OP
OP
Ya. If the Dbacks are stuck with Towers and a low payroll, I will follow them less and less. What a bummer.Yep... with a lot more $$...
Kevin Towers Is or Is Not A Huge Disappointment
- Thread starter Mulli
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82CardsGrad
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As I've said, I am not attempting to make Towers out to be a great GM. Guys like Beane, Wren and Friedman are clearly superior...and you can add John Schuerholz to that list as well...
My point though, is that I believe it's important to compare Towers to GM's who dealt with a wallet the size he has had at his disposal...
Do I think it's always a perfect correlation between payroll size and wins? No. However, I do believe that over a period of years, way more often than not, the bigger spending teams win more often, win more Pennants and win more championships...
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
The Dbacks spend as much as I believe they should be expected to spend. I don't see them as being cheap by any stretch.
We are ranked 17th in salary in all of MLB, and are presently sitting in the 22nd position in terms of avg attendance... Seems reasonable to me...
OP
OP
That is fine. I just won't really have much interest if they go full small market year in and year out.
OP
OP
http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm
1998 Payrolls
Towers' Pads in the World Series:
Padres in top ten of payroll.
1998 Payrolls
Towers' Pads in the World Series:
Padres in top ten of payroll.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm
1998 Payrolls
Towers' Pads in the World Series:
Padres in top ten of payroll.
Which is my point...
OP
OP
Me too. So long as people realize Towers is only decent in a small market boring team to follow context.Which is my point...
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Maybe... But what you're saying is that if he were the GM for the Yankees, he would've been incapable of putting up the W's at a rate close to what Cashman has done over his tenure...
I just don't know if you/we can make that type of judgement.
For all we know, Towers might have produced even more wins than Cashman.
OP
OP
Where did I say that? Ya, we can all make up hypotheticals like that woohoo. Yippee.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
OP
OP
I am not sure what I was saying. I will say though that Towers better start drafting better if they are going to be bottom of the barrell franchise.Maybe I misinterpreted what you were saying above?
NOTE: His big money free agent signing haven't been so good.
OP
OP
Right! So, Towers went to the World Series when the Pads spent money. Will he only get the Dbacks to the Series if the Dbacks spend money? His free agent signings haven't been so good, so Archie Bradley better be REALLY GOOD.FTFY
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
I am not sure what I was saying. I will say though that Towers better start drafting better if they are going to be bottom of the barrell franchise.
NOTE: His big money free agent signing haven't been so good.
Agree with the draft comment - however, Bradley is certainly looking like a terrific pick and again, we should know more about his drafting performance with the Dbacks in another year or two...
With regard to the free agent comment... Man, Kubel has SUCKED... Ross was beginning to get his act together though. Nieves has been beyond all expectations...
OP
OP
Brandon McCarthy makes my head hurt.
Hey-0! too soon?
Note: after I started this thread and reviewed the trades as a whole, I started feeling a little better about Towers.
82CardsGrad
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Lefty
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I really hope he doesn't trade Bradley. I never thought Parker would get traded. Getting Cahill and his big contract compared to paying Parker a lot less for years to come made no sense.
Phrazbit
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In baseball the biggest issue the small market teams face is retention of their top home-grown talent. But Towers managed to dodge that problem... by never developing anyone worth keeping.
Crazy like a fox.
The poor house excuse is simply that, an excuse. San Diego's problems stemmed from a horrible farm system. They had basically no influx of young talent, when Towers did spend money he found himself wrapped up in bad contracts with older players... Nevin, Klesko, Giles.
You wanna point out a strength for Towers, I would concede he does a decent job of finding bargains in the minimum contract waste bin. But at the other aspects of his job his track record is spotty at best, and in the draft its downright awful.
Crazy like a fox.
The poor house excuse is simply that, an excuse. San Diego's problems stemmed from a horrible farm system. They had basically no influx of young talent, when Towers did spend money he found himself wrapped up in bad contracts with older players... Nevin, Klesko, Giles.
You wanna point out a strength for Towers, I would concede he does a decent job of finding bargains in the minimum contract waste bin. But at the other aspects of his job his track record is spotty at best, and in the draft its downright awful.
Phrazbit
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McCarthy needs to eat something. He looks like he just finished the Bataan Death March. On the skinny end of the spectrum I dont know if there is a more unhealthy looking dude in sports.
OP
OP
Way too premature for this thread...
Go back and look at KT's record at San Diego.
Try doing similar analysis of other GM's from other teams... You will find that none of them are perfect, and all of them have many, many misses... more misses than hits...
Fire this baby up in another year or two...
Fired.
Phrazbit
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Rereading this thread made me nauseous. Towers is a clown. I cannot believe how long it took for people to understand how terrible he was. The guy left San Diego in tatters, despite consistently drafting very high they had a perennially terrible farm system. Towers downfall is not a lack of payroll (hell, give him more money and he just does more damage), Towers has a fundamental lack of appreciation for the importance of developing within. He destroyed a top 5 minor league system in the span of 2 years. Trading away boat loads of young talent for older, expensive and limited players.
The only thing that will require a few more years to evaluate is just how horrible the long term damage is.
The only thing that will require a few more years to evaluate is just how horrible the long term damage is.
Lefty
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http://www.si.com/mlb/2014/09/12/wait-til-next-year-arizona-diamondbacks-eliminated
It will take a long time for the next general manager, whoever he or she may be, to undo the damage Towers did to the roster in trading talented young players for poor returns and handing out multi-year deals to middling veterans.
It will take a long time for the next general manager, whoever he or she may be, to undo the damage Towers did to the roster in trading talented young players for poor returns and handing out multi-year deals to middling veterans.
don7031
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^ Unfortunately a large amount of payroll is tied up in guys (Arroyo, Cahill, Ross) who aren't contributing enough to be called "middling".
overseascardfan
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The ONLY saving grace is all 3 can be rid of next offseason, Arroyo is expiring and Cahill & Ross can be bought out cheap. ARZ just needs to continue to draft well and keep the young talent instead of selling them off.
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