Kings @ Suns 12-4-18

[1Sun]

And what exactly is he? Keep in mind, it's only 23 games into his career. People seem to be ignoring that and thinking the sky is falling. Not exactly a surprise considering the state of this team, but he has really become THE punching bag, especially in the last 2 weeks or so.

Again, just the most obvious and troubling example of the wholesale regression of the team's players, especially young franchise cornerstones, under Igor Kokoskov.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don’t think you understand my point. Benoit remained Benoit. My concern is Ayton remains what he is now.

There is no way that Ayton is going to stay what he is now. We've seen young bigs before. They don't start well. Ayton is playing better than any reasonable person expected. Even if his drive ends up being that of KAT, he will still improve.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And what exactly is he? Keep in mind, it's only 23 games into his career. People seem to be ignoring that and thinking the sky is falling. Not exactly a surprise considering the state of this team, but he has really become THE punching bag, especially in the last 2 weeks or so.

What is he right now? I’d say he’s a big kid who is relatively passive, doesn’t know or desire imposing his will on the game, and is intimated by physical play. And potential. A whole lot of potential. But if he becomes Benoit and the potential is never realized, and what i just described remains who Ayton is more or less, that’s a bitter failure and disappointment.

I don’t think the sky is falling. I think more and more of ayton’s shortcomings are being exposed and he’s on a four game run of disappointing output.

 

[Bufalay]

There is no way that Ayton is going to stay what he is now. We've seen young bigs before. They don't start well. Ayton is playing better than any reasonable person expected. Even if his drive ends up being that of KAT, he will still improve.

Shaq and Blake Griffin had arguably their best statistical seasons as rookies. Not all players show massive improvement as they get older.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is no way that Ayton is going to stay what he is now. We've seen young bigs before. They don't start well. Ayton is playing better than any reasonable person expected. Even if his drive ends up being that of KAT, he will still improve.

I still have faith in his upside. But none of us know what is going to become of the kid.

 

[Chaplin]

Shaq and Blake Griffin had arguably their best statistical seasons as rookies. Not all players show massive improvement as they get older.

Shaq isn't really a good comparison. It's not like he's a Hall of Famer because of his rookie season.

 

[SirStefan32]

Shaq and Blake Griffin had arguably their best statistical seasons as rookies. Not all players show massive improvement as they get older.

Nobody is arguing that ALL players improve. Pointing out two players who had historically great rookie seasons does not mean that, as a general rule, bigs take longer to develop.

OK, so let's ignore the fact that they were both older and/or more experienced than Ayton. Those are two extreme examples. Some players have outstanding rookie seasons, but most don't, especially when it comes to the bigs.
Shaq was a "one of a kind" player. There has never been someone so big, so strong, yet so quick. He also played THREE years of college ball. Griffin was another freak of nature. He was every bit as athletic (if not more) than a young Stodemire, and I honestly cannot remember another big with that kind of athleticism. I would also argue that both of them DID improve significantly later on.

I think looking at guys like KAT, AD, Drummond, etc is a more reasonable way to look at how young bigs develop. Hell, even if you look at someone like Patrick Ewing back in the day showed major improvements later on. Ewing was 23 when he was a rookie, Robinson was 24.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I think we should look at Willie Cauley-Stein. Number six pick in 2015 draft, 25 years old. And the Suns fans expect their 20 year old rookie to roll the Kings. LOL

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think we should look at Willie Cauley-Stein. Number six pick in 2015 draft, 25 years old. And the Suns fans expect their 20 year old rookie to roll the Kings. LOL

Hyperbole much? Let’s try to keep the discussion on a reasonable level.

 

[Bufalay]

Nobody is arguing that ALL players improve. Pointing out two players who had historically great rookie seasons does not mean that, as a general rule, bigs take longer to develop.

OK, so let's ignore the fact that they were both older and/or more experienced than Ayton. Those are two extreme examples. Some players have outstanding rookie seasons, but most don't, especially when it comes to the bigs.
Shaq was a "one of a kind" player. There has never been someone so big, so strong, yet so quick. He also played THREE years of college ball. Griffin was another freak of nature. He was every bit as athletic (if not more) than a young Stodemire, and I honestly cannot remember another big with that kind of athleticism. I would also argue that both of them DID improve significantly later on.

I think looking at guys like KAT, AD, Drummond, etc is a more reasonable way to look at how young bigs develop. Hell, even if you look at someone like Patrick Ewing back in the day showed major improvements later on. Ewing was 23 when he was a rookie, Robinson was 24.

I keep seeing these goofy graphics comparing Ayton to those guys because his rookie stats look similar to theirs if you set some arbitrary criteria and squint hard enough.

 

[Bufalay]

Shaq isn't really a good comparison. It's not like he's a Hall of Famer because of his rookie season.

But you knew he’d likely be a hall of famer during his rookie season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But you knew he’d likely be a hall of famer during his rookie season.

Actually I believe it was expected from his freshman season in college if not before. He isn't the best player ever but IMO if he'd had MJ or Bird's will to win, he would have ended the GOAT argument. Of course, I'd say the same about Wilt.

 

[Cheesebeef]

man, this season sucks.

 

[95pro]

man, this season sucks.

It's like where do we go? We know we need a new owner who can hire real basketball people so we can get back on track. But that's highly unlikely anytime soon.

 

[Superbone]

Shaq and Blake Griffin had arguably their best statistical seasons as rookies. Not all players show massive improvement as they get older.

And they both showed aggression from the start.

 

[Bufalay]

Actually I believe it was expected from his freshman season in college if not before. He isn't the best player ever but IMO if he'd had MJ or Bird's will to win, he would have ended the GOAT argument. Of course, I'd say the same about Wilt.

I expected Ayton would be soft from YouTube clips of his freshman season.

 

[Yuma]

I expected Ayton to be out of position having played PF in college. He is playing the center spot like a PF which is part of his problem.