Keim press conference is coming up on youtube

[Zeem_Freeze]

Imagine getting headaches over a football team that doesnt play a football game for like 180 days... pair that with the fact that this is a deep CB market with lots of people still available that are better than PP and you look like chicken little thinking the sky is falling.

mark my words, the CB play at that spot will be better than PP and cheaper

 

[Solar7]

Imagine getting headaches over a football team that doesnt play a football game for like 180 days... pair that with the fact that this is a deep CB market with lots of people still available that are better than PP and you look like chicken little thinking the sky is falling.

mark my words, the CB play at that spot will be better than PP and cheaper

I'd bet hard earned money on you being wrong. And the available corners right now are garbage.

I'm getting headaches because my team is supposed to be getting better in March and April, not older and slower when we already weren't great in those areas to begin with. The talent we've acquired doesn't make up for the talent we have lost at all.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

I'd bet hard earned money on you being wrong. And the available corners right now are garbage.

I'm getting headaches because my team is supposed to be getting better in March and April, not older and slower when we already weren't great in those areas to begin with. The talent we've acquired doesn't make up for the talent we have lost at all.

ok lets put 100 on it. What will be the final word? PFF score for the new guy in 2021 vs Pat P's PFF score during last year?

and you're so wrong about the talent level dropping but there's no convincing the Solar, Stout, Ouchie, Cheesebeef, etc crowd that the sky isnt falling cause what else would they do with their life in March other than complain about a football team. I've seen a couple off seasons of this group of posters and its all the same negativity with little objectivity.

 

[Solar7]

ok lets put 100 on it. What will be the final word? PFF score for the new guy in 2021 vs Pat P's PFF score during last year?

and you're so wrong about the talent level dropping but there's no convincing the Solar, Stout, Ouchie, Cheesebeef, etc crowd that the sky isnt falling cause what else would they do with their life in March other than complain about a football team. I've seen a couple off seasons of this group of posters and its all the same negativity with little objectivity.

Wanna make it $20 right now with a guarantee I'll move it to $100 as long as I'm gainfully employed by the end of the 2021 season? Lost my job thanks to the pandemic and things here in Vegas are still hard hit, so I don't want to commit to too much money over bets until I know I'm good.

Sure, I'll take the PFF score.

And honestly, I've been objective about this team since Kingsbury was the hire, and the objectivity has panned out - our moves have been risky and questionable, and we haven't been a winning team. I believe it was Ouchie that said it in another thread, but it's not like any of us have been doom and gloom only to be proven wrong, besides maybe me with Kyler specifically. But as a whole, this still isn't a winning football team, even with the football gods bending over backwards to have an extra playoff slot last year and take our week 17 opponent's starting QB and multiple other players out in a play-in game.

 

[slanidrac16]

ok lets put 100 on it. What will be the final word? PFF score for the new guy in 2021 vs Pat P's PFF score during last year?

and you're so wrong about the talent level dropping but there's no convincing the Solar, Stout, Ouchie, Cheesebeef, etc crowd that the sky isnt falling cause what else would they do with their life in March other than complain about a football team. I've seen a couple off seasons of this group of posters and its all the same negativity with little objectivity.

I’m a little offended I wasn’t mention along with that group...

 

[DVontel]

I'm supposed to be excited about a "decent" player at 33? If anything, you can chalk him up as another Keim mistake. Yes, I'm mad we drafted someone billed as a slot CB that high. If they thought he could only play the slot, he shouldn't have been that high on their draft board. What impact has Byron Murphy had in any games that you can remember? This is a guy with one career interception.

Edit: Early morning error in this deleted section, I was comparing Murphy's 2019 to 2020 stats for other players. Need coffee.

The ones where you don’t hear his name called unless it’s a TFL/Sack.

 

[DVontel]

Imagine getting headaches over a football team that doesnt play a football game for like 180 days... pair that with the fact that this is a deep CB market with lots of people still available that are better than PP and you look like chicken little thinking the sky is falling.

mark my words, the CB play at that spot will be better than PP and cheaper

I have major doubts about the CB2 spot, but I’m confident a rookie CB1 will come in & play better than the garbage Peterson was laying out there the past 2 seasons.

 

[Stout]

ok lets put 100 on it. What will be the final word? PFF score for the new guy in 2021 vs Pat P's PFF score during last year?

and you're so wrong about the talent level dropping but there's no convincing the Solar, Stout, Ouchie, Cheesebeef, etc crowd that the sky isnt falling cause what else would they do with their life in March other than complain about a football team. I've seen a couple off seasons of this group of posters and its all the same negativity with little objectivity.

Watch complete ineptitude and suckage for 90 percent of the time for over 30 years and we'll talk. And I'm not even one of the older fans!

 

[Chopper0080]

You were doing fine right up to "he was never viewed" which is simply an assertion unsupported by what was written at the time.

The traditional Base Defence, as you describe, averaged 25% of snaps over the past 3 seasons. In fact, the true base in today's game is Nickel averaging close to 60% to which we can add Dime at 15%.

So much for my being ridiculous.

Byron Murphy 2020

Defence: 705 snaps: 71.69%*
S-teams: 86 snaps: 19.46

*It would be higher but for a return after Covid and snaps down against two primary running offences.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MurpBy00/fantasy/2020

In 2019, the Cardinals defense played 38% of defensive snaps in their base defense per football outsiders.

In 2018, Vance's defense in Denver played 45% of defensive snaps in their base defense per football outsiders.

The 2020 stats aren't out yet, but my guess is that this 40%ish trend of Vance's will continue especially since the #2 and #3 CBs for the Cardinals played 71% and 68% of snaps respectively.

In regards to Murphy's expected role. If Keim deemed Murphy as a first round talent and took him at 33 with no intention or expectation of him ever growing into a full-time starter role, than he is an even worse GM and bigger idiot that I thought. Personally, I think you are being disingenuous arguing that Keim took a player at 33, then stated he had a 1st round grade on him, but never intended him for a full-time role. Even for Keim that would be dumb.

So which is it?

Is Keim completely incompetent and deserves to be fired?

OR

Has Murphy underachieved for his draft slot and the expectation of a full time role?

You're playing both sides of the fence on this.

 

[SoonerLou]

I'm starting to really think if Farley isnt available that Keim is going to draft Najee Harris.

 

[SoonerLou]

I think Murphy can be a great safety, don't know why isn't tried there, as a slot corner he doesn't have the ideal quickness and on the outside is a liability
When he clearly see the action from the backfield he has nose for the ball but when he turns his back covering the receiver he doesn't have the speed to be effective and can't anticipate the play

I think Murphy could be a really good safety as well.

 

[QuebecCard]

In 2019, the Cardinals defense played 38% of defensive snaps in their base defense per football outsiders.

In 2018, Vance's defense in Denver played 45% of defensive snaps in their base defense per football outsiders.

The 2020 stats aren't out yet, but my guess is that this 40%ish trend of Vance's will continue especially since the #2 and #3 CBs for the Cardinals played 71% and 68% of snaps respectively.

In regards to Murphy's expected role. If Keim deemed Murphy as a first round talent and took him at 33 with no intention or expectation of him ever growing into a full-time starter role, than he is an even worse GM and bigger idiot that I thought. Personally, I think you are being disingenuous arguing that Keim took a player at 33, then stated he had a 1st round grade on him, but never intended him for a full-time role. Even for Keim that would be dumb.

So which is it?

Is Keim completely incompetent and deserves to be fired?

OR

Has Murphy underachieved for his draft slot and the expectation of a full time role?

You're playing both sides of the fence on this.

Feel no need to accept your premise.

I only recall what was said when Murphy was drafted and that his 2020 snap count is at variance with your earlier assertion.

 

[JeffGollin]

Barring a trade Cardinals will probably draft a 1st round CB, 2nd round RB and 4th round TE. There will be great value for those positions in those rounds!

Generally agreee -only I think we'll draft our TE at #2 and a RB at #4.

But here's another option: (a) favorable medical report on Alford and we sign Richard Sherman opposite Alford. While we'd still be thin depthwise, this would open the way towards not being tempted to desperately draft for need.

 

[football karma]

i dunno on Murphy. Drafts are always about what the alternative was

there were 6-7 CBs taken after Murphy. You would have to go down to Jameel Dean of Tampa taken in the third to find a better one.

Even that second round -- only 4 or 5 of the next 31 picks in round 2 are clearly better players. And i dont think there is really anything wrong with evaluating a player and pegging his floor as "good slot corner who can also fill in outside"

 

[Chopper0080]

Feel no need to accept your premise.

I only recall what was said when Murphy was drafted and that his 2020 snap count is at variance with your earlier assertion.

Good choice to just slowly back away from this convo.

 

[Chopper0080]

i dunno on Murphy. Drafts are always about what the alternative was

there were 6-7 CBs taken after Murphy. You would have to go down to Jameel Dean of Tampa taken in the third to find a better one.

Even that second round -- only 4 or 5 of the next 31 picks in round 2 are clearly better players. And i dont think there is really anything wrong with evaluating a player and pegging his floor as "good slot corner who can also fill in outside"

The problem is when you (Keim) state he had a first round grade, took him at 33, and then he never fills in at outside CB.

It is the equivalent of drafting Kevin Minter in round 2.

 

[slanidrac16]

Generally agreee -only I think we'll draft our TE at #2 and a RB at #4.

But here's another option: (a) favorable medical report on Alford and we sign Richard Sherman opposite Alford. While we'd still be thin depthwise, this would open the way towards not being tempted to desperately draft for need.

Sorry JG, but a starting Db backfield of Sherman and Alford in no way relieve the desperation for a cb.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

With big holes at CB, I think SK has backed himself into a corner. Remaining CBs on the market are uninspiring and are a stop gap at best. Therefore everybody in the league knows the Cards will take a CB round one and will most certainly trade down to get back another pick before round four considering the utter lack of draft picks. Would not be shocked if we go CB, CB with first two picks.

Particularly with us owning the 16th slot. It’s a lot more difficult to move ahead of us for a cb if you have to jump up to say 5 or 6 to scoop the cb. Teams that aren’t picks strapped like the Cardinals should be able to jump in front of 16 pretty easily.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Did you mean 1889? Have to admit I'm more concerned in the history of the Cardinals since we got a stadium. But if you want to go back a century or two, I'm guessing you like the Washington model. Win the offseason since it's eight months, and the RS is only four months. Good marketing, bad football.

Lol. Don’t like looking back that far? How were our last four offseasons? Right, awful. Winners.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And it's just a message board. But message board police try to regulate how posters react. If you aren't part of the sunshine and daisies brigade, look out! The message board police will come for you in the deep dark when the other posters are asleep

Yup. Note that it’s been a tradition of this board:

darksiders: criticize the actions of the team, attack the gm, owner, coaches and players.

Rose colored glasses look aid drinkers: attack posters.

super lame.

 

[PACardsFan]

I understand that this is a Fan Forum & everyone wants to be a GM wannabe. I guess I don't have the time to listen to all the bantering about "Keim should have done this" or "Keim should have done that". What purpose does it serve? The man is paid to be THE General Manager. He'll make his decisions & then we'll see how it plays out come September. He'll either look good, or perhaps he'll get fired. Either way, no one on this board will have a say in that matter. I know. I know. That's the fun of a fan forum I guess. Whatever.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

ok lets put 100 on it. What will be the final word? PFF score for the new guy in 2021 vs Pat P's PFF score during last year?

and you're so wrong about the talent level dropping but there's no convincing the Solar, Stout, Ouchie, Cheesebeef, etc crowd that the sky isnt falling cause what else would they do with their life in March other than complain about a football team. I've seen a couple off seasons of this group of posters and its all the same negativity with little objectivity.

Lol. You’re like a cult member who drinks the kool aid no matter what crap is floating in it.

a. You’re wrong about our reactions. I was excited when we drafted kyler. I liked last offseason. And I gave drafting Isabella the even fit of the doubt just to scrabble down a few offseason positives off the top of my head. But that doesn’t fit your hate-filled narrative.

b. Since these boards began it is without doubt the kool aid drinkers that have been proven the least objective. You just can’t accept criticism of your team. It’s why you suck at arguing the merits of the teams actions and thus have to resort to attacking posters. It’s comical and lame.

c. Lots of posts (not this one) about eating crow lately. The funny thing is that when darksiders are proven wrong they almost always have the moral compass to come back and eat crow. But when kool aid attack dogs like yourself are proven wrong (again and again and again) you never man up and admit you’re wrong. Similarly lame.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I’m a little offended I wasn’t mention along with that group...

You’re a newb to the darkside. Don’t worry, people like him will be attacking you personally instead of addressing the substance of your posts soon enough.

 

[football karma]

The problem is when you (Keim) state he had a first round grade, took him at 33, and then he never fills in at outside CB.

where my opinion differs is this: i dont see the 33rd pick in the draft as a no-brainer slot where impact starters are always drafted. No matter what GM is picking -- the 30-40 range has more misses than hits.

So i dont see Murphy as a failure at 33. Keim gets a passing grade for the pick -- neither a "A" nor a "F". If Keim's miss on Murphy is "I thought he could play outside, but it looks like he will be an upper tier inside guy" -- i can live with that at 33 given the importance of the slot corner in todays NFL.

he could have taken Rock Ya-Sin, who the Colts took with the next pick and plays outside CB. he also has struggled for 2 years.

 

[Solar7]

So i dont see Murphy as a failure at 33. Keim gets a passing grade for the pick -- neither a "A" nor a "F". If Keim's miss on Murphy is "I thought he could play outside, but it looks like he will be an upper tier inside guy" -- i can live with that at 33 given the importance of the slot corner in todays NFL.

My issue is, I don't think Keim every projected the guy to the outside. I think he bit too soon on a guy he thought was going to play in the slot and primarily the slot.

Both Budda Baker and Byron Murphy seem like picks to me that were intended to replace what he had in Tyrann Mathieu. Budda mostly hit in that regard, and relegated Murphy to having a much more limited role than I think might have been scoped for.