Key Roster Decisions (Offense)

Mitch

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QB:

Locks: Palmer, Stanton.

* Pretty much everyone expects the Cardinals to keep all 3 QBs.
* However, if the Cardinals remain so enamored with Drew Stanton as the #2 QB, and yet they believe that Blaine Gabbert would be in the mix to start for a handful of teams, then they should trade Gabbert and get something for him while he commands some value. This would open up another roster spot, which could help the special teams and perhaps allow the team to carry an extra WR in light of John Brown's uncertainty.
* If Gabbert can't beat out Stanton for the #2, then that does not speak favorably for his future in Arizona.
* Some say that the Cardinals may try to re-sign Gabbert to be next year's #2. Well, that's pure folly, especially when the Cardinals have already indicated that Gabbert would be in the mix to start somewhere else. Gabbert's agent is going to see to it that he is in the mix to start somewhere in 2018.
* Or, which I think is the real truth, the Cardinals are fascinated with Gabbert's potential and want him to learn the playbook inside and out for a chance to be the starter in 2018.

RB:

Locks: David Johnson, K. Williams.

* My own feeling is that Elijhaa Penny, who is this year's Stepfan Taylor on STs, will be on the roster. His blocking on the punt team is critical, for one.
* What that means is that the final roster spot is between Chris Johnson and Andre Ellington. Neither of them figure to be a factor on STs -- so which one brings more value? Even though CJ thus far looks a little slower than one would expect, he still could be a workhorse if need be. Ellington is a 3rd down, situational RB. CJ is the better blocker in pass pro and is a far better runner between the tackles. the bottom line is: CJ brings far more to the table.
* If the coaches are ho-hum about CJ and Ellington, don't be surprised if we see a waiver wire pickup.

WR:

Locks: Fitzgerald, Jaron Brown, Nelson, C. Williams

* While it's tough to say this, there have to be discussions amongst the coaches about the status of John Brown. It seems at this point that because he is so injury prone that he will continue to be day to day. This is further compounded by his sickle cell anemia, because of how slower than normal Brown is able to recover from injuries. It could be that the coaches decide to place him on the IR, try to help him build his body back to full strength and then make a decision on him in 8 weeks. To quote Langston Hughes, Brown's 2017 season could initially be a "dream deferred."
* Brittan Golden has had a very good camp until his recent injury. The questions are: is he just as valuable a WR as Kevin Ross? Is he a greater asset on STs than Kevin Ross? The answers to those questions, imo are: No and Maybe. Ross is the stronger WR. And while Golden is the better gunner on STs, Ross provides depth as a punt returner -- which currently is needed because K. Williams is nursing an ankle injury.
* The wild card here is Chris Hubert, aka "Little Smoke." During a week where BA was irate about the sluggish play of the WRs, one of the brightest comment BA made was that Little Smoke is always "wide-a-- open." Clearly, Little Smoke has been a primary target the last two pre-season games. He broke the Raiders' veteran CB Sean Smith's ankles on a stop and fade route that left Hubert wide open for a TD, which Drew Stanton missed on. Versus the Bears, Hubert not only showed his knack for getting open, he showed nifty hands --- something that has been a question mark about him.
* Hopefully the Cardinals will be able to pass Krishawn Hogan through waivers because this kid has size, speed and skill. And he looks pretty solid on STs too.

TE:

Locks: Gresham, Niklas, Momah

* Hakeem Valles has value on STs, although his holding call on K.Williams' good punt return didn't help his cause. But, he's going to clear waivers and be signed to the PS like last year until he is needed.
* Ricky Seals-Jones could be a prime target for the PS.

OL:

Locks: Humphries, Iupati, Shipley, Boehm, Veldheer, Wetzel, Toner


* The mystery surrounding 4th round pick Dorian Johnson -- who displayed very good strength, punch and balance in one on one drills --- puts his roster selection in doubt. One would think that by now he would be getting 2nd team snaps instead of Kaleb Johnson or Tony Bergstrom, but that hasn't been the case. Can the Cardinals risk putting Dorian on waivers? Perhaps they can if teams that lower his draft ranking because of his medical concerns aren't willing to take the risk. Another thought occurs --- could Dorian be disgruntled enough to elect to sign to some other team's practice squad? Maybe he would prefer to go back to Pittsburgh? Or to Philly? He is from Belle Vernon, PA. Curiously, from day one, the Cardinals poo-hooed any talk of giving Dorian Johnson a chance to compete for the RG spot. Now he can't even crack the 2nd team lineup? The Cardinals threw away a 5th round pick last year -- will they throw away a 4th this year?
* Will Holden has been up and down, but his potential is clearly evident. The question is, do the coaches keep him over Ulrich John? John is having a solid camp and has already shown that he can be counted on as a spot starter. The Cardinals have his rights through 2018, as he will be an RFA next year. The Cardinals will have to weigh 4 years of Holden versus 2 years of John. Holden is the type of physical talent that the Patriots could claim off waivers. He fits their system very well.
* At guard, veteran G/C Tony Bergstrom has been worthy of earning a roster spot. He was signed as insurance and now that Mike Iupati is battling a tricep injury, maybe that tips things in favor of the coaches keeping Bergstrom. John Wetzel and Cole Toner are the swing starters, but Bergstrom's versatility could make him a swing player if Wetzel or Toner has to start.
* G Kaleb Johnson and T Givens Price could be candidates for the PS.

What are your thoughts? Who makes it? Who doesn't? What would you do?
 

Garthshort

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Mitch, disagree with your first point about DS over BG. Reading BA's comments, I take it that he's saying, "At this point in time........". For me, at least, BG is a much better choice 'down the road', no matter how much better DS knows the offense.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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Mitch, disagree with your first point about DS over BG. Reading BA's comments, I take it that he's saying, "At this point in time........". For me, at least, BG is a much better choice 'down the road', no matter how much better DS knows the offense.

The key word in my point was "if". If BA really prefers DS over BG, then trade BG. That was my point. I don't believe that either. But, I thought Matt Barkley was deserving of a roster spot last year and was wrong. I think Gabbert has given BA great reasons to be excited, but BA is finicky when it comes to QBs. What he sees in Stanton is beyond all comprehension to me.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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Dorian Johnson is a lock imo. He won't pass waivers and cutting a 4th round pick is unheard of.

I would like to think this as well, WC. It's hard to believe that Dorian is not getting any snaps with the 2nd string offensive line, especially with 5 pre-season games to work with. Weird. It's not like Kaleb Johnson is dominating out there.
 

NeverSayDieFan

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Hey, Mitch. Hope you're doing GREAT! Do you think our punting, which translates to better field position, will be better this year?

Mark in now-eclipsed Charleston, S.C.
 

b8rtm8nn

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No arguments here, it will be interesting to see who makes the cut, RB is the only position where a cut will cause some complaints for us.

Valles may not even make the PS, he does something wrong for everything he does right, and that is a kiss of death with this coaching staff for second year players.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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Hey, Mitch. Hope you're doing GREAT! Do you think our punting, which translates to better field position, will be better this year?

Mark in now-eclipsed Charleston, S.C.

Hi Mark!

Yes! Both Matt Wile and Richie Leone are upgrades over Drew Butler. The question is, will the coverage and tackling on STs be better?
 

RugbyMuffin

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QB:
Palmer
Stanton
Gabbert

RB:
D.Johnson
C.Johnson
Williams
Ellington

WR:
Fitzgerald
Jaron Brown
JJ Nelson
Chad Williams
Jeremy Ross
[John Brown]* - I would not be surprised to see John Brown put on IR, and see Brittan Golden in his spot. Yet, if they keep John Brown I think they keep Ross over Golden.

TE:
Gresham
Nicklas
Momah

OL:
Humphries
Iupati
Shipley
Boehm
Veldheer
------------
Wetzel
John
Toner
D.Johnson
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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QB:
Palmer
Stanton
Gabbert

RB:
D.Johnson
C.Johnson
Williams
Ellington

WR:
Fitzgerald
Jaron Brown
JJ Nelson
Chad Williams
Jeremy Ross
[John Brown]* - I would not be surprised to see John Brown put on IR, and see Brittan Golden in his spot. Yet, if they keep John Brown I think they keep Ross over Golden.

TE:
Gresham
Nicklas
Momah

OL:
Humphries
Iupati
Shipley
Boehm
Veldheer
------------
Wetzel
John
Toner
D.Johnson

Rugby, I think your picks are pretty much in line with what BA will do. 2 questions:

Would Ellington be activated on game days as a #4 RB who doesn't play STs? Is that even possible given the other needs to consider in the 46 actives?

If a team claims Holden off waivers (guys who can possibly play LT are hard to find), wouldn't it concern you that two years in a row the Cardinals gave away 5th round draft picks?
 

b8rtm8nn

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Rugby, I think your picks are pretty much in line with what BA will do. 2 questions:

Would Ellington be activated on game days as a #4 RB who doesn't play STs? Is that even possible given the other needs to consider in the 46 actives?

If a team claims Holden off waivers (guys who can possibly play LT are hard to find), wouldn't it concern you that two years in a row the Cardinals gave away 5th round draft picks?


If you are going to start taking a few OL projects per year (round 4 and below), you have to be comfortable losing 1 or 2 if they get picked up before the PS. I would much rather go through too many OL trying to protect Palmer and Johnson than keeping draft picks that may or may not pan out.
 

CFLredzoned

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I think D Johnson and Holden will both go to the practice squad. Johnson will be safe because he hasn't shown anything yet, plus the liver condition. Holden I'm a little bit worried about because that does sound like such a Patriot thing to do to grab him off our practice squad. But I think BASK will still take that risk because U John has shown he can play right now.

I'm interested to see what they do with Hogan because BASK have to be wondering if he could be an eventual Fitz replacement in the slot. And no, I'm not comparing Hogan to Fitz. But as far as Fitz's current role as possession receiver, making tough catches over the middle, so far, Hogan looks like he has that ability. That first drilled over-the-middle catch he made in the HOF game spoke volumes to me the way he snatched it out of the air with ease, possessed it quickly and gained a few more yards. Other receivers on the team would have struggled with that ball. Of course we have no idea how he's doing mentally. He looks like he's taking blocking seriously - maybe not to the echo of the whistle the way Williams looks to be getting after it at times. You can tell Fitz is getting into all of their ears as far as the importance of blocking.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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I think D Johnson and Holden will both go to the practice squad. Johnson will be safe because he hasn't shown anything yet, plus the liver condition. Holden I'm a little bit worried about because that does sound like such a Patriot thing to do to grab him off our practice squad. But I think BASK will still take that risk because U John has shown he can play right now.

I'm interested to see what they do with Hogan because BASK have to be wondering if he could be an eventual Fitz replacement in the slot. And no, I'm not comparing Hogan to Fitz. But as far as Fitz's current role as possession receiver, making tough catches over the middle, so far, Hogan looks like he has that ability. That first drilled over-the-middle catch he made in the HOF game spoke volumes to me the way he snatched it out of the air with ease, possessed it quickly and gained a few more yards. Other receivers on the team would have struggled with that ball. Of course we have no idea how he's doing mentally. He looks like he's taking blocking seriously - maybe not to the echo of the whistle the way Williams looks to be getting after it at times. You can tell Fitz is getting into all of their ears as far as the importance of blocking.

I would be very surprised if the Cardinals waived both Dorian Johnson and Will Holden.

As for your points about Krishawn Hogan, I think there is merit to everything you said.
 

gmabel830

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I would be very surprised if the Cardinals waived both Dorian Johnson and Will Holden.

As for your points about Krishawn Hogan, I think there is merit to everything you said.

I think Wetzel and Toner give enough position flexibility where they will keep Johnson and Holden on the 53 to develop. The other guys go.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Rugby, I think your picks are pretty much in line with what BA will do. 2 questions:

Would Ellington be activated on game days as a #4 RB who doesn't play STs? Is that even possible given the other needs to consider in the 46 actives?

If a team claims Holden off waivers (guys who can possibly play LT are hard to find), wouldn't it concern you that two years in a row the Cardinals gave away 5th round draft picks?


I think Ellington is inactive most game days, and is there for injury insurance purposes until TJ Logan gets back. Ellington can run the football, catch it out of the backfield, and return kickoffs which makes him a pretty good insurance policy. Not saying he is going to be a different maker but for the role needed, I think he fits the bill for now.

I am not concerned with giving away 5th round picks, or any player if there is someone better. I have not and based on the playing time the Cardinals have given Holden, they have not seen that much out of Holden. He is currently 3rd team in regards to the current group of players. There is a glut of prospects at guard for the Cardinals, and at tackle they have Veldheer, Humphries, Wetzel, and John. That is pretty good, IMO.

What would be worse ? Seeing another team pick up a current 3rd team, 5th round rookie who has been decent at best in preseason against camp fodder, or see another team pick up Ulrick John who has at least shown he can play a limited role in the NFL, and John is only 25 years old.

You cannot keep everyone

Not to mention in the end, we are talking about players that are going to be inactive on game day, and probably be part of the roster churning at the bottom of the roster as well.

5th round picks are what they are, they can be JJ Nelson, or they can be Shaq Riddick. Sometimes they get cut because they are not good enough. FYI, random observation, looking back at past drafts, the Cardinals do well in the 5th round usually.
 
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Mitch

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I think Wetzel and Toner give enough position flexibility where they will keep Johnson and Holden on the 53 to develop. The other guys go.

I am tending to agree with you. Point well taken!
 

MartinD

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I thought Matt Barkley was deserving of a roster spot last year and was wrong.

No, for my money, you were right about that. Barkley displayed enough that he should have had a roster spot last year. BA didn't agree with either of us, but I thought he made the wrong call at the time.
 
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QB:
Palmer
Stanton
Gabbert

RB:
D.Johnson
C.Johnson
Williams
Ellington

WR:
Fitzgerald
Jaron Brown
JJ Nelson
Chad Williams
Jeremy Ross
[John Brown]* - I would not be surprised to see John Brown put on IR, and see Brittan Golden in his spot. Yet, if they keep John Brown I think they keep Ross over Golden.

TE:
Gresham
Nicklas
Momah

OL:
Humphries
Iupati
Shipley
Boehm
Veldheer
------------
Wetzel
John
Toner
D.Johnson

John Brown is back at practice at full participation & is playing this Saturday's game. He had to leave town the rest of this week to attend a funeral. Don't know why they would IR him.
 

RugbyMuffin

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John Brown is back at practice at full participation & is playing this Saturday's game. He had to leave town the rest of this week to attend a funeral. Don't know why they would IR him.

I said this at the beginning of training camp, and will continue to say it. In regards to John Brown's health, "I WILL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT"

I have yet to see anything that tells me this guy can consistently play football again.

They have been talking about this situation in the local AZ news, it has been talked about on the team site, and even Arians had mentioned it.

In the end I do not find it very likely that John Brown is going on IR, or will be cut or anything like that, but I would not be shocked if the Cardinals put him IR if it did happen.
 

NeverSayDieFan

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Hey, Mitch. Could you suit up for ST's.? You could be our "secret weapon"! :) I can't do it because they always say....He came flying down the field with his hair on fire! (...And I DON't have any..."hair", that is.)

Take care, bud

Mark" )
 

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We need to keep as many OL as possible as its very possible Iupati and Veldheer are not on the team next year due to various reasons. I think Veldheer retires and Iupati just doesn't seem to have it anymore.
 
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Proximo

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I think arians tipped his hand in his interview this week that Ross will not make the team. I assume golden has the last spot. I think they are pretty equal so I think that is ok. They are not putting John brown on IR if there is any chance of him playing like his old self, he provides a spark no other reciever on the roster can.

Also, gabbert is going nowhere. Nobody is going to trade enough for him for the cards to let him go.

At ol I hope they keep John, but fear they will keep Holden instead because he is a draft pick. Don't know what is going on with Dorian, but I say cut him if he can't make second team, we need a reliable backup as last year proved.

At rb, I think this weeks game will determine it, but right now I think it will be David, kerwyn, cj, and Ellington. Arians also hinted penny is a long shot.
 

Krangodnzr

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The key word in my point was "if". If BA really prefers DS over BG, then trade BG. That was my point. I don't believe that either. But, I thought Matt Barkley was deserving of a roster spot last year and was wrong. I think Gabbert has given BA great reasons to be excited, but BA is finicky when it comes to QBs. What he sees in Stanton is beyond all comprehension to me.

Gabbert had looked way better than Barkley looked last year.

Arians comments weren't coded in anyway. I think it's apparent that Gabbert is either Stantons replacement next year OR he's competing to replace a retired Palmer.
 

TJ

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The key word in my point was "if". If BA really prefers DS over BG, then trade BG. That was my point. I don't believe that either. But, I thought Matt Barkley was deserving of a roster spot last year and was wrong. I think Gabbert has given BA great reasons to be excited, but BA is finicky when it comes to QBs. What he sees in Stanton is beyond all comprehension to me.

Mitch, you knew there was zero chance that Gabbert was going to supplant Stanton. Gabbert was in a battle with himself to make the roster. He was either going to be 3rd string QB or he was going to be doing shampoo commercials in September.

I mean, how often have we seen the 3rd or 4th QB in preseason light it up? A lot. I don't think Palmer has ever been the most productive or best looking QB in any preseason I've seen him in. It's hard to look at these three preseason games and not think that there is a lot of actual NFL tape on him, which carries more weight when it comes to evaluation.

Trust me, I want CP3's replacement on the roster yesterday; however, Gabbert is not it. He's a clipboard carrier. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Buckybird

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I would be very surprised if the Cardinals waived both Dorian Johnson and Will Holden.

As for your points about Krishawn Hogan, I think there is merit to everything you said.
Yep! No way both those kids clear waivers if the Cards make that mistake IMO. I think both the kids have bright futures with Big Red. IMO I don't think #64 has struggled as much as some think, I think he needs to get stronger.

Plus I think the other things working in Holden & DJs favor is the unknown futures of Veldheer & possibly Iupati past this season.

I truly like the thought of DJ, Toner, Boehm, DoJ & Holden 2 years down the road. :mrgreen:
 
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