Kent Somers' Blog notes July 29, 2007

[40yearfan]

Kent Somers' Blog

Baby steps

I just got off the phone a few minutes ago with Rod Graves, who was returning to his office in Tempe after a short dinner break.

Based on conversations with Graves and Joel Segal, the agent for offensive tackle Levi Brown, it doesn't sound like a contract is imminent. But both sides are encouraged at what they call positive discussions.

I'll cover this in tomorrow's paper,but here are some highlights from my talks with Graves.

* Segal's first offer came just recently, which is one reason talks have been somewhat slow, Graves said.

* Segal hasn't moved off that offer much, according to Graves.

*While Gaines Adams, the No. 4 overall pick, agreed to terms this week, his exact contract numbers have yet to filter though to the Cardinals and Segal. The Cardinals have made an offer to Brown, the No. 5 pick, that's fair, based on what they know of Adams' deal, Graves said.

* The details of Adams' deal probably won't be known until Monday, but Graves emphasized that doesn't preclude signing Brown before then.

* As I reported earlier this week, the structure of a deal is in place. It's a six-year deal with an option bonus and escalator clauses. They are negotiating the amount of bonus and the salaries.

*The two sides aren't close on the money. But Graves is optimistic that the gulf between them can be cleared fairly quickly.

EDIT: The date should read July 29, 2007. Got my days mixed up and as usual am a day late and a dollar short.

 

[40yearfan]

* Segal's first offer came just recently, which is one reason talks have been somewhat slow, Graves said.

* Segal hasn't moved off that offer much, according to Graves.

WOW!!! So it isn't all Graves fault that we don't have a contract yet. The Cards had to wait almost 2 weeks for Segal's offer. Whoda thunkit?

 

[Redheart]

WOW!!! So it isn't all Graves fault that we don't have a contract yet. The Cards had to wait almost 2 weeks for Segal's offer. Whoda thunkit?

Graves has to go! There is no excuse for a GM waiting for the agent to respond! Graves should have kept increasing his offer and overpay to the point that all Segal has to say is "ok".

 

[football karma]

virtually all the Graves discussion is so black and white -- when I think his situation is far more complex than people's analysis acknowledge.

One one hand, Segal does have a history of waiting until other slots around are signed. I also believe that he is trying to keep the Brown and Laron Landry deals moving at about the same pace to ensure one contract doesnt compare disfavorably with the other.

At the same time, Rod does have a history with lots of different agents of having his picks miss time. That suggest there is an issue with the organization/him as well.

 

[seesred]

Friday I sent an E-mail to the team. Basically it said, The more things change, the more they stay the same. For 19 years I've bought tickets and aside from 1998, it's been a tough 19 years. The Cards are my team, but I just wonder, Why is it that almost every year we have some picks miss practice due to one thing or another. I used to be the one that stood up for this team no matter what. I would say things to friends like it's getting better every year.

But, you have done it again to me. Where is the deal. We know what the guy just ahead of us got. Why on the day we are leaving for camp, the very first camp of a very promising young head coach is our first round pick not on the bus? Now I'm not going to call you cheap, after all the last few years signing our top guys to extensions, getting in free agents like the Edge, this has shown a willingness to spend.

But you promised me get me a new stadium and we will show you what we are going to do. Sell it out we will be able to compete with anyone, for players, coaches. it will be first class all the way. Rod we have our top pick a potentially solid O-lineman waiting someplace for a call from someone to get his butt up to Flagstaff Arizona to training camp. In the mean time Brown is on edge, not knowing if it's the Cards, his agent or what. GET HIM SIGNED NOW!

GBR
40

 

[Cheesebeef]

WOW!!! So it isn't all Graves fault that we don't have a contract yet. The Cards had to wait almost 2 weeks for Segal's offer. Whoda thunkit?

and why should Rod Graves' word be treated as gospel 40?

 

[joeshmo]

WOW!!! So it isn't all Graves fault that we don't have a contract yet. The Cards had to wait almost 2 weeks for Segal's offer. Whoda thunkit?

I would whole heartedly agree with you if this was the first out of 5 times this has happened. But when this is 5 out of 5 times this has happened, it is not all on the agents head and we can safely assume that there is something wrong with the negotiating tactics of the FO as much as it is on the agents head.

All other teams have to deal with the same agents and the same tactics yet they find ways of getting things done despite those tactics.

I still wont bash completely though if he is in practice by tomorrow's first two a day.

 

[Duckjake]

Our #1 pick in the 2007 draft and the #5 overall is a backup to Ross and Gandy?
That won't last long.

Brown's agent is probably looking at the offensive line roster and figures he has the upper hand in the negotiations. Could be a big difference in the money because of it.

Of course now that I've posted this Brown will sign in the next couple of days for a reasonable amount.

 

[40yearfan]

and why should Rod Graves' word be treated as gospel 40?

Let's just say that there's always 2 sides to every story. Listening to this board take everything said by any reporter or pundit as the gospel truth without even trying to get Graves side of the story shows how many on this board who like to bash Graves will take every opportunity they can to do so. Changes have been made and it's obvious that Graves is improving. It would be nice to see some on here give him the benefit of a doubt and admit that things have changed for the better since he's taken over.

It's gotten down to all the Graves bashers have to bash about are losses and signing draft picks. No more bitching about draft choices, not getting key players to stay or not giving out the bells and whistles on contracts. All they can do is drege up the past. If the Cards start winning this year, a lot of the posters won't have anything to talk about.

 

[Redheart]

... If the Cards start winning this year, a lot of the posters won't have anything to talk about.

Would they be miserably happy?

 

[40yearfan]

I would whole heartedly agree with you if this was the first out of 5 times this has happened. But when this is 5 out of 5 times this has happened, it is not all on the agents head and we can safely assume that there is something wrong with the negotiating tactics of the FO as much as it is on the agents head.

All other teams have to deal with the same agents and the same tactics yet they find ways of getting things done despite those tactics.

I still wont bash completely though if he is in practice by tomorrow's first two a day.

OK Joe, but how many NFL teams have all their drafts in when training camp opens every year? The Cards aren't the only ones having this problem. It's the nature of the NFL.

Being a businessman, I can understand where they are coming from. You have to pay the going rate but you don't want to get the mantle of overpaying just to get your draft picks in on time. It's a fine line to walk and I do believe the Cards are doing as good a job of it as most of the other NFL teams.

 

[football karma]

Graves has been responsible for contracts beginning with the 2003 draft (our favorite -- the Pace/Johnson draft)--

In that time -- I think only one of the five first round picks during his tenure were signed prior to camp opening (Pace I believe).

At the same time, Leinart last year was the first pick where the holdout lasted longer than a week.

For holdouts a week or less, I think the fans get more worked up on these things than anybody else.

 

[40yearfan]

Would they be miserably happy?

Or happily miserable?

 

[slanidrac16]

One reason we are always one of the last teams to sign our #1 pick is because we are ALWAYS drafting in the top 8 picks. The year we draft 20th will be the year our 1st pick is in on time.

That being said, 2 0r 3 days of practice will not prevent Brown from winning the starting spot IF he is as good as we all hope he is.

 

[Cheesebeef]

OK Joe, but how many NFL teams have all their drafts in when training camp opens every year? The Cards aren't the only ones having this problem.

they are the only ones who have had this exact same problem for FIVE YEARS though. This holdout isn't occuring in a vaccuum like the above implies 40.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Let's just say that there's always 2 sides to every story. Listening to this board take everything said by any reporter or pundit as the gospel truth without even trying to get Graves side of the story shows how many on this board who like to bash Graves will take every opportunity they can to do so. Changes have been made and it's obvious that Graves is improving. It would be nice to see some on here give him the benefit of a doubt and admit that things have changed for the better since he's taken over.

how so? In wins? Nope. In getting our first round draft picks in on time? Nope. With depth along the offensive/defensive lines/LB or CB? Nope. So where's the obvious improvement you speak of? Because we haven't seen it been manifested on the field and if there was OBVIOUS improvement, don't you think that is where we would have seen some of it?

It's gotten down to all the Graves bashers have to bash about are losses and signing draft picks. No more bitching about draft choices, not getting key players to stay or not giving out the bells and whistles on contracts. All they can do is drege up the past.

uh, 40, how is a holdout RIGHT NOW dredging up the past? How is having little depth on the offensive line/defensive line/LB or at CB RIGHT NOW dredging up the past? "Bashers" don't need to dredge up the past because the present still has glaring problems.

 

[Duckjake]

how so? In wins? Nope. In getting our first round draft picks in on time? Nope. With depth along the offensive/defensive lines/LB or CB? Nope. So where's the obvious improvement you speak of? Because we haven't seen it been manifested on the field and if there was OBVIOUS improvement, don't you think that is where we would have seen some of it?



uh, 40, how is a holdout RIGHT NOW dredging up the past? How is having little depth on the offensive line/defensive line/LB or at CB RIGHT NOW dredging up the past? "Bashers" don't need to dredge up the past because the present still has glaring problems.

There are a few of us who didn't think that trading a 6 year starter on the offensive line and the #5 pick in this year's draft for a 2nd string offensive tackle was such a good move either.

 

[cardsloco]

One reason we are always one of the last teams to sign our #1 pick is because we are ALWAYS drafting in the top 8 picks. The year we draft 20th will be the year our 1st pick is in on time.

That being said, 2 0r 3 days of practice will not prevent Brown from winning the starting spot IF he is as good as we all hope he is.

Good post, very fairly stated.

 

[40yearfan]

how so? In wins? Nope. In getting our first round draft picks in on time? Nope. With depth along the offensive/defensive lines/LB or CB? Nope. So where's the obvious improvement you speak of? Because we haven't seen it been manifested on the field and if there was OBVIOUS improvement, don't you think that is where we would have seen some of it?



uh, 40, how is a holdout RIGHT NOW dredging up the past? How is having little depth on the offensive line/defensive line/LB or at CB RIGHT NOW dredging up the past? "Bashers" don't need to dredge up the past because the present still has glaring problems.

So you think there has been no improvement in the way the Cards operate? You think it's still the "same ole Cards"? Typical answer. "We haven't won, so nobody is trying." Open your eyes Cheesy.

No one is calling them cheap anymore. Contracts are being extended and the quality of our players has had a serious upgrade. If you can't see any improvement, it's because you don't want to see it. It's more fun to complain than it is to compliment, especially to people who are prepetually in a bad mood.

 

[40yearfan]

There are a few of us who didn't think that trading a 6 year starter on the offensive line and the #5 pick in this year's draft for a 2nd string offensive tackle was such a good move either.

And then again, there are some of us who think it was a great move. We should all know by December.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Coming down the far stretch it's cheesebeef by two lengths.

 

[40yearfan]

Coming down the far stretch it's cheesebeef by two lengths.

Too bad he's headed in the wrong direction.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So you think there has been no improvement in the way the Cards operate? You think it's still the "same ole Cards"? Typical answer. "We haven't won, so nobody is trying."

No one is calling them cheap anymore. Contracts are being extended and the quality of our players has had a serious upgrade. If you can't see any improvement, it's because you don't want to see it. It's more fun to complain than it is to compliment, especially to people who are prepetually in a bad mood.

ah, you know it's almost football season when 40 year starts insulting people. I love ya 40!

 

[40yearfan]

ah, you know it's almost football season when 40 year starts insulting people. I love ya 40!

Right back at ya, ya big lug.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Too bad he's headed in the wrong direction.

40, what were our problems going into last season? Depth/questionable starters at o-line, d-line, lb and cb and our first round pick was a holdout. Now, tell me how things are different when this year the problems we're facing are depth at o-line, d-line, lb and cb and our first round pick isn't in camp again.

40, you've been saying the same thing for 5 years and I've been saying the same thing for five years and the result is always the same. We suck, sadly.