Kevin Garnett Thread

[Covert Rain]

Phoenix gets
Kevin Garnett ($22 million next season, expires 2009)
#7 pick (Joakim Noah)

Minnesota gets
Amare Stoudemire (13.3, 2011)
Boris Diaw (9.0, 2012)
Eric Piatkowski (1.2, 2008)
#24 pick

Nash/Bell/Marion/Garnett/Noah
Barbosa/Jones/Thomas/Banks/#29

That's a Stoudemire trade I could live with.

Oh dear god NO. Any team with any amount of size would bum rush through KG and Marion like twigs. I also think Noah will never amount to much in the NBA. The only way I like any trade is if it keeps Amare & KG together.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Oh dear god NO. Any team with any amount of size would bum rush through KG and Marion like twigs. I also think Noah will never amount to much in the NBA. The only way I like any trade is if it keeps Amare & KG together.

I don't quite follow. Amare is smaller than KG.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't quite follow. Amare is smaller than KG.

It's not about height. I have watched KG go up against bigger players (with some weight behind them) and he gets backed down like a puppy who just got smacked by a newspaper. At least Amare has the strength to keep some guys off the block. Now your going to depend on KG, Marion and Noah? No freaking thank you. We would have a tall front line but not a very strong one.

 

[elindholm]

The only way I like any trade is if it keeps Amare & KG together.

Me too, but the Suns don't have the pieces to make a Marion/Garnett trade credible anymore.

 

[Covert Rain]

The only way I like any trade is if it keeps Amare & KG together.

Me too, but the Suns don't have the pieces to make a Marion/Garnett trade credible anymore.

I hope the Suns can get creative somehow. We need to change something. I am still not convinced we don't have enough to trade because I think everybody is way over exaggerating what it would take to get KG. That's just my opinion. I guess time will tell.

 

[SirStefan32]

The only way I like any trade is if it keeps Amare & KG together.

Me too. I would love to get those two guys, keep Nash and also get Kobe Bryant. It's not gonna happen though.

 

[Covert Rain]

Me too. I would love to get those two guys, keep Nash and also get Kobe Bryant. It's not gonna happen though.

Why your at it, throw in Lebron.

 

[Ollie]

Phoenix gets
Kevin Garnett ($22 million next season, expires 2009)
#7 pick (Joakim Noah)

Minnesota gets
Amare Stoudemire (13.3, 2011)
Boris Diaw (9.0, 2012)
Eric Piatkowski (1.2, 2008)
#24 pick

Nash/Bell/Marion/Garnett/Noah
Barbosa/Jones/Thomas/Banks/#29

That's a Stoudemire trade I could live with.

Me too, but it doesn't give enough relief to the TWolves cap, I'm afraid. In fact, they're going to cap hell for the next 4-5 years.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

It's not about height. I have watched KG go up against bigger players (with some weight behind them) and he gets backed down like a puppy who just got smacked by a newspaper. At least Amare has the strength to keep some guys off the block. Now your going to depend on KG, Marion and Noah? No freaking thank you. We would have a tall front line but not a very strong one.

KG is heavier than Amare too. While his softness has been an issue in the past, he's helped neutralize it, and he's worlds ahead of Amare defensively, and much more tenacious on the boards. Agreed on Noah though, I'd much rather have a guy like Julian Wright if we trade Diaw.

How can you say that we'd be worse off with Garnett?

Scoring: KG = Amare. Both are twenty point per game guys.

Rebounding: KG > Amare. KG is one of the top three rebounders in the league.

Passing: KG > Amare. Amare has definitely been working on it, but KG draws so much attention offensively and he has great court sense for a big guy.

Defense: KG > Amare. KG is probably the best defensive big man in the league not named Duncan. Amare is mediocre at best.

So how are we worse off with Garnett?

 

[slinslin]

KG is NOT equal to Amare in terms of scoring he just isn't. He resorts to fadeaway jumpers a lot, he only gets to the line about half as much as Amare even with the limited number of FGA this season for Amare.

Rebounding is a wash if Amare rebounds like he did in the playoffs where he was the best rebounder in the league, save Duncan.

Ever wondered why Minnesota is bad? KG isn't a guy that can really take over the 4th quarter for your team and score 20 ppg to win the game. Minnesota fans are dying for someone to take that pressure off of Garnett because Garnett as good as he is, he is not a dominant scorer and never will be. He has other qualities but if you replaced Amare with Garnett we would still struggle against the Spurs specifically. We would be worse offensively against the Spurs when we already struggle against them anyway, we would be better defensively on Duncan but that balances out that we lose on offense.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

KG is NOT equal to Amare in terms of scoring he just isn't. He resorts to fadeaway jumpers a lot, he only gets to the line about half as much as Amare even with the limited number of FGA this season for Amare.

Rebounding is a wash if Amare rebounds like he did in the playoffs where he was the best rebounder in the league, save Duncan.

Ever wondered why Minnesota is bad? KG isn't a guy that can really take over the 4th quarter for your team and score 20 ppg to win the game.

Garnett might take jumpers, but he makes more of them. He'd be absolutely deadly in our system, just look at how he played against us this year.

Amare had about nine RPG this year, and Garnett had twelve. Amare might be a good rebounder, but Garnett is elite in that category.

The reason Minnesota is so bad is because they have an awful team around Garnett. Besides, Garnett is and always will be a complimentary player. We already have our star in Steve Nash, we don't need anybody who can take over a game.

 

[slinslin]

77% of Garnett FGA are jumpers and he makes 43.4%.
45% of Amare's FGA are jumpers and he makes 43.6%. Nevermind it was certainly a lot higher in the 2nd half of the season and playoffs.

On close in shots Amare shoots 58.1% compared to Garnett 55.5%.

Kevin Garnett draws fouls on 12% of his shots.

Amare Stoudemire draws fouls on 23% of his shots.

Garnett is not as good of a scorer as Amare, he simply isn't. If he was he would be considered better than Duncan.

Steve Nash is NOT our star to take over games offensively, I am sorry. He is our playmaker, making him a scorer is a last resort for the Suns. He also is not a guy like Stoudemire who gets the other team in the penalty quick and draws fouls.

Against San Antonio Steve Nash will struggle because he has a tough time finishing over Duncan, Marion, Bell, Diaw and Barbosa will be shut down. That would leave us with Kevin Garnett being forced to carry the scoring load against the Spurs, I'd rather have Amare for that and exchange a guy like Marion who is uneffective when someone stays on his feet the entire game.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

77% of Garnett FGA are jumpers and he makes 43.4%.
45% of Amare's FGA are jumpers and he makes 43.6%. Nevermind it was certainly a lot higher in the 2nd half of the season and playoffs.

On close in shots Amare shoots 58.1% compared to Garnett 55.5%.

Kevin Garnett draws fouls on 12% of his shots.

Amare Stoudemire draws fouls on 23% of his shots.

Garnett is not as good of a scorer as Amare, he simply isn't. If he was he would be considered better than Duncan.

You have to factor in how much of Amare's percentage comes from playing with Phoenix. Garnett has nobody else on his team and constantly draws double and triple teams. If you look at how he performed against us this year, I think he'd be great.

That said, I'll give the slight nod to Amare on offense because of his ability to draw contact. Unfortunately the last problem that this team has is generating offense. Garnett is still a much better all around player, and his two biggest strengths (defense and rebounding) coincide with our biggest weaknesses.

 

[slinslin]

Without Amare we are DEAD LAST in freethrow attempts that is a fact.

We didn't lose to the Spurs simply because we are bad defensively. We lost to the Spurs because Marion, Barbosa, Bell and Diaw were pretty much easily shut down by the Spurs offensively. We struggled big time scoring against them.

 

[hcsilla]

The Kevin Garnett dream is not dead. You just aren't going to have Amare Stoudemire and him on the same team. I knows slin does not want to believe this, but this year's team would have been much better than it was if you swap out Amare Stoudemire for KG.

Despite popular belief KG is a better offensive player than Amare Stoudemire. You guys who think this is still the Amare Stoudemire of a couple years ago need to get out of the past and into the present. At least 75% of his scoring comes from Steve Nash or is created by somebody else. KG can do that, and he's much better at creating his own offense now.

But that's not really the point, is it? The Phoenix Suns problems are not on offense. They had no Amare Stoudemire a couple years ago and had no problems scoring. Their problems are on defense and the boards, and that's where KG is a significant improvement.

Let's not forget here that the San Antonio Spurs "allow" Amare Stoudemire to go off like that by design. Don't get me wrong. They don't make it easy on him. But their defensive attention is not on Amare Stoudemire. They are focused almost entirely on stopping Steve Nash and the three-point shooters.

While I would never go as far as to call it likely that Amare Stoudemire gets traded for Kevin Garnett or even decent chances I do think it's certainly possible. All of these rumors are not BS.

They mentioned a three-way trade with Chicago on PTI today. That trade would have Amare going to Chicago and KG coming here. I'm not sure what the package they had going to Minnesota was.

I'm definitely one who thinks they KG would make this team better for at least the next year or two.

Yes.

 

[hcsilla]

Phoenix gets
Kevin Garnett ($22 million next season, expires 2009)
#7 pick (Joakim Noah)

Minnesota gets
Amare Stoudemire (13.3, 2011)
Boris Diaw (9.0, 2012)
Eric Piatkowski (1.2, 2008)
#24 pick

That would be a fantastic deal for us.

I would do it even without #24 and #7.

 

[Eastern_Sun]

KG is NOT equal to Amare in terms of scoring he just isn't. He resorts to fadeaway jumpers a lot, he only gets to the line about half as much as Amare even with the limited number of FGA this season for Amare.

Rebounding is a wash if Amare rebounds like he did in the playoffs where he was the best rebounder in the league, save Duncan.

Ever wondered why Minnesota is bad? KG isn't a guy that can really take over the 4th quarter for your team and score 20 ppg to win the game. Minnesota fans are dying for someone to take that pressure off of Garnett because Garnett as good as he is, he is not a dominant scorer and never will be. He has other qualities but if you replaced Amare with Garnett we would still struggle against the Spurs specifically. We would be worse offensively against the Spurs when we already struggle against them anyway, we would be better defensively on Duncan but that balances out that we lose on offense.

I remember the Wolves battling the Lakers in the playoffs a few years ago and Garnett was an animal. The wolves have also given the Suns fits and KG is a big part of it. I remember going to a game last year where KG blocked what would of been Nash's game winning shot as time expired. Minnesota sucks because of the Joe Smith fiasco. it's been hard for them to get a good team around KG.

Bottom line is that KG would make the suns a great team. The thing that really impresses me about KG is his passion. The dude really wants to win. You can't teach that.

 

[nashman]

That would be a fantastic deal for us.

I would do it even without #24 and #7.

Um no that would not be a good deal for us! the #7 is the only thing that makes it a possibility! Trading Stat and Boris and whoever for garnett is a stupid trade on our part. The #7 would HAVE to be included for it not to be a joke!

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Without Amare we are DEAD LAST in freethrow attempts that is a fact.

We didn't lose to the Spurs simply because we are bad defensively. We lost to the Spurs because Marion, Barbosa, Bell and Diaw were pretty much easily shut down by the Spurs offensively. We struggled big time scoring against them.

Garnett can create his own shot just as well if not better than Stoudemire can, and unlike the rest of our team, doesn't need a dominant point guard to put up the numbers.

 

[nashman]

IMHO it would be a huge mistake to trade Stat! If you can get Garnett without parting with Stat then I would do it, otherwise no thank you. Garnett has ALOT of miles on him, he is not a young man and has alot of years played, while Stat is still at the BEGINNING of his career!

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

IMHO it would be a huge mistake to trade Stat! If you can get Garnett without parting with Stat then I would do it, otherwise no thank you. Garnett has ALOT of miles on him, he is not a young man and has alot of years played, while Stat is still at the BEGINNING of his career!

Unfortunately, the longevity of that future is in serious doubt due to STAT's knees.

 

[sharkman]

Unfortunately, the longevity of that future is in serious doubt due to STAT's knees.

Stat's knees appear to be fine (he played in all 82 games)...and Jason Kidd's knees look fine too...and he's 10 years older.

 

[asudevil83]

Stat's knees appear to be fine (he played in all 82 games)...and Jason Kidd's knees look fine too...and he's 10 years older.

knowing the suns luck, one of two things will probably happen:

1.) we keep him, he goes under the knife again in 3 years, and we wish we would have traded him when we had the chance.
2.) we trade him, he stays healthy, and we kick ourselves in the nuts for trading him

 

[slinslin]

If we trade Amare we would look like the biggest ********* in the history of the NBA if we don't win the title.
Prepare yourself to see Amare average like 30/12/2 on a team where he is the clearcut go-to guy and that makes the offense run through him regardless of wether they have a bad record or not.

 

[sharkman]

There are differing assumptions being made about Garnett.

Facts: (or the facts as close as we have)
1. Garnett hasn't demanded a trade (owner went on record last Wednesday).
2. Garnett can opt out of his contract next year.
3. Garnett would love to play on team that has a real chance at winning a title so he's not compared to Karl Malone.
4. There are few teams that could absorb Garnett's salary.
5. Even less that are contenders too.
6. Even less that have something Minnesota would want in return.
7. If Garnett isn't traded this year Minnesota loses him next year while getting nothing in return.
8. According to Gambo Garnett wants a 5 year $100mil extension.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Contenders: Phoenix, Utah, Chicago, Detroit, Miami, Dallas, Cleveland, San Antonio and the Lakers (a stretch).

Take away Utah, Detroit, and San Antonio because they won't pay anyone that much (historically they haven't done it).

Take away Chicago because to match salaries Chicago would have to trade half their team...or include Ben Wallace.

Take away Dallas...because besides Dirk...they have nothing to offer in return...same as Miami.

That leaves the Lakers and the Suns.

Gambo and Ash said that the Lakers are dangling Odom and Bynum...but that doesn't work salary-wise...the only way it works is:

Option A
Odom, Kwame Brown's expiring contract + #19 pick for Garnett. Is that better than

Option B
Marion, KT's expiring contract + #24pick for KG? Or would Minny go for

Option C
Keep Garnett for one year...and get all $22mil off the books next year...but get nothing in return?

Marion is the only way they get an allstar in return plus the use of a big man for a year...and $8mil off the books the next (unless you swap out Marion for Amare which I wouldn't do).