Kevin Garnett Thread

[sharkman]

KG resorts to fadeaway jumpers a lot, it's the biggest knock on him that offensively he is soft.

That's why I think Amare+KG would be perfect. Ones weakness is the others strength.

I'm with you...if Duncan and Robinson can coexist, so can KG & Amare.

Their roles may adjust to accomplish team goals...but at this point in KG's career I don't think he's worried about how many points he scores...
...he wants the ring so he won't join Malone as dominant players who have never won a championship.

 

[Ciani]

And looking at the future we would be totally screwer 3-4 years down the line, we would be left with almost nothing and a rough road ahead of us even getting back in the playoff picture while right now Amare is the guy that makes sure we should be good for the next 10 years.

I dont agree with you about Garnett who I think would be nearly as good scorer as Amare with Nash, while his defence and rebounding is MUCH better. But your last point is right on, we would trade our future which is maybe too much risk to take.

 

[sharkman]

Isn't Amare a BYC1 player? And does that make him a BYC2 player this Summer?

 

[Divide Et Impera]

I dont agree with you about Garnett who I think would be nearly as good scorer as Amare with Nash, while his defence and rebounding is MUCH better. But your last point is right on, we would trade our future which is maybe too much risk to take.

Pfffft....

I would sacrifice our "future" for a championship NOW. We've had, what, 39 years of "future"?

If it took Amare to get KG and we kept #4 or at least got back #7 somehow, I then trade Marion to CHA for Wallace (s&t) and Felton and Carroll, or something like that for depth. I would then still draft Horford (at #4) or go for Thornton at #7.

I would hate to lose Amare, but I would certainly do it for a championship in 2008....

 

[Ciani]

Pfffft....
I would sacrifice our "future" for a championship NOW.

Yeah, if that championship would be "sure" with KG instead of Amare, me too. But thats not the case.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Might as well lock this thread. Without the #4-#6, we have not a chance in hell of making anything for KG happening....

 

[slinslin]

Well we have completely unprotected pick from Atlanta in 2008 that should have about as much value still, since Atlanta is not in the top 2.

 

[elindholm]

Well we have completely unprotected pick from Atlanta in 2008 that should have about as much value still, since Atlanta is not in the top 2.

Nonsense. Atlanta has the #3 and #11 picks in "the deepest draft in a decade," and their core was already decent. They are at worst a late lottery team next season, and the draft class next year won't be as strong.

The Garnett dream is officially dead.

 

[slinslin]

And they will most likely get sucked into picking Conley at #3.

I don't really see how Atlanta is necessarily going to be that much better. They would have to find instant impact players in the draft first of all.

I mean we could still throw out a Marion, Thomas, Barbosa for KG and Blount trade or something like that.

 

[dodie53]

bye KG..

 

[Joe Mama]

The Kevin Garnett dream is not dead. You just aren't going to have Amare Stoudemire and him on the same team. I knows slin does not want to believe this, but this year's team would have been much better than it was if you swap out Amare Stoudemire for KG.

Despite popular belief KG is a better offensive player than Amare Stoudemire. You guys who think this is still the Amare Stoudemire of a couple years ago need to get out of the past and into the present. At least 75% of his scoring comes from Steve Nash or is created by somebody else. KG can do that, and he's much better at creating his own offense now.

But that's not really the point, is it? The Phoenix Suns problems are not on offense. They had no Amare Stoudemire a couple years ago and had no problems scoring. Their problems are on defense and the boards, and that's where KG is a significant improvement.

Let's not forget here that the San Antonio Spurs "allow" Amare Stoudemire to go off like that by design. Don't get me wrong. They don't make it easy on him. But their defensive attention is not on Amare Stoudemire. They are focused almost entirely on stopping Steve Nash and the three-point shooters.

While I would never go as far as to call it likely that Amare Stoudemire gets traded for Kevin Garnett or even decent chances I do think it's certainly possible. All of these rumors are not BS.

They mentioned a three-way trade with Chicago on PTI today. That trade would have Amare going to Chicago and KG coming here. I'm not sure what the package they had going to Minnesota was.

I'm definitely one who thinks they KG would make this team better for at least the next year or two.

Joe

 

[slinslin]

Garnett shoots under 40% against the Spurs did you know that? And San Antonio plays the same defense against them as well, they always stay on the shooters and make you beat them off the dribble. You have to either be able to penetrate and finish over Duncan or shoot off the dribble. Whoever Duncan is guarding will get an open midrange jumper all game.

We had no problems scoring last year, I don't care about the regular season, but to say we had no problems scoring when it mattered against the Lakers and Clippers isn't true. We struggled a lot, we needed Tim Thomas to be huge for us and Doris Sheaw.

 

[dodie53]

KG would make this team better for at least the next year or two.

Joe

after KG leaves, then what?

 

[sharkman]

How does Amare being a BYC player affect the trade?

 

[Chaplin]

after KG leaves, then what?

Our finances would improve dramatically.

 

[dodie53]

Our finances would improve dramatically.

then the team is up to the hands of LB and diaw..

and if kobe will opt-out, the suns might sign him..
=)

 

[elindholm]

How does Amare being a BYC player affect the trade?

It doesn't. The most recent CBA did away with BYC2, so as of July 1 or whatever the magic day is, Stoudemire is no longer a BYC player at all.

 

[Joe Mama]

Garnett shoots under 40% against the Spurs did you know that? And San Antonio plays the same defense against them as well, they always stay on the shooters and make you beat them off the dribble. You have to either be able to penetrate and finish over Duncan or shoot off the dribble. Whoever Duncan is guarding will get an open midrange jumper all game.

We had no problems scoring last year, I don't care about the regular season, but to say we had no problems scoring when it mattered against the Lakers and Clippers isn't true. We struggled a lot, we needed Tim Thomas to be huge for us and Doris Sheaw.

Give me a break. KG also doesn't have Steve Nash feeding him right under the basket. He doesn't have the Steve Nash pick and roll. Amare Stoudemire wouldn't look any better if he was playing along with the rest of that Minnesota squad against San Antonio. His shooting percentage would drop dramatically against San Antonio if he was trying to create everything for himself.

Joe

 

[slinslin]

At least Garnett being traded is much more likely now.

Minnesota is DONE. They need to rebuild.

Their division rivals are
Utah - Currently in the WCF
Denver - Iverson, Anthony, Nene, Camby
Portland - Adds Oden to a talented team
Seattle - Adds Durant to a talented team

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Garnett shoots under 40% against the Spurs did you know that? And San Antonio plays the same defense against them as well, they always stay on the shooters and make you beat them off the dribble. You have to either be able to penetrate and finish over Duncan or shoot off the dribble. Whoever Duncan is guarding will get an open midrange jumper all game.

We had no problems scoring last year, I don't care about the regular season, but to say we had no problems scoring when it mattered against the Lakers and Clippers isn't true. We struggled a lot, we needed Tim Thomas to be huge for us and Doris Sheaw.

Kevin Garnett is a fantastic scorer. The only reason that he might shoot a bad percentage is that he has absolutely nobody else on his team. Because San Antonio stays on our shooters so much, he should be able to run wild.

Also, KG is worlds ahead of Amare in passing, rebounding, and defense. At this point he's a much more complete player and gives us our best chance at a title.

 

[sharkman]

Elindholm...or anyone else who knows the answer...

...how are trades involving Diaw (who becomes a BYC player) affected if he is traded to a team under the cap?

 

[Covert Rain]

The Kevin Garnett dream is not dead. You just aren't going to have Amare Stoudemire and him on the same team. I knows slin does not want to believe this, but this year's team would have been much better than it was if you swap out Amare Stoudemire for KG.

Thanks. I needed a good laugh after tonight's disaster.

 

[elindholm]

Elindholm...or anyone else who knows the answer...

...how are trades involving Diaw (who becomes a BYC player) affected if he is traded to a team under the cap?

I'm about 95% sure this is right, but someone may correct me:

A player's BYC status matters only to the team that is trading him away, not the team that is receiving him. So, for salary-calculation purposes, Diaw's new team would be taking on a $9 million salary. Just as with any other trade, they'd have to either have that much room under the cap or be simultaneously trading out enough salary to get within the 25% fudge factor.

For Phoenix, however, they get to count only half of his salary, so $4.5 million, as "outgoing." That means that, since they are over the cap, they could take back only ($4.5 million) * (125%) + ($100,000), or around $5.7 million.

This is why trades with BYC players are so difficult. If the partner team is also over the cap, they have to send out enough salary to make room for Diaw, which would mean about $7.1 million under the fudge factor rule. But if Phoenix can take only $5.7 million back, there's no way to make the numbers agree.

It's easier if the partner team is under the cap, if more players are involved in the trade (to bring the numbers higher and thus the percentages closer), or (sometimes) if a third team is involved.

 

[Ollie]

Well, Eric's explanation is pretty much complete.

BYC players are almost impossible to trade straight-up in a two-team trade, (especially when their contracts figures have significantly grown with the extension, because their outgoing trade value will be 50 % of the new contract and thus it will be virtually impossible to make the numbers work) even if your trade partner is under the cap (you'd need a team at least 3.3M under the cap to absorb Diaw's contract straight up).

So you need to find a third team and even a fourth team with enough space under the cap or trade exceptions to take another players and balance the main trade. Or you do a giga trade with 3 or 4 players from each team.

 

[elindholm]

Phoenix gets
Kevin Garnett ($22 million next season, expires 2009)
#7 pick (Joakim Noah)

Minnesota gets
Amare Stoudemire (13.3, 2011)
Boris Diaw (9.0, 2012)
Eric Piatkowski (1.2, 2008)
#24 pick

Nash/Bell/Marion/Garnett/Noah
Barbosa/Jones/Thomas/Banks/#29

That's a Stoudemire trade I could live with.