Kevin Kolb how much to pay.

[kerouac9]

I'm saying that the Cardinals at the end of the day will find excuses for anyone or everyone which will force them into a) taking a risk or b) spending a lot of money or c) both. They'll go cheap and they'll go retread.

and jesus, dude... stick to football. i don't fly off the handle to people who don't make snarky comments for no reason... like you just did.

So do you think that Kevin Kolb is worth a first-round pick (plus?) and a sixty-million-dollar contract, or not? It's easy to say now that the Cards will be cheap, but IMO the Cards would be responsible to pass on Kolb at that cost, even if it means with going with a less-expensive option like Bulger.

Kevin Kolb is less experienced than Matt Cassell, but he's going to want more money than Cassell, and will cost more in draft pick compensation to get. Do you think he's worth that price, or not?

This is a separate question from whether or not the Cards would be better off going with Orton or Bulger, but you seem hell-bent on describing withdrawal from a Kolb sweepstakes as a surrender to "cheapness," rather than bowing out when his cost outweighs his value.

 

[Unsterblich856]

Realistically speaking, 1st rounder. I'd rather we do a Schaub-esque trade where we give up two 2nds.

 

[Duckjake]

This is a separate question from whether or not the Cards would be better off going with Orton or Bulger, but you seem hell-bent on describing withdrawal from a Kolb sweepstakes as a surrender to "cheapness," rather than bowing out when his cost outweighs his value.

Well it is the Cardinals. So I'm not surprised at all that some might think that the Cards would pass regardless of cost to value ratio and just claim that the cost outweighed the value.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So do you think that Kevin Kolb is worth a first-round pick (plus?) and a sixty-million-dollar contract, or not? It's easy to say now that the Cards will be cheap, but IMO the Cards would be responsible to pass on Kolb at that cost, even if it means with going with a less-expensive option like Bulger.

Kevin Kolb is less experienced than Matt Cassell, but he's going to want more money than Cassell, and will cost more in draft pick compensation to get. Do you think he's worth that price, or not?

This is a separate question from whether or not the Cards would be better off going with Orton or Bulger, but you seem hell-bent on describing withdrawal from a Kolb sweepstakes as a surrender to "cheapness," rather than bowing out when his cost outweighs his value.

I seem "hell-bent"? I think this team goes with Bulger because he's cheap and won't cost us anything. I'd say the same thing once discussion of Palmer starts cropping up and the Cardinals start talking themselves out of that as well. Same goes for Hasselback. I'll be surprised if ANY of those guys end up here.

Bulger is common street trash IMO and we'll get what we pay for there.

I think this team needs to swing the bat and swing it hard. IMO, Kolb is the only guy who's a possible home-run. I'm good with swinging for the fences on him. If it goes bust, it goes bust, but at least I think there's a decent shot he ends up good.

 

[seesred]

I said second, but it might take a first and maybe a player.

GBR
40

 

[TRW]

2nd round or less was my vote...

almost said nothing.

I see NOTHING about Kolb that warrants the mania about him. Schaub and Cassell notwithstanding, I think history shows you get the QBOF in the DRAFT and not by trading for some team's backup. I know there are exceptions, but by and large that's just how it is.

Kolb has not shown any signs to me that he is worth even a 2nd round pick, but I wouldn't scream if the Cards gambled to that extent.

 

[TJ]

Such a contract would effectively end the development of John Skelton as anything more than a #2 and future trade bait.

Not necessarily a bad thing if Kolb turns out the be the real deal.

 

[Jersey Girl]

The life of a Cards fan

Hence my prediction, lol. AZ Cards fan for life!!!!

 

[Jersey Girl]

I seem "hell-bent"? I think this team goes with Bulger because he's cheap and won't cost us anything. I'd say the same thing once discussion of Palmer starts cropping up and the Cardinals start talking themselves out of that as well. Same goes for Hasselback. I'll be surprised if ANY of those guys end up here.

Bulger is common street trash IMO and we'll get what we pay for there.

I think this team needs to swing the bat and swing it hard. IMO, Kolb is the only guy who's a possible home-run. I'm good with swinging for the fences on him. If it goes bust, it goes bust, but at least I think there's a decent shot he ends up good.

Well, I don't think the Cards will sign Bulger cause he's cheap. I think that, if they do sign him, it's because he will produce.

Love ya, Cheese, but I totally disagree that Kolb is the only possible home-run here. I know Vince Young has a ton of issues, but I think he has an equal chance of being successful, given an equal opportunity and equal playing time.

Personally, I don't want Bulger and have said so for months. I wouldn't call him common street trash, but there are other veterans that I think would do a much better job.

I agree, though, that the team needs to swing the bat. I just think, depending on the price, they should let one go when it comes to Kolb.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

If the Cards don't go for Palmer or Kolb, then I'd like to know what their definition of "all in" means. At least when the White Sox used that term they went out and spent a ton of money. It hasn't worked out so far but it's early.

You don't go all in by signing Bulger, Kyle Kosier, and a couple of DL depth guys. All in, to me, means trading for Palmer/Kolb, re-signing Fitz, Lutui, Sendlein, Branch, and Breaston(even though I'd prefer Steve Smith), then bringing in Tulloch, Bulger as a backup, and a guy like Davin Joseph for the OL.

 

[Duckjake]

almost said nothing.

I see NOTHING about Kolb that warrants the mania about him. Schaub and Cassell notwithstanding, I think history shows you get the QBOF in the DRAFT and not by trading for some team's backup. I know there are exceptions, but by and large that's just how it is.

Kolb has not shown any signs to me that he is worth even a 2nd round pick, but I wouldn't scream if the Cards gambled to that extent.

There are several QBs who have done well on a 2nd team. Farve, Brees, Steve Young, Schaub.

Warner went to the SB with his 4th team. Chris Chandler played in the SB with Atlanta, his 6th team and QB'd there for 5 years. Trent Green threw for over 20,000 yards in six seasons in KC his third team. Warren Moon came from the Candian Football League.

So you can get them either way. But you are right that the draft is usually better. Get the guy in your system young and keep him and your system in place.

The Cardinals problem with QBs has been that they're the Cardinals. We had Chandler and let him go for Buerelein who Buddy ruined and let Steve go throw 36 TD passes in one season for Carolina.

We had Lomax and he had the hip problem. Rosey left for the Rodeo. We draft Leinart in the first round and he washes out. We had Plummer who keeps throwing more INTs than TDs then goes to Denver and throws more TDs than INTs.

 

[joeshmo]

I see NOTHING about Kolb that warrants the mania about him.

3 of 7 starts with well over 300 yards passing.
2 of 7 starts with NFC player of the week honors.

I know that is a very small sample size here but to say you see NOTHING is just as outlandish as someone saying he is without a doubt a home run.

 

[Mulli]

Yes, Kolb has some risk. Yes, his body of work is not large. But weeks 5 and 6 last season, against SF and ATL, were pretty solid.

 

[earthsci]

So you'd be happy dealing out a first-round pick...

Huh. You either -

1. Have a reading comprehension problem or
2. Really do twist things that people say to make your argument

Let me reiterate so you can let it sink in and quite being an ass. Kevin Kolb is not my first or second choice for QB. I would rather would rather make the pick conditional on how Kolb and the Cards perform. I would only be willing to make this trade because I want the Cardinals to be decisive once they decide what they want.

Think about that and tell me how I'm saying that I would be happy.

I don't get a colonoscopy because it makes me happy. Sometimes it's necessary.

 

[Snakester]

I said a second rounder. We again didn't address our major weaknesses in the draft and unless we get a major passrusher and at least two top o-linemen we will be picking again in the top ten of next years draft. If we give up our first rounder next year it will most likely be a top ten pick, so what we need to ask ourselves is Kevin Kolb worth a top ten if not a top five pick in next years draft.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I said a second rounder. We again didn't address our major weaknesses in the draft and unless we get a major passrusher and at least two top o-linemen we will be picking again in the top ten of next years draft. If we give up our first rounder next year it will most likely be a top ten pick, so what we need to ask ourselves is Kevin Kolb worth a top ten if not a top five pick in next years draft.

One only asks this question if one accepts the premise of your argument. I don't. What you preceive as major weaknesses is, it would seem, not shared by coaches and management, and evidently their belief is that with a QBOF such as Kolb the price for his services both in picks and cash is worth it.

With Schofield, Acho, Washington, Wilson, Peterson, Dockett and Campbell we have plenty of talent to put pressure on the opposing QB. It's all in the design. We need to fill the hole left by Faneca, and sign our own free agents, but, when done, I note that the team believes that this unit can produce.

 

[Duckjake]

One only asks this question if one accepts the premise of your argument. I don't. What you preceive as major weaknesses is, it would seem, not shared by coaches and management, and evidently their belief is that with a QBOF such as Kolb the price for his services both in picks and cash is worth it.

With Schofield, Acho, Washington, Wilson, Peterson, Dockett and Campbell we have plenty of talent to put pressure on the opposing QB. It's all in the design. We need to fill the hole left by Faneca, and sign our own free agents, but, when done, I note that the team believes that this unit can produce.

Considering that is the same Brain Trust that put DeWreck Anderson and Max Hall as #1 and #2 on the depth chart at QB last season I don't see their beliefs as being very reliable.

On the other hand I do think that although we don't have a dominant pass rusher we do have the ability to bring pressure from many different areas and hopefully will be able to do a much better job of disguising our blitzes. With Dan Williams and Acho and Peterson the run defense should be better as well.

We'll see. These are the Cardinals who have followed every short rise to the top with multiple years at the bottom so I'm not getting too optimistic about next year's #1 pick being in the bottom half.

 

[lobo]

If the Cards don't go for Palmer or Kolb, then I'd like to know what their definition of "all in" means. At least when the White Sox used that term they went out and spent a ton of money. It hasn't worked out so far but it's early.

You don't go all in by signing Bulger, Kyle Kosier, and a couple of DL depth guys. All in, to me, means trading for Palmer/Kolb, re-signing Fitz, Lutui, Sendlein, Branch, and Breaston(even though I'd prefer Steve Smith), then bringing in Tulloch, Bulger as a backup, and a guy like Davin Joseph for the OL.

Too logical and makes too much sense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

ha. that's funny.

 

[kerouac9]

I seem "hell-bent"? I think this team goes with Bulger because he's cheap and won't cost us anything. I'd say the same thing once discussion of Palmer starts cropping up and the Cardinals start talking themselves out of that as well. Same goes for Hasselback. I'll be surprised if ANY of those guys end up here.

Bulger is common street trash IMO and we'll get what we pay for there.

I think this team needs to swing the bat and swing it hard. IMO, Kolb is the only guy who's a possible home-run. I'm good with swinging for the fences on him. If it goes bust, it goes bust, but at least I think there's a decent shot he ends up good.

But he's the only guy available this year who's a possible home run (assuming that Carson Palmer isn't available). Do you "swing hard" against a knuckleball pitcher where the chances of getting it out of the park are very low, or do you swing for contact and to get on base?

The Cards are going to mortgage the next three years at least in trading for and signing Kevin Kolb. I don't see much to indicate that Kolb has the ability to be a Super Bowl-winning QB, which is what you'd be paying for. I don't understand the mentality of paying as much as you can because it's the best thing on the market right now.

That's how we got into the housing crisis--to use another metaphor. Just because the market is hot right now, some people want to pay $270,000 for a two-bedroom, two-bath, 975-square foot townhouse. If we wait a year and hit a double with Bulger or Hasselback or Smith--guys who have just as much of a chance of helping us win the 2011 NFC West title--then we can swing for the home run next year.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think in order for the Cardinals to throw the ranch at Kolb, they would have to be convinced he is better than Skelton after he gets another year under his belt. I'm not convinced. It would be a huge disappointment to give up valuable trade assets to only see Skelton beat him out. I'd rather pay less for a veteran QB.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But he's the only guy available this year who's a possible home run (assuming that Carson Palmer isn't available). Do you "swing hard" against a knuckleball pitcher where the chances of getting it out of the park are very low, or do you swing for contact and to get on base?

The Cards are going to mortgage the next three years at least in trading for and signing Kevin Kolb. I don't see much to indicate that Kolb has the ability to be a Super Bowl-winning QB, which is what you'd be paying for. I don't understand the mentality of paying as much as you can because it's the best thing on the market right now.

That's how we got into the housing crisis--to use another metaphor. Just because the market is hot right now, some people want to pay $270,000 for a two-bedroom, two-bath, 975-square foot townhouse. If we wait a year and hit a double with Bulger or Hasselback or Smith--guys who have just as much of a chance of helping us win the 2011 NFC West title--then we can swing for the home run next year.

I think Bulger/Smith are complete and utter whiffs, three pitch strikeouts. And if we sign either one of those guys, Fitz is gone IMO and once we lose the face of the franchise (and ANOTHER high profile player) you might as well drop a nuclear bomb on the UOP because ain't no one's gonna want to play here.

Hasslebeck's my secondary option. if we're going band-aid, that's where we should go, but i bet we don't pony up for him either.

 

[Snakester]

One only asks this question if one accepts the premise of your argument. I don't. What you preceive as major weaknesses is, it would seem, not shared by coaches and management, and evidently their belief is that with a QBOF such as Kolb the price for his services both in picks and cash is worth it.

With Schofield, Acho, Washington, Wilson, Peterson, Dockett and Campbell we have plenty of talent to put pressure on the opposing QB. It's all in the design. We need to fill the hole left by Faneca, and sign our own free agents, but, when done, I note that the team believes that this unit can produce.

Our defense couldn't put much pressure on QB's last year and we didn't bring in anybody other than Acho and he's not a big time passrusher. If Schofield and Washington can produce then we may have something, but right now that's a big if. It could happen, but until it does I don't see us with much of a passrush. The one player that we drafted that makes me think that Whiz is starting to come around is the tightend Rob Housler. Picking him makes me think that Whiz is finally going to start using the TE position.

 

[TJ]

But he's the only guy available this year who's a possible home run (assuming that Carson Palmer isn't available). Do you "swing hard" against a knuckleball pitcher where the chances of getting it out of the park are very low, or do you swing for contact and to get on base?

The Cards are going to mortgage the next three years at least in trading for and signing Kevin Kolb. I don't see much to indicate that Kolb has the ability to be a Super Bowl-winning QB, which is what you'd be paying for. I don't understand the mentality of paying as much as you can because it's the best thing on the market right now.

That's how we got into the housing crisis--to use another metaphor. Just because the market is hot right now, some people want to pay $270,000 for a two-bedroom, two-bath, 975-square foot townhouse. If we wait a year and hit a double with Bulger or Hasselback or Smith--guys who have just as much of a chance of helping us win the 2011 NFC West title--then we can swing for the home run next year.

I'll run with your baseball analogy because it is more cogent with the topic.

If we sign Bulger or Hasselbeck, it would be like signing Randy Johnson to a 1 or 2 year contract and expecting him to return to greatness. A once devastating 99 mph fastball has dipped to 91 mph and his slider does not have as much movement as it once did. Moreover, his arm and body have aged and sustained past injuries and is more prone to future injuries. Plus, his recovery time would be longer than a younger player. Subsequently, that baseball team has to call up a young AAA player who may or may not amount to anything.

In this argument, Bulger and Hasselbeck are Johnson and the AAA player is Skelton. Bulger and Hasselbeck were once great, but have diminished in talent, are older, and sustained past injuries. The AAA player is a young Skelton, who played recently against inferior talent. I could also use the analogy that he is a AA player who leap-frogged his way to the majors as he played at Fordham and not a BCS school. We have no clue what his level of contribution is or will be.

So instead of signing a player who has little tread on the tires and is unequivocally not the long-term solution, you take a risk on a guy like Kolb who has proven he can produce on the field. I know your counterpoint is going to be a bunch of stats (which mean nothing to me); however, you take a look at him through a scout's eyes and see a young player who can make the throws and read defenses. Does he need polishing? Sure. But not much. He can easily be the QB for now and the future as opposed to a possible (not guaranteed) QB for now in the older aforementioned players. If we trade a first rounder and hit a homer, it does not matter as it is the equivalent of drafting a great QB, and I know if Kolb succeeds, we will look back in hindsight and say that first rounder we gave up was certainly worth it.

I'll just say this: there is a reason Andy Reid traded Donovan McNabb, a proven veteran and probable HoFer and felt comfortable about it. And it wasn't because he knew Vick was the answer, but rather Kolb proved himself. Vick's renaissance was simply an anomaly and not predicated by anyone. Additionally, there is a reason he is more coveted by teams who need a QB than Bulger, Hasselbeck, Smith or Palmer. And Kolb will cost much more with a substantial contract and high draft picks.

It's time for this franchise to take a risk. Get Kolb and don't think twice - simple

 

[Dayman]

If we wait a year and hit a double with Bulger or Hasselback or Smith--guys who have just as much of a chance of helping us win the 2011 NFC West title--then we can swing for the home run next year.

And who's the target next year? Brees? He has as much chance of hitting the open market as Peyton. Orton? We might as well give up a 3rd or 4th for him this year if he's the one. Sage Rosenfels? Brady Quinn? Jason Campbell? This is your list of 2012 FA QBs. Not overly impressive, if you ask me.

So then you're left to rely on drafting your QOTF. In your scenario, the Cards would be picking in the 20+ range as division winners. Since 2000, the following QBs have been drafted at pick 20 or lower: Patrick Ramsey, Rex Grossman, JP Losman, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Brady Quinn and Tim Tebow. Rodgers is obviously the only solid candidate on that list, and he took four years to develop. Whis doesn't have a four year grace period to let that happen.

Plus, you'd have to spend the first round pick on that player, which is what people are so unwilling to give up for Kolb. One way or another, next year's first rounder is likely going toward a QB. Unless it's used to replace Fitz, who could very well walk without a viable plan for QB in place. More viable than waiting for someone drafted in the late first round to develop.

I'm not exactly aching to give up a first for Kolb, but given the alternatives, I think the risks involved with getting him have been way overblown.