that since each of those players / coaches worked out really well -- its human nature for Keim and Bidwill to maybe remember their belief on those decisions as being stronger than it really was

at the risk of rehashing: Mike B in a recent AZ Cards podcast (Big Red Rage IIRC) talked about passing on Russel Wilson due to size, and it was a mistake.

Fine -- but to take him, the Cards would have had to use their first on him ( they didnt have a 2nd due to trading for Kolb). DId they really consider taking Wilson with a low 1st rounder? Thats hard to believe.

To take him the Cardinals had to want him. They didn’t. Russell was a mid 3rd round pick. If Keim wanted him as badly as he and his supporters claim he was there for the taking. Trading into Round 2 is not difficult. Trading up in Round 3 is even easier.

With all due respect you’re not going to write anything that’s going to change my opinion and I’m not going to write anything that’s going to change yours. Have a nice day

 

[blindseyed]

5'10, 211 isnt slight.

He was trying to get a good rhyme, he couldn't really put bite or kite lol

 

[Krangodnzr]

To take him the Cardinals had to want him. They didn’t. Russell was a mid 3rd round pick. If Keim wanted him as badly as he and his supporters claim he was there for the taking. Trading into Round 2 is not difficult. Trading up in Round 3 is even easier.

With all due respect you’re not going to write anything that’s going to change my opinion and I’m not going to write anything that’s going to change yours. Have a nice day

You are missing a key point here (purposefully?).

Keim fully admits he liked Wilson but discounted him because of height.

 

[Solar7]

There are posters who look at Murray and see his potential. His accuracy, arm strength, speed, quickness, release and mobility are apparent and many of us foresee success.

There are other posters who see the same thing but in spite of that chose to believe he will fail.

The posters that haven’t bought in can’t argue his strengths. With those posters it always comes down to his height and experience.

No, I think you're missing the point. We see some of those exciting things, but we also see them in a situation where everything was tailor-made for him to succeed. He had two receivers who either are, or likely will turn out to be, first round picks, an offense that puts college QBs in unique areas to succeed, sub-par defensive matchups, and an NFL offensive line that kept his jersey clean enough to eat off of. There's no doubt he's athletically talented and looked great in a perfect environment, but can he sustain that in the NFL? I have watched every throw of his multiple times, and I have genuine concern about him throwing into tight windows and really seeing what things will be like when he doesn't have a receiver open 5 yards off the defender.

That's real, football tape stuff. I don't do this for a living, but I know what I see, and it's nowhere near as convincing as the Murray cult claims it is.

He promptly did nothing in the offseason to prove he really wanted it, because it was clear he was going to be handed this job because Kliff has a crush on him, Michael desperately wants to be the nu-Browns, and Keim wants to prove to everyone that he's the smartest guy in the room because he once wanted McVay and thought Russell Wilson was gonna be pretty good.

The overall picture of the kid is of someone I would have taken later in the draft with all of his warts, saying, "well, this kid does have unparalleled athletic ability," but really questioning if the rest of the puzzle pieces come together.

Instead we went all in, and we have people here saying Kyler's going to transform this team, when I think it's the opposite - this team is going to get Kyler killed.

 

[slanidrac16]

No, I think you're missing the point. We see some of those exciting things, but we also see them in a situation where everything was tailor-made for him to succeed. He had two receivers who either are, or likely will turn out to be, first round picks, an offense that puts college QBs in unique areas to succeed, sub-par defensive matchups, and an NFL offensive line that kept his jersey clean enough to eat off of. There's no doubt he's athletically talented and looked great in a perfect environment, but can he sustain that in the NFL? I have watched every throw of his multiple times, and I have genuine concern about him throwing into tight windows and really seeing what things will be like when he doesn't have a receiver open 5 yards off the defender.

That's real, football tape stuff. I don't do this for a living, but I know what I see, and it's nowhere near as convincing as the Murray cult claims it is.

He promptly did nothing in the offseason to prove he really wanted it, because it was clear he was going to be handed this job because Kliff has a crush on him, Michael desperately wants to be the nu-Browns, and Keim wants to prove to everyone that he's the smartest guy in the room because he once wanted McVay and thought Russell Wilson was gonna be pretty good.

The overall picture of the kid is of someone I would have taken later in the draft with all of his warts, saying, "well, this kid does have unparalleled athletic ability," but really questioning if the rest of the puzzle pieces come together.

Instead we went all in, and we have people here saying Kyler's going to transform this team, when I think it's the opposite - this team is going to get Kyler killed.

But he is being set up in a system Taylor made for him with a coach that totally knows how to utilize him.

I will agree this machine is not going to be well oiled from the get go. What I think you’re missing is there is a reason his receivers were wide open. There is a reason he had times to stand in the pocket at OU. It wasn’t all “ because he had five HOF linemen blocking for him”. Play design , concepts, play calling and his ability to run all played a role in the success he and the team enjoyed.

There are going to be many times Murray will allude the defense and extend a play that a pocket passer simply would not be able to do.

The real question is to what extent.

 

[Solar7]

But he is being set up in a system Taylor made for him with a coach that totally knows how to utilize him.

I will agree this machine is not going to be well oiled from the get go. What I think you’re missing is there is a reason his receivers were wide open. There is a reason he had times to stand in the pocket at OU. It wasn’t all “ because he had five HOF linemen blocking for him”. Play design , concepts, play calling and his ability to run all played a role in the success he and the team enjoyed.

There are going to be many times Murray will allude the defense and extend a play that a pocket passer simply would not be able to do.

The real question is to what extent.

I’m not doubting that he is in the right system to succeed, and that he might.

Just stop telling me I don’t watch film, and my only questions are about his height, because it’s untrue for me and plenty of the folks who don’t think Kyler is already the best player to be drafted at #1 of all time.

Our doubts go so much further than wanting to spite his season of success. I need to know what he looks like when challenged with anything but the absolute best situation before I believe he’s the truth. And again, I want him to succeed.

 

[slanidrac16]

Height, slight and experience - man I want him to do well as I do the cardinals - but the reason Wilson went late, flutie was not committed too, and brees is considered a phenomenon - remains true - no matter how loud fans say it or how much foam is spraying from there lips.

At this point we are going to find out - we are the pig in the ham and egg breakfast - the chicken is involved but the pig is committed! He will have to find lanes to throw in, through tall fast nfl defenses - jump passes -elusiveness - and he will have to absorb nfl caliber punishment - a lot of it - and they can end you and the AZ cards first #1 overall draft choice on any given Sunday.

He is a unicorn as is Kingsbury - I will root for unicorns - but understand in my extensive nfl fan experience- that consistent success has never really happened - I mean in reality. Theory says it is not impossible, facts say it is highly improbable - I don’t want a flash in the pan with our only #1 draft pick in about 50 years.

Will take it one play at a time - but expect a lot of 0 yard incompletions - negative plays, interceptions, devastating hits - because a air red offense must outperform nfl defenses passing 79% or more of the time - passing is at much higher risk of 0 or negative plays than balanced or rush heavy offenses. And negative plays determine the outcome of nfl games most of the time - no matter what the sports center highlights that night.

KK and KM are off the board risks of a failed front office administration - a swing for the fence - after a miserable embarrassment hiring and firing last year - with out old coach jumping ship for Tampa bay! Out old dc - staff. You know when we last had sustained success with CJ leading the nfl in rushing - while Palmer and Fitz collected the glory.

Should be fun - like watching nascar - waiting for the wreck.

It was so disparaging watching an offense with so limited weapons and a total inept head coach and OC. This organization is no doubt swinging for the fences. Five years ago I might call them crazy.

But the direction the NFL is headed I think we will see teams adapting their game to the players that are coming out of college rather than adapting players to the old nfl ways. College players for the most part are not being groomed in the old NFL system.

This is not a slam dunk road to success. But no road is. I’ve grown to like the road we chose. We will see.

 

[slanidrac16]

I’m not doubting that he is in the right system to succeed, and that he might.

Just stop telling me I don’t watch film, and my only questions are about his height, because it’s untrue for me and plenty of the folks who don’t think Kyler is already the best player to be drafted at #1 of all time.

Our doubts go so much further than wanting to spite his season of success. I need to know what he looks like when challenged with anything but the absolute best situation before I believe he’s the truth. And again, I want him to succeed.

Never doubted or question how much film you’ve watched because if you didn’t you couldn’t intelligently express your point of view. I am not one of the Murray supporters that is guaranteeing success. I’m more or less thinking like the little engine. I think he can, I think he can, and hopefully he will.

As far as experience I don’t think another year of success at OU would have changed many of the detractors point of view. He isn’t growing any taller and would still be burdened with the “ he’s surrounded by NFL talent” syndrome.

 

[Stout]

But he is being set up in a system Taylor made for him with a coach that totally knows how to utilize him.

I will agree this machine is not going to be well oiled from the get go. What I think you’re missing is there is a reason his receivers were wide open. There is a reason he had times to stand in the pocket at OU. It wasn’t all “ because he had five HOF linemen blocking for him”. Play design , concepts, play calling and his ability to run all played a role in the success he and the team enjoyed.

There are going to be many times Murray will allude the defense and extend a play that a pocket passer simply would not be able to do.

The real question is to what extent.

Got to do it...tailor and elude :BIM:

 

[JeffGollin]

5'10, 211 isnt slight.

Proposed nickname for K Murray:

Back in my Pop Warner days, there was this guy, Jimmy Chapman, who was so tiny that he looked like a helmet with 2 legs sticking out the bottom.

His nickname:

"The Helmet."

So-o...

 

[Krangodnzr]

Proposed nickname for K Murray:

Back in my Pop Warner days, there was this guy, Jimmy Chapman, who was so tiny that he looked like a helmet with 2 legs sticking out the bottom.

His nickname:

"The Helmet."

So-o...

His nickname is K1

 

[Ronin]

His nickname is K1

*I request my username be changed to K1*

Joking.

 

[THESMEL]

5'10, 211 isnt slight.

Ok smallest qb ever drafted since maybe Flutie to my memory, much less number 1 overall. he is breakable, his legs are more important than to most QBs, a folded shoulder is just as probable in the nfcw, against these defenses. They will catch him, he is tough, just saying these are traditional fundamentals of drafting a franchise qb that were broken - hence my nick name of unicorn mixed with the air red offense. It blasted high risk - very high risk combination. Huge pressure on the oline and pass protection, when the run is an afterthought- proved that with Whiz and BA who seemed more balanced then they were because they called runs in spurts, after many 3 and outs failed us - we had an effective run game when we actually won and advanced - edge, Beanie, CJ - just the bold truth if one does not spin it. Just like all the other winning NFL teams

I didn’t grade Murrey like I use too because that offended many folks in the past but if I did it would be high 80s starter but not elite and mostly off athletic ability - he has a great arm but not as good as top elite NFL QBs. should prove an exciting gamble that none have ever tried - but is high risk in this air red offense too last very long - but hell im up fo4 riding a unicorn through red seas - Cardinal up and take it like a fan.

 

[THESMEL]

It was so disparaging watching an offense with so limited weapons and a total inept head coach and OC. This organization is no doubt swinging for the fences. Five years ago I might call them crazy.

But the direction the NFL is headed I think we will see teams adapting their game to the players that are coming out of college rather than adapting players to the old nfl ways. College players for the most part are not being groomed in the old NFL system.

This is not a slam dunk road to success. But no road is. I’ve grown to like the road we chose. We will see.

Agree to a point, more big colleges are running pro style offenses. Yes pro style has changed since madden began haha - but they do that because it is more reliable and consistent against varied opponents every week.

 

[Dr. Jones]

*I request my username be changed to K1*

Joking.

Speaking of this...... Where is @HeHasRosen ??? Last posted on 5/1/19.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Speaking of this...... Where is @HeHasRosen ??? Last posted on 5/1/19.

In fact, he joined on 4/30/18 and hasn't posted since 5/1/19. That's a bit creepy.