Kelly Oubre...

[Dr. Jones]

Because Kelly Oubre is NOT Joe Johnson. And the money is different.

What does that have to do with anything?

Your other comment? KO is not JJ? I contend that he is very similar to JJ when he left Boston?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Here is the thread: https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/ayton-or-doncic.265285/

Ayton is at 92% of the vote. 103 votes to 9 for Doncic. That's pretty damn decisive.

Guess I wasn't too far off going off memory. Though the numbers may have been leaning even heavier towards Ayton the last time I saw it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think most Suns fans on this forum wanted Ayton almost solely because he can be a star CENTER. Not having a star center for so many years, while watching the Lakers win numerous titles with a great big man in the pivot has left this fan base scarred.

I think Doncic is a great player, but I also think he is much closer to his ceiling than Ayton is. Doncic already "gets it". I don't Ayton does, not even a little bit. If Ayton even 50% gets it, he has enough talent to be a top 3 center for the next 12 years or so.

I think Doncic will always be limited by his lesser athleticism, but he will age well and will play for a long time if he wants.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Is Kelly what Joe was prior to leaving Boston? I would contend that he is very close.

No. Kelly is MUCH better than Johnson was leaving Boston. The Suns traded two good role players to get him (Delk and Rodney Rogers) and it took years for that trade to be even remotely worth it.

 

[elindholm]

Here is the thread: https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/ayton-or-doncic.265285/

Ayton is at 92% of the vote. 103 votes to 9 for Doncic. That's pretty damn decisive.

But this board doesn't represent the Suns' decision makers. That vote tally is irrelevant to what ended up happening.

 

[Chaplin]

Your other comment? KO is not JJ? I contend that he is very similar to JJ when he left Boston?

We're talking about the situation, not the player. Is Kelly Oubre of today like the Joe Johnson of 2005? Absolutely not. JJ could conceivably be the 1st option on a team (which he was in Atlanta), KO is arguably only as good as the 3rd option on a 19-win team. BIG difference. Who cares if they were alike when JJ was in Boston? It's irrelevant to the discussion unless you want to overpay KO because you THINK he will be as good or better then Joe Johnson during his contract. I'm not sure we should take that chance--paying him 20-25m a year is a huge risk on a largely unproven player.

 

[1Sun]

Heard an interview with Suns GM Jones that took place on Saturday. Not sure who did the interview but part of it was on this morning's Doug and Wolf show (they are on vacation and had subs).
When asked about Oubre's contract, Jones said that they are woking with his agent on it. There was no optimism in his voice that it was going to get done soon. It was pretty blah. Bottom line is I'm not sure what the heck is going on??

Worse than that, he capped his comments off with "we're just going to continue to build our team". It seemed as though he was resigned to losing Oubre.

 

[Krangodnzr]

But this board doesn't represent the Suns' decision makers. That vote tally is irrelevant to what ended up happening.

Yep....the Suns just drafted Cam Johnson. How many fans had HIM down as the Suns' first round pick?

 

[Chaplin]

Worse than that, he capped his comments off with "we're just going to continue to build our team". It seemed as though he was resigned to losing Oubre.

How? The only team with "significant" cap space left is Atlanta, and they only have 11m. If Oubre wants to play this year, he either takes the qualifying offer or signs a new contract with us, because at $11m, we will match. Unless we do a sign-and-trade, there is no way Oubre is NOT a Phoenix Sun this year.

 

[1Sun]

The best comparison for Johnson is the guy who drafted him, James Jones

Who was never anything more than a good 7th or 8th man.

 

[Chaplin]

Who was never anything more than a good 7th or 8th man.

You weren't going to get better in this draft at #11. It's delusional to think otherwise.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You weren't going to get better in this draft at #11. It's delusional to think otherwise.

Yep. IMO the 6th pick was likely to get you a good 7th or 8th man. I'm not as down on Cam because he has a definable skill that the Suns really need and he is really good at that.

 

[Dr. Jones]

But this board doesn't represent the Suns' decision makers. That vote tally is irrelevant to what ended up happening.

This was very easy...... Sarver wanted the UofA guy. Just like Kerr. Just like always.

 

[1Sun]

How? The only team with "significant" cap space left is Atlanta, and they only have 11m. If Oubre wants to play this year, he either takes the qualifying offer or signs a new contract with us, because at $11m, we will match. Unless we do a sign-and-trade, there is no way Oubre is NOT a Phoenix Sun this year.

Unless Oubre gets turned off by the negotiations and the Suns playing hardball, at which point Oubre plays on the QO and leaves as a UFA at the end of the year, or as you say here he could demand a sign and trade (with the prospect of the QO followed by leaving for nothing being the leverage he uses to force his way out).

 

[1Sun]

You weren't going to get better in this draft at #11. It's delusional to think otherwise.

That wasn't my point. My point is that it is foolish to count on Cam Johnson as a starter or as a core replacement for Oubre.

 

[Chaplin]

That wasn't my point. My point is that it is foolish to count on Cam Johnson as a starter or as a core replacement for Oubre.

Who exactly is counting on that?

 

[1Sun]

Who exactly is counting on that?

The people on this board who are saying Cam will slide right in after Oubre is gone.

 

[Chaplin]

The people on this board who are saying Cam will slide right in after Oubre is gone.

Again, who is saying that?

 

[1Sun]

Again, who is saying that?

82CardsGrad, in this very thread.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kellan Olson (@KellanOlson)
7/8/19, 9:58 AM
James Jones said yesterday there's no further update on discussions with Kelly Oubre Jr.
"We've demonstrated time and time again that he's someone that we love and we value and we'll continue to talk."

Not good

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is just me....... based on my impression of today's "player empowerment" generation.

If I was KO, and the Suns came at me with a 4 year 60 to 80 million dollar deal........ I would absolutely think I was being lowballed. And I would absolutely think twice about working for an organization already deemed as "inept". With the playing time I KNOW I will get, and probably being the #2 or #3 option on a team full of role players...... I would bet on myself having my best year ever....... And go into free agency on an steady upward trajectory.

With those thoughts in mind...... I could easily see him taking the year...... Building his stock (we all know he is going to get a ton of playing time)........ And then going to get the 4 years 110 million I believe he will EASILY get next offseason with that weak ass class of FA's.

These are the exact decisions stupid franchises make. And we are a model of what stupidity and old world thinking looks like.

Give him 4/90 or 100 million and call it a day already. Bidding against ourselves or not.

I believe your numbers would hamstring the organization into putridity forever. $20M/4 for a dude whose greatest achievement is averaging under 17pts/game for less than half a season, who is an average rebounder for his position, who has a negative assist/turnover ratio, who is a below average 3pt shooter, has a pedestrian true shooting percentage, and has no other team clamoring for his services. That’s the epitome of poor decision making.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

KO is going to get Brogdon & Randle money at a minimum IMO.

Why? Based on what? His numbers in no way shape or form compare to either of those more proven players who had multiple teams expressing interest.

 

[Ronin]

I wish Oubre had not gotten hurt last year.
We would know his value to this team.
Instead we are bidding on potential.

 

[Phrazbit]

Is Kelly what Joe was prior to leaving Boston? I would contend that he is very close.

Joe Johnson was a 20 year old rookie when he got traded here. His 3rd season was a breakout year and his 4th year, prior to hitting free agency, he played like an all-star.

I would contend that their situations are almost nothing alike.

Kelly Oubre has played 4 years in the NBA and didn't look particularly good until the final half of his 4th season. Half the league had space to give offer him the kind of contract you're talking about and no one came calling, even in the last few days as all the other free agents dried up we saw Dallas and the Lakers ignore him despite both having more than enough cap space and a need for a player of his type.

Oubre would have to make a dramatic leap for him to even sniff the money you're talking about, I'd be fine with 4 years, 60 million, but even that, based on what he has done in his career, is a serious overpay and a gamble that he will make significant improvements.

 

[GatorAZ]

Joe wanted to be here also.

Sarver wanted Joe to earn the extra 5mill when Bryan C. was telling him to pay it.

History continues to repeat itself in this respect.

That is why you don’t negotiate that close to a player’s max without giving it to him. The Suns should’ve given Joe what he wanted or lowballed him with the difference being 10-12 mil apart. That would be like shorting Booker the max over 10mil (considering his max is twice Joe’s back then). Then they an older and less versatile Q the same deal. No wonder Bryan wanted to **** during a title window.