Kerr, time to bit the bullet

[elindholm]

Fans are always so smart after the fact........

Here's my recent scorecard:

Joe Johnson and the infamous $5 million gap: I said the Suns were correct to hold the line. And I still believe that. The Suns had already come up more than they wanted to. If you negotiate for quite a while and say, "Okay, this is absolutely as high as I can go," you have to stick to that. Otherwise, word will get out and you'll never be able to negotiate successfully with anyone anymore. At the time, Johnson did not look like a $50M/5yr player to me, nor to most people on this board. It turned out poorly, but I don't fault the Suns.

Barbosa extension: I was in favor of it.

Diaw extension: I was in favor of it, but that was because I misinterpreted it as a sign that the Suns were willing to be major luxury-tax spenders. Had I anticipated the payroll-slashing that was around the corner, I would have said that the Suns could not extend Diaw without a plan to move out another big salary (the preference of course being Marion, whom I had wanted out for years).

Kurt Thomas salary/draft pick dump: I said it was terrible.

James Jones salary dump: I said it was terrible.

Other first-round draft picks sold: I said they were all terrible.

Kerr hire: I said it was very questionable, given that he had no experience. I questioned those on this board who were interpreting his "nice guy" image and relative skill as a commentator as predictors of GM competence. (Incidentally, it is absolutely hilarious to me that many of these same posters are still pimping Eddie Johnson as the next coach, which would be an identical situation. As Errntknght just pointed out, Porter's biggest failing is that he simply doesn't know enough. Johnson would know more?)

O'Neal trade: I said it was risky, but worth a shot. I didn't really expect it to work, but the team was going nowhere.

D'Antoni's forced departure: I said it was time. He had an irreparable rift with management, and his "system" had been given at least two excellent opportunities to succeed, coming up short both times.

Porter: I thought it was a good selection, given the Suns' priorities at the time.

So you can decide for yourself how smart I was.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Here's my recent scorecard:

Joe Johnson and the infamous $5 million gap: I said the Suns were correct to hold the line. And I still believe that. The Suns had already come up more than they wanted to. If you negotiate for quite a while and say, "Okay, this is absolutely as high as I can go," you have to stick to that. Otherwise, word will get out and you'll never be able to negotiate successfully with anyone anymore. At the time, Johnson did not look like a $50M/5yr player to me, nor to most people on this board.

this is really my only disagreement with you. mostly because it wasn't a 50/5 but a 50/6 year deal that was being bandied about. I thought it was pretty obvious that's what he was worth but oh well.

Kerr hire: I said it was very questionable, given that he had no experience. I questioned those on this board who were interpreting his "nice guy" image and relative skill as a commentator as predictors of GM competence. (Incidentally, it is absolutely hilarious to me that many of these same posters are still pimping Eddie Johnson as the next coach, which would be an identical situation. As Errntknght just pointed out, Porter's biggest failing is that he simply doesn't know enough. Johnson would know more?)

agreed. The Eddie Johnson for coach peeps just make me chuckle.

Porter: I thought it was a good selection, given the Suns' priorities at the time.

okay, I guess two disagreements. Porter may have been the best of the lot, but holy cow was it an ugly lot to begin with. I understood firing (or doing whatever they did with) DA, especially since he stubbornly heeded Kerr's pleas to at least coach any kind of defense, but putting in a guy who's claim to fame was getting the Bucks to the 8 seed in the woeful eastern conference once and sitting on the bench behind Flip Saunders coaching a perpetually underperforming Pistons team didn't make much sense either.

 

[msdundee]

Did your obsessive hatred of Shaq finally drove you to bug his ass? oh wait, you must have your own crew recording Shaq's every move and must have heard him go "F this am going in", or how else would you have known he wasn't instructed to get ready to return to the game. Your propensity to blame everything on Shaq, at every opportunity on this forum is befuddling.

Suns No Match for Kobe, Lakers -- Nov 21, 2008 (AZCentral -- Sports)

"Suns center Shaquille O'Neal was his usual spry self after a rest, but the Suns lost for the first time after a two-day rest. After Lakers center Andrew Bynum posted up Amare Stoudemire, Shaquille O'Neal got off the bench, walked by Porter and said, "I'm going in." Three minutes later, the Suns led again."

 

[Griffin]

putting in a guy who's claim to fame was getting the Bucks to the 8 seed in the woeful eastern conference once and sitting on the bench behind Flip Saunders coaching a perpetually underperforming Pistons team didn't make much sense either.

It has been reported at the time that the Suns would not be going after more experienced coaches because they were out of their price range. Porter was hired partially because he came cheap.

 

[Skkorpion]

In the short term, when it goes bad, the crap blankets everybody and blame is earned and shared by many. Long term, it always reflects the quality at the top.

How good is ownership? It's all on Sarver, as it was all on Colangelo. Jerry Colangelo made lots of mistakes but soon recognized them and fixed them. He constantly strived to win.

Sarver's record is mixed so far. If he's good, he'll dig us out. If not, the Suns are in trouble, particularly in this economic climate.

 

[Mainstreet]

It has been reported at the time that the Suns would not be going after more experienced coaches because they were out of their price range. Porter was hired partially because he came cheap.

You are quite correct and on the flip side DA became too expensive. Kerr must have thought DA wasn't going to take the Suns further than a lower tier coach. A number of Suns fans bought into this premise as well. As Kerr has made all the wrong decisions it seems more than probable that he made another huge mistake in pushing DA out. When will Sarver realize the GM and the decisions he makes, makes or breaks a team? Actually I think the Suns are stuck with Kerr as GM as long as Sarver owns the team because he is Sarver's henchman.

 

[AfroSuns]

Suns No Match for Kobe, Lakers -- Nov 21, 2008 (AZCentral -- Sports)

"Suns center Shaquille O'Neal was his usual spry self after a rest, but the Suns lost for the first time after a two-day rest. After Lakers center Andrew Bynum posted up Amare Stoudemire, Shaquille O'Neal got off the bench, walked by Porter and said, "I'm going in." Three minutes later, the Suns led again."

There is nothing in that report to imply there wasn't any prior agreement between a coach and his player, that when you feel rested enough you can get back in. Maybe he told the officials I am going in" after he was told to.
Was there any other report that suggested the coach was mad at him. could go either way, yes, it could be Shaq and his antics or it could be nothing, it is obvious most of the veterans with the exception of Hill, dont respect Porter or how else would you explain Nash and Raja whining about the system. Even Amare is criticizing porter more than Shaq.

 

[AfroSuns]

I wonder if Popovitch's comment to Steve Kerr after he (Kerr) talked about Duncan getting off the bench during the 2006-2007 playoffs in his online article, was a huge factor in his decision take the GM position. If it was, talk about the Spurs screwing the Suns big time

 

[cobbler]

Did your obsessive hatred of Shaq finally drove you to bug his ass? oh wait, you must have your own crew recording Shaq's every move and must have heard him go "F this am going in", or how else would you have known he wasn't instructed to get ready to return to the game. Your propensity to blame everything on Shaq, at every opportunity on this forum is befuddling.

Maybe you are pissed at him for leaving LA and not give you the opportunities to win more titles? Whatever your reasons are, Shaq, is what he is; Shaq! and he is in no way responsible for the ongoing Suns Woes.

I know what I read... I don't need a recording device. Maybe he was instructed, who knows? But the timing after losing a few rebounds and jumping up and doing so along with his "history" with other teams suggest otherwise.

It is no secret that I am not a Shaq fan as you pointed out. I was NOT pissed he left (was shipped out) of LA. Look where we are now because of it. I would have rather shipped him out the year befor and gotten more to be honest.

I never said Shaq was responsible for ALL the Suns woes. Certainly, as many have stated, the prior dealings created the environment. I was suggesting that the trade for Shaq was a stupid one that in no way would counter those previous mistakes and a knee jerk reaction to the Lakers obtaining Gasol. It was, IMO, the blunder that could not easly be reversed. It was a reference to the comments blaming Porter for all the Woes. Porter is what he is....and he inherited a team that has no identity or direction. He is trying to do just that. It's up to the players to buy into it or not. IMO, 20 games is too short to decide.

Just wait... the worse it gets, the more you will see of the real Shaq and it's going to get ugly. Should we have a over/under on the implosion date?

....and again, you can blow my comments off as just my hatred for Shaq, but his history says otherwise.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It has been reported at the time that the Suns would not be going after more experienced coaches because they were out of their price range. Porter was hired partially because he came cheap.

i know that. I just get tired of writing something like that and having to argue with people barking at me about Sarver's not cheap! Our payroll... blah, blah, blah... although those people are few and far between by now... thank god.

 

[AfroSuns]

Just wait... the worse it gets, the more you will see of the real Shaq and it's going to get ugly. Should we have a over/under on the implosion date?

....and again, you can blow my comments off as just my hatred for Shaq, but his history says otherwise.

See that is the thing, i can understand a Magic fan getting ticked off at Shaq more than i would a Laker fan, seeing how he didn't win them anything, but i can still relate a little to an unhappy Laker fan. What would be stupid is a Suns fan feeling the same way, let's just say we ougth to know what we are getting. Its like going to a comedy club and buying a front row seat, then you get annoyed for getting ribbed. Understandable if you are new to stand-up comedy, if not, get a backrow dimly lit corner if you cant take the unwelcomed attention.
My reply is not predicated on what Shaq will do after he leaves here, i am only concerned with his current effort/output on this team, he may not be consistent but he is not doing bad at all.

It is no secret that I am not a Shaq fan as you pointed out. I was NOT pissed he left (was shipped out) of LA. Look where we are now because of it.

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I would have rather shipped him out the year befor and gotten more to be honest.

Oh yeah, the Lakers are a hot team right now but a not too distant history; 2006-2007 season should remind us not to count our chicks........

Dallas offset by Golden state after being in the finals the previous season is one and a Suns start of 1-5 to begin the season and later beating the Lakers in first round is another that vividly comes to mind, not to mention the Kobe Lakers are notorious for starting hot and fizzling out. Heck they narrowly missed an offset yesterday in the form of washington Wizards (3-14).

 

[cobbler]

See that is the thing, i can understand a Magic fan getting ticked off at Shaq more than i would a Laker fan, seeing how he didn't win them anything, but i can still relate a little to an unhappy Laker fan. What would be stupid is a Suns fan feeling the same way, let's just say we ougth to know what we are getting. Its like going to a comedy club and buying a front row seat, then you get annoyed for getting ribbed. Understandable if you are new to stand-up comedy, if not, get a backrow dimly lit corner if you cant take the unwelcomed attention.
My reply is not predicated on what Shaq will do after he leaves here, i am only concerned with his current effort/output on this team, he may not be consistent but he is not doing bad at all.


Oh yeah, the Lakers are a hot team right now but a not too distant history; 2006-2007 season should remind us not to count our chicks........

Dallas offset by Golden state after being in the finals the previous season is one and a Suns start of 1-5 to begin the season and later beating the Lakers in first round is another that vividly comes to mind, not to mention the Kobe Lakers are notorious for starting hot and fizzling out. Heck they narrowly missed an offset yesterday in the form of washington Wizards (3-14).

Oh there is no doubt we have work to do. But we are also a young team with some new pieces. What we lack is the KILLER instinct. Hopefully we will get one soon. Anyway, I absolutely appreciate Shaq contributions to our titles and have often said so. I just hated all the drama, the lack of work ethic, and the BS when he did go. I honestly hope you guys dont have to go thru it... but I am getting the feeling you will. Time will tell. I will admit that he has surprised me a bit as far as his being in better shape this year. I'll be curious to see what its like next year if your troubles continue this year. Time will tell i guess...