Keim throwing gas on the fire that is our defense

[BW52]

Dockett is a nonfactor...sure, most around here feel comfortable believing that fairy tale. Dockett does nothing, except in the mindset of opposing offensive coaches. And while we are at it, let's make sure to throw some darts at Powers for being a solid #2 corner, but I guess that does not count even though a majority of the passes go his way and we are still a top defense

Teams worry about Campbell.DD is a afterthought.Campbell is the playmaker.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Teams worry about Campbell.DD is a afterthought.Campbell is the playmaker.

I think we should just cut Dockett and draft someone in the third round who would be just as productive as him and be a more inexpensive nonfactor

 

[Duckjake]

I sure would like to be enlightened on Dockett`s good season.Maybe someone who subscribes to PFFocus will tell us.I looked up the game reviews for every Cardinal game last season.
1STL-Dockett -6.2 minus
2DET no mention
3.NO-DD best game plus 8.5
4.TB no mention
5.Car- no mention
6.SF- nm
7.SEA -nm
8.ATl- defense got mentioned
9.BYE
10.HTN- Dockett plus 2.5 run defense
11.JAX nm
12 IND-Dockett plus game
13 Phila -nm
14STL- Dline and run def mentioned
15.TNN-Dockett 2.7 plus vs run
16.SEA nm
17.SF nm


4 plus Dockett mentions and 1 minus mention
2 defense mentions
9 no mentions at all.
That isn`t being a big impact player IMO.

Ha! You're talking about the same Pro Football Focus that once claimed Rod Hood was one of the top 5 Cornerbacks in the NFL and the Cards released him the next year?

Dockett's third year in the nfl: 36 Solo tackles, 14 assists, 2 sacks. 2013, 7 years later, 36 solo tackles, 10 assists and 4.5 sacks. Seems like the same guy to me.

 

[BW52]

Ha! You're talking about the same Pro Football Focus that once claimed Rod Hood was one of the top 5 Cornerbacks in the NFL and the Cards released him the next year?

Dockett's third year in the nfl: 36 Solo tackles, 14 assists, 2 sacks. 2013, 7 years later, 36 solo tackles, 10 assists and 4.5 sacks. Seems like the same guy to me.

Same salary?

 

[Duckjake]

Same salary?

What does that have to do with you all saying Dockett was a non factor in last year's defense?

 

[BigRedRage]

I sure would like to be enlightened on Dockett`s good season.Maybe someone who subscribes to PFFocus will tell us.I looked up the game reviews for every Cardinal game last season.
1STL-Dockett -6.2 minus
2DET no mention
3.NO-DD best game plus 8.5
4.TB no mention
5.Car- no mention
6.SF- nm
7.SEA -nm
8.ATl- defense got mentioned
9.BYE
10.HTN- Dockett plus 2.5 run defense
11.JAX nm
12 IND-Dockett plus game
13 Phila -nm
14STL- Dline and run def mentioned
15.TNN-Dockett 2.7 plus vs run
16.SEA nm
17.SF nm


4 plus Dockett mentions and 1 minus mention
2 defense mentions
9 no mentions at all.
That isn`t being a big impact player IMO.

He fills his role VERY well and is a leader of the entire team. His play was on par with his typical play that got him paid like a top lineman in the league.

Yes his salary is larger than his production in 2015 - I am assuming he will take a paycut. If he wont, he will be gone. Dockett is an important piece of our D. He is not a "non factor"

 

[Chopper0080]

This team has bigger issues than Darnell Dockett, let's concentrate on those.

I would prefer to draft players who will be on the team and contributing into their next contract...let's start there.

 

[Cheesebeef]

i kinda fear a wet blanket in the form of HB's injury, a possible Washington suspension and Dansby's gonzo act has been thrown on the fire, but hopefully Minter's a stud, Washington gets a slap on the wrist and we get an impact playmaker with our first round pick to go with a Cromartie resurgence to make up for the above.

 

[BW52]

This team has bigger issues than Darnell Dockett, let's concentrate on those.

I would prefer to draft players who will be on the team and contributing into their next contract...let's start there.

Fair enough.
Trent Murphy DE-OLB from Stanford-another guy who could be available at #20.Is he athletic enough to be a factor at OLB?

 

[Chopper0080]

He fills his role VERY well and is a leader of the entire team. His play was on par with his typical play that got him paid like a top lineman in the league.

Yes his salary is larger than his production in 2015 - I am assuming he will take a paycut. If he wont, he will be gone. Dockett is an important piece of our D. He is not a "non factor"

Agreed. Dockett will either take a paycut in 2015 or he will be cut. I'm guessing this is pretty clear with all parties. As far as 2014, he plays a high number of snaps and he stays healthy. That is good enough for me right now.

 

[Chopper0080]

Fair enough.
Trent Murphy DE-OLB from Stanford-another guy who could be available at #20.Is he athletic enough to be a factor at OLB?

I think Murphy's impact will be limited in the NFL because he is a tweener without great size or athleticism. I think he could be Sam Acho, which isn't bad, but not worth a first or second round pick if you ask me.

 

[Totally_Red]

Agreed. Dockett will either take a paycut in 2015 or he will be cut. I'm guessing this is pretty clear with all parties. As far as 2014, he plays a high number of snaps and he stays healthy. That is good enough for me right now.

This!
It would be nice to draft Dockett's replacement at some point, but the obvious priorities are safety, middle linebacker depth, pass rusher and right tackle.

As for tight end, this draft is very weak at that position. I'm not sure the Cardinals even draft one. That's what signing John Carlson was about. With Carlson, Rob Housler and Jake Ballard plus the developmental prospects, drafting a tight end is a luxury for the Cardinals compared to other positions. That's not to say that if a solid veteran becomes available, the Cardinals won't move on him. But with the shortage of decent prospects in this draft, and the Cardinals relative strength at the position, other teams are more apt to overdraft the position than leaving a good prospect available as a value selection for BASK IMO.

 

[BigRedRage]

Agreed. Dockett will either take a paycut in 2015 or he will be cut. I'm guessing this is pretty clear with all parties. As far as 2014, he plays a high number of snaps and he stays healthy. That is good enough for me right now.

With how much dockett loves being a part of the birdgang, if we offer him a reasonable paycut that pays him like he should be paid based on age and production, I dont think he turns it away unless someone is willing to pay the guy like he is still 27.

 

[BW52]

I think Murphy's impact will be limited in the NFL because he is a tweener without great size or athleticism. I think he could be Sam Acho, which isn't bad, but not worth a first or second round pick if you ask me.

Not a bad comparison.The top pass rushers (Clowney,Mack and Barr) all probably gone by #20.Ealy,Shazier and Ford could be there for the picking.Every pass rusher after the top 4 (Clowney,Mack,Barr and Ealy ) all have some questions attached.
Shazier OLB-can he hold up versus the run?
Van Noy OLB-is he atletic enough or physical enough?
Trevor Reilly DE-OLB-Quick enough on the edge?
Dee Ford DE-OLB-can he hold the edge ?
Marcus Smith DE-OLB-edge quickness?
Demarcus Lawrence DE-OLB-tweener?

So do the Cards take one of the leftover passrushers or go another position and pick up a probable starter (safety? RT ?

 

[Chopper0080]

Not a bad comparison.The top pass rushers (Clowney,Mack and Barr) all probably gone by #20.Ealy,Shazier and Ford could be there for the picking.Every pass rusher after the top 4 (Clowney,Mack,Barr and Ealy ) all have some questions attached.
Shazier OLB-can he hold up versus the run?
Van Noy OLB-is he atletic enough or physical enough?
Trevor Reilly DE-OLB-Quick enough on the edge?
Dee Ford DE-OLB-can he hold the edge ?
Marcus Smith DE-OLB-edge quickness?
Demarcus Lawrence DE-OLB-tweener?

So do the Cards take one of the leftover passrushers or go another position and pick up a probable starter (safety? RT ?

I think the recipe on draft day for the Cardinals is to infuse the defensive side of the roster with talent. In order to do that, I believe the Cardinals will have some tiers of players they are looking at and a defined trade-back plan if they are all gone. I think this because I don't know how much of a difference there is between Demarcus Lawrence, Dee Ford, Kony Ealy and Kyle Van Noy there is. Is Darqueze Dennard a 2nd or 3rd round pick better than Jaylen Watkins who I think is pretty damn good?

If I had to guess, my guess would be round 1 goes like this. Jake Matthews, Greg Robinson, Sammy Watkins Jr, Clowney, A Donald, Khalil Mack, Anthony Barr or trade down. Maybe Gilbert, Pryor and Clinton-Dix are in there as well but I am less certain on those three. Remember this is a deep draft but not necessarily a star laden one.

My dream...
Trade down from #20 to the early 2nd round. Pick up some extra picks. Repeat. Add a bunch of young talent that way we are not having to pay for the Powers, Brinkley's, Lorenzo Alexanders of FA. If I could manufacture a draft of Jaylen Watkins, Deone Bucannon, Will Clarke, Robert Herron, Jerimiah Attouchu, Terrence West/Dri Archer and Tom Savage, I would love it. Dri Archer, De'Anthony Thomas, John Brown, Jarvis Landry, CJ Fiedorowicz, DeAnder Coleman, Brent Urban, Adrian HUbbard, Larry Webster, Carl Bradford, Kyle Van Noy, Walt Aikens, and Ed Reynolds are all players who can be had throughout the draft and really bolster the roster.

Add bunches of talent and hopefully the coaching staff can develop it. That is the only way this team is successful long term.

 

[BW52]

I think the recipe on draft day for the Cardinals is to infuse the defensive side of the roster with talent. In order to do that, I believe the Cardinals will have some tiers of players they are looking at and a defined trade-back plan if they are all gone. I think this because I don't know how much of a difference there is between Demarcus Lawrence, Dee Ford, Kony Ealy and Kyle Van Noy there is. Is Darqueze Dennard a 2nd or 3rd round pick better than Jaylen Watkins who I think is pretty damn good?

If I had to guess, my guess would be round 1 goes like this. Jake Matthews, Greg Robinson, Sammy Watkins Jr, Clowney, A Donald, Khalil Mack, Anthony Barr or trade down. Maybe Gilbert, Pryor and Clinton-Dix are in there as well but I am less certain on those three. Remember this is a deep draft but not necessarily a star laden one.

My dream...
Trade down from #20 to the early 2nd round. Pick up some extra picks. Repeat. Add a bunch of young talent that way we are not having to pay for the Powers, Brinkley's, Lorenzo Alexanders of FA. If I could manufacture a draft of Jaylen Watkins, Deone Bucannon, Will Clarke, Robert Herron, Jerimiah Attouchu, Terrence West/Dri Archer and Tom Savage, I would love it. Dri Archer, De'Anthony Thomas, John Brown, Jarvis Landry, CJ Fiedorowicz, DeAnder Coleman, Brent Urban, Adrian HUbbard, Larry Webster, Carl Bradford, Kyle Van Noy, Walt Aikens, and Ed Reynolds are all players who can be had throughout the draft and really bolster the roster.

Add bunches of talent and hopefully the coaching staff can develop it. That is the only way this team is successful long term.

I have read that several "experts" think this draft has 8 or 9 Top talent guys and then drops off a bit after that.Not really a knock on the players just 8 or 9 are just a small step above the others.
If the Cards feel a trade down would gather several more picks for players that are close in rankings it could be in play.

 

[BigRedRage]

"lighting our bowles on fire"

"bowels has shifted in our favor"

Keim to add more to bowles scheme"

I got nuthin.

 

[juza76]

Which teams outside of rams and whiners has multiple picks and can be potential trade partner?
I can see teams trading up to grab a receiver(lee,cooks,benjamin....)

 

[Chopper0080]

Which teams outside of rams and whiners has multiple picks and can be potential trade partner?
I can see teams trading up to grab a receiver(lee,cooks,benjamin....)

The best scenario for the Cardinals would be if the top teams (Houston, Jacksonville and Minnesota) pass on a QB in round 1 and then battle to move up and get the one they want moving for early 2nd to late 1st.

Some options

Jacksonville has picks 39, 70, 105, 114, 144, 150, 159

Cleveland has picks 26, 35, 71, 83, 106, 127

Minnesota has 40, 72, 96, 108

Those are probably where you would want to start when looking at trades to accumulate picks.

Most likely trade...Jacksonville trading 39, 105, 144 to move up to #20 and draft a QB.

*Why Jacksonville trades? Jags would still hold picks 3, 20, 70, 114. While some would argue the Jags need a ton of players, I would argue that trading up from round two would allow them to draft a non -QB with the 3rd pick and still be able to select a QB of their choosing with several options available.


Best potential haul...Cleveland trades 35, 83, 106 to move up to #20 and draft a QB, WR, OL, CB or S.

*Why Cleveland trades? They would have picks 4, 20, 26, 71, 127...which would allow them to feasibly draft Sammy Watkins, Derek Carr, Kyle Fuller, and Gabe Jackson with their first 4 picks. That could be the offensive/talent overall that they need to turn their franchise around.

 

[Duckjake]

Awesome that fans are finally realizing that it's tackles and interceptions and the disrupting of the opponents offense that is important and not how much $$$ a player makes.

I don't think anyone who posts here would think that on January 18th 2009 that anyone on the roster was overpaid.

Or for all the Dansby bashers that anyone thought that he was a self centered SOB all about the $$$ on January 10th 2010.

I know the $ is a factor and it sucks that it is but a guy doesn't suck as a player just because some people think he's taking up too much of the team's salary cap.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Fair enough.
Trent Murphy DE-OLB from Stanford-another guy who could be available at #20.Is he athletic enough to be a factor at OLB?

I think Murphy's impact will be limited in the NFL because he is a tweener without great size or athleticism. I think he could be Sam Acho, which isn't bad, but not worth a first or second round pick if you ask me.

20 would be extremely high for Murphy but I think he'd be a nice get at 52. He tested surprisngly very athletic at the combine with a 4.20 shuttle, 35.5 vertical, and 6.78 3 cone drill. He shaved 1/10 second off his 40 to 4.75 range at his pro day.

Here's his strengths and weakenesses fro CBS:

STRENGTHS: Possesses a surprisingly lean, country-strong frame with broad shoulders, a trim middle and long limbs with plenty of room for additional muscle mass. Lined up the majority of the time out of the two-point stance, showing fair speed off the corner in this role. Has a high, choppy back-pedal but gains ground quickly due to his long legs and has surprisingly fluid hips to turn and run with potential receivers. Shows better burst off the ball out of the three-point stance, timing the snap well and showing natural explosiveness in his legs to spring forward. Uses his hands well, including a very effective club and shoulder dip to efficiently cross the face of pass-blockers. Possesses at least fair closing speed, as well as vision and anticipation to stalk the ball-carrier, often meeting them as they attempt to flee rather than missing them deeper in the backfield. Instinctive defender. Locates the ball and is a high-motor player. Functional flexibility. Recognizes cut-blocks and sprawls well, using his hands to knock down defenders and keeping his eyes up to react to the quick-throw. Plays with a degree of toughness and physicality that every coach will appreciate... A former steer-wrestler and plays with this mentality.

WEAKNESSES: Will be viewed by many as a classic 'tweener. Does not possess the muscled-up frame teams are expecting as a defensive lineman nor the straight-line speed expected of a linebacker. Has been surrounded by other instinctive and physical players throughout his career at Stanford and Murphy's lack of ideal "juice" was evident against the better athletes at the Senior Bowl.

And more from Rob Rang:

Stanford's Trent Murphy, who led the nation with 15 sacks as a senior, shaved over a tenth of a second off of his 40-yard dash time on Thursday, recording a 4.72-4.75 according to a source at the workout. The 6-foot-6, 250 pound Murphy had been clocked at 4.86 seconds in Indianapolis. Following the timed drills, Murphy was asked to perform in defensive linemen and linebacker drills, where I'm told he impressed with his underrated athleticism. Some believe that Murphy is a 'tweener who will struggle to find a role in the NFL. I see a versatile defender capable of lining up in the two or three point stance who has consistently demonstrated a knack for making big plays. - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com

 

[kerouac9]

20 would be extremely high for Murphy but I think he'd be a nice get at 52. He tested surprisngly very athletic at the combine with a 4.20 shuttle, 35.5 vertical, and 6.78 3 cone drill. He shaved 1/10 second off his 40 to 4.75 range at his pro day.

Here's his strengths and weakenesses fro CBS:

STRENGTHS: Possesses a surprisingly lean, country-strong frame with broad shoulders, a trim middle and long limbs with plenty of room for additional muscle mass. Lined up the majority of the time out of the two-point stance, showing fair speed off the corner in this role. Has a high, choppy back-pedal but gains ground quickly due to his long legs and has surprisingly fluid hips to turn and run with potential receivers. Shows better burst off the ball out of the three-point stance, timing the snap well and showing natural explosiveness in his legs to spring forward. Uses his hands well, including a very effective club and shoulder dip to efficiently cross the face of pass-blockers. Possesses at least fair closing speed, as well as vision and anticipation to stalk the ball-carrier, often meeting them as they attempt to flee rather than missing them deeper in the backfield. Instinctive defender. Locates the ball and is a high-motor player. Functional flexibility. Recognizes cut-blocks and sprawls well, using his hands to knock down defenders and keeping his eyes up to react to the quick-throw. Plays with a degree of toughness and physicality that every coach will appreciate... A former steer-wrestler and plays with this mentality.

WEAKNESSES: Will be viewed by many as a classic 'tweener. Does not possess the muscled-up frame teams are expecting as a defensive lineman nor the straight-line speed expected of a linebacker. Has been surrounded by other instinctive and physical players throughout his career at Stanford and Murphy's lack of ideal "juice" was evident against the better athletes at the Senior Bowl.

And more from Rob Rang:

Stanford's Trent Murphy, who led the nation with 15 sacks as a senior, shaved over a tenth of a second off of his 40-yard dash time on Thursday, recording a 4.72-4.75 according to a source at the workout. The 6-foot-6, 250 pound Murphy had been clocked at 4.86 seconds in Indianapolis. Following the timed drills, Murphy was asked to perform in defensive linemen and linebacker drills, where I'm told he impressed with his underrated athleticism. Some believe that Murphy is a 'tweener who will struggle to find a role in the NFL. I see a versatile defender capable of lining up in the two or three point stance who has consistently demonstrated a knack for making big plays. - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com

FootballOutsiders has a cool but not authoritative scouting metric called SackSEER: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/sackseer-2014

SackSEER loves (comparabily) Jackson Jeffcoat and Trent Murphy more than Ealy or Van Noy as value propositions. It doesn't like Dee Ford very much.