Kingsbury’s learning curve.

[DVontel]

This board gonna be mad as hell if Quinnen/Bosa is the pick & that’s hilarious even typing out 3 months ago.

 

[Jetstream Green]

This board gonna be mad as hell if Quinnen/Bosa is the pick & that’s hilarious even typing out 3 months ago.

Screw that result... I want Oliver with the first pick now lol

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Challenges? That is like saying a ACL injury is minor. The Cardinals where the biggest clusterflip I ever saw watching a pro team just from a coaching standpoint

I am talking about simple things like Expected Completion percentage. Dead last in the NFL.

That is where in a situation where he should have completed the pass he was last.

Clean pocket. Open receiver. Last

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I am still floored he had more time to pass than 22 other QBs. My own bias is that he was under pressure all the time but that just isn't factual.

I mean if he is dead last in expected completion, 2nd worst in completion percentage (Fitz makes up for your bad passes some), and had more time than 22 other QBs.

I literally have no expectations. If we keep him Kingsbury better be the god of QB coaching

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

This board gonna be mad as hell if Quinnen/Bosa is the pick & that’s hilarious even typing out 3 months ago.

Not Me

 

[Dr. Jones]

Holy crap every time I go down this rabbit hole he just sucks more

Dont even get me started..... You are living through my January.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Skelton was a joke, not even in the same galaxy as Josh Rosen lol.

Speaking of injecting stats.....

Skelton had a 54% comp percentage the two years he really played.

Lets do a little comparison:

Rosen 393 attempts. 55.2% comp percentage
Skelton 476 attempts. 54.6% comp percentage
Rosen: 13 games started: 3-10 record.
Skelton: 13 games started: 6-7 record

Skelton: 13 TD's 23 INT's
Rosen: 11 TD's 14 INT's.
Skelton: 3000 yards
Rosen: 2280 yards.
Yards per completion:
Rosen 10.5
Skelton: 11.6

QB Rate: 66 for Rosen. 63 for Skelton.


What galaxy? And Why can they not be compared?

 

[TJ]

Skelton was a three-year player who had no room for growth. Plus, he had awful game prep habits

Rosen has < 1 season of starts under sorry coaching. I fail to see the similarities.

Can’t expect rookies to overcome significant obstacles like this. If this were Sam Darnold, we’d be having the same conversation.

If you don’t believe in player development from year 1 to year 2, then go ahead and trade Rosen. But I expect this same conversation to occur next year when Murray struggles as a rookie

 

[Krangodnzr]

Skelton was a three-year player who had no room for growth. Plus, he had awful game prep habits

Rosen has < 1 season of starts under sorry coaching. I fail to see the similarities.

Can’t expect rookies to overcome significant obstacles like this. If this were Sam Darnold, we’d be having the same conversation.

If you don’t believe in player development from year 1 to year 2, then go ahead and trade Rosen. But I expect this same conversation to occur next year when Murray struggles as a rookie

I think Murray is going to be better purely on his elite ability to run for yardage and escape pressure.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Speaking of injecting stats.....

Skelton had a 54% comp percentage the two years he really played.

Lets do a little comparison:

Rosen 393 attempts. 55.2% comp percentage
Skelton 476 attempts. 54.6% comp percentage
Rosen: 13 games started: 3-10 record.
Skelton: 13 games started: 6-7 record

Skelton: 13 TD's 23 INT's
Rosen: 11 TD's 14 INT's.
Skelton: 3000 yards
Rosen: 2280 yards.
Yards per completion:
Rosen 10.5
Skelton: 11.6

QB Rate: 66 for Rosen. 63 for Skelton.


What galaxy? And Why can they not be compared?

Put John Skelton on last yrs team & see how horrible he would've been. He had a way better off line & a competent off coordinator to work with, plus good receivers. Josh Rosen had none of that, JS wasn't very good, every time he went back to pass i cringed, Josh Rosen didn't make me feel like that when he actually had time to pass. Stats may compare but there's a reason JR was a top 10 pick & JS wasn't.

 

[juza76]

Speaking of injecting stats.....

Skelton had a 54% comp percentage the two years he really played.

Lets do a little comparison:

Rosen 393 attempts. 55.2% comp percentage
Skelton 476 attempts. 54.6% comp percentage
Rosen: 13 games started: 3-10 record.
Skelton: 13 games started: 6-7 record

Skelton: 13 TD's 23 INT's
Rosen: 11 TD's 14 INT's.
Skelton: 3000 yards
Rosen: 2280 yards.
Yards per completion:
Rosen 10.5
Skelton: 11.6

QB Rate: 66 for Rosen. 63 for Skelton.


What galaxy? And Why can they not be compared?

Yes skelton was better at the end of the day, did cost us just a 6th rounder

 

[HeHasRosen]

You stat boys make me chuckle. There are so many variables for you guys to base everything on stats. If you can't understand that than you don't understand the game.

Why are you the only ones saying Rosen sucks? Why aren't the experts saying so? Literally the place you pull half your stats from (PFF) still believe in Rosen. Why? Because they understand how to use the analytics to combine with what they see on tape.

If we do trade Rosen for anything less than a top 10 pick, someone's getting a steal.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If we do trade Rosen for anything less than a top 10 pick, someone's getting a steal.

Possibly.

I'd take a 2nd and a 3rd for Rosen. Sunk cost. Take a better football player and move on.

 

[BW52]

You stat boys make me chuckle. There are so many variables for you guys to base everything on stats. If you can't understand that than you don't understand the game.

Why are you the only ones saying Rosen sucks? Why aren't the experts saying so? Literally the place you pull half your stats from (PFF) still believe in Rosen. Why? Because they understand how to use the analytics to combine with what they see on tape.

If we do trade Rosen for anything less than a top 10 pick, someone's getting a steal.

As I stated before anyone making a judgement on Rosen based on last season debacle is got a agenda.

 

[Krangodnzr]

As I stated before anyone making a judgement on Rosen based on last season debacle is got a agenda.

I'm not.

I'm comparing the entirety of Rosen (Cardinals, combine, UCLA, St John Bosco) to the entirety of Kyler Murray.

Kyler Murray is not only a better football player, he's a better quarterback.

 

[BW52]

I'm not.

I'm comparing the entirety of Rosen (Cardinals, combine, UCLA, St John Bosco) to the entirety of Kyler Murray.

Kyler Murray is not only a better football player, he's a better quarterback.

In your opinion. Not mine.We have discussed many times this issue.You aren`t changing your mind and I am not changing mine.

 

[dscher]

In your opinion. Not mine.We have discussed many times this issue.You aren`t changing your mind and I am not changing mine.

This is where we all just agree to disagree and move on...and discuss who we pick after Kyler!

 

[GatorAZ]

Possibly.

I'd take a 2nd and a 3rd for Rosen. Sunk cost. Take a better football player and move on.

That might be the offer right now but draft night teams will be asking themselves if they really want Daniel Jones or Drew Lock over Rosen. The Cards will keep his availability in the dark until things heat up. If they’ve truly decided on Murray then we’ll see which teams call the Cardinals’ bluff on their asking price.

 

[Krangodnzr]

In your opinion. Not mine.We have discussed many times this issue.You aren`t changing your mind and I am not changing mine.

I was referring to the comment that we (Murray advocates) made up our mind about Rosen based on last year.

Objectively, Murray was significantly better than Rosen was in college, so the premise is utter nonsense.

Objectively, Murray is a significantly better athlete, so the premise is utter nonsense.

If you go by any qualifiable number, statistic, or measurable other than height, Kyler Murray is better than Josh Rosen.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That might be the offer right now but draft night teams will be asking themselves if they really want Daniel Jones or Drew Lock over Rosen. The Cards will keep his availability in the dark until things heat up. If they’ve truly decided on Murray then we’ll see which teams call the Cardinals’ bluff on their asking price.

Maybe so. I'm tempering my expectations. None of us truly know what GMs really think about Rosen.

 

[dscher]

I was referring to the comment that we (Murray advocates) made up our mind about Rosen based on last year.

Objectively, Murray was significantly better than Rosen was in college, so the premise is utter nonsense.

Objectively, Murray is a significantly better athlete, so the premise is utter nonsense.

If you go by any qualifiable number, statistic, or measurable other than height, Kyler Murray is better than Josh Rosen.

For me, it's not even about last year and what we saw from Rosen. I think even if we were Rosen and Murray free last year I'd still pick Murray over Rosen. We now just wait and see.

 

[BW52]

I was referring to the comment that we (Murray advocates) made up our mind about Rosen based on last year.

Objectively, Murray was significantly better than Rosen was in college, so the premise is utter nonsense.

Objectively, Murray is a significantly better athlete, so the premise is utter nonsense.

If you go by any qualifiable number, statistic, or measurable other than height, Kyler Murray is better than Josh Rosen.

And when MURRAY even wins a starting job by competition and when he ever plays with a team not loaded with stars and when he ever plays against a top notch defense every week and transcends the NFL then maybe I possibly could be convinced.Until then its speculative hyperbole and bullcrap..

 

[cardncubfan]

Yes skelton was better at the end of the day, did cost us just a 6th rounder

How in the hell is Skelton better than Rosen? The completed 47.6% of his passes & threw 2 td's to 2 picks in his first year. Second year 54.9 % with 11 td's to 14 picks. He also had way better coaching.

http://www.nfl.com/player/johnskelton/497129/careerstats

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Holy crap every time I go down this rabbit hole he just sucks more

Again, those same analytics show two other attributes - his supporting cast on offense was the worst in the league by a good margin, Rosen was making the most aggressive throws of the NFL, probably his way of coping. (and not disagreeing with you, he was bad, just his potential is near impossible to ascertain)

 

[Dr. Jones]

How in the hell is Skelton better than Rosen? The completed 47.6% of his passes & threw 2 td's to 2 picks in his first year. Second year 54.9 % with 11 td's to 14 picks. He also had way better coaching.

http://www.nfl.com/player/johnskelton/497129/careerstats

Not saying he is better. In fact, he is worse.

But they can be compared from JR's 1st year to Skeltons 2nd & 3rd year. Sanders has a great thread on expected improvement from JR.