Kirilenko--"I want to leave the Utah Jazz"

[scoutmasterdave]

Marion + Banks for Kirilenko + Millsap + Giricek. Git 'er done.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Marion will opt next year anyway, we might as well use this chance to dump banks salary and shore up some of our lacking bench. The biggest reason for me is if the atlanta pick ends up at say #14 I could see sarver using that to dump banks. I do not want that to happen because that might just be the end of the nba for me for at least a few years.

 

[playstation]

also understand that as is the case for marion, AK's value goes beyond the numbers. when a player is hesitant to go into the lane because of what AK can do, AK doesn't get a checkmark, but we all know what happened.

this is why i'm not a huge fan of stats. even the fact that marion gets the blocks and steals don't tell the whole story. there isn't a FEAR to go after him. he doesn't alter shots left and right.

this isn't to say marion isn't good, just that imo AK's intangibles supercede Marion's.

but i think i'm back to saying you don't trade marion for AK. you try and get more players or something, but you don't do the basic one for one.

the problem is we know that the current team is probably not winning a title. however, swapping AK for marion is also probably not winning a title (and costing more in the long-run).

i'd be more cool with staying the course with this lineup, and seeing what happens throughout the season, considering jim jackson 3 years ago, tim thomas 2 years ago, jalen rose last year, etc. also considering there's plenty of teams that have way more guys on their roster than they're allowed to keep. Theo Ratliff >>>>> whatever crap we're working out...

who knows, maybe kerr will sign Oakley for cheap!

 

[nashman]

Why do people insist that Marion is going to opt out, seriously? He's gonna leave a good team thats gonna pay him over 17 mil for one season for what exactly?

 

[playstation]

here's a business school style breakdown of why marion would consider leaving:

for more guaranteed money. either take $17M with lots of unknowns right after that, or a 5/$50M deal (at least) instead and bank $33M more (at least) GUARANSHEED.

its basically protection against injury/catastrophe/etc. if he does so and bad stuff happens, it works out GREAT for him. if he does so and he plays to his caliber, he'll end up losing about $7-9M in the long haul in exchange for the "insurance".

when you're choice is a guaranteed $50M or a 90% chance of $59M with a 10% chance of $30M ($17 guaranteed and maybe $13M more as a result of a bad deal post-injury or something), you gotta do some expected value calculations.

even then, you'd have to figure a pretty high chance of falling apart for him to decide to opt out. given that info, unless he secretly HATES the suns JJ style, he's not leaving this year.

what does this mean? He's going to play the best he can this year thinking that if he does somebody is going to give him more than $50M guaranteed (which would make it easy for him to leave). Then when he is told it won't happen, he'll have to stick around and play out of his mind again to get a decent next contract. win-win for phx.

only way this doesn't work is if someone overpays for marion. its happened before for a non-creator (ben wallace last year), but not likely imo.

 

[JCSunsfan]

this AK for Diaw,Banks, filler proposal is interesting if utah really feels pushed.

we don't NEED to trade anyone, they're the one's that are under the gun here. if they're stupid enough to take that, we should push for it.

the extra money wouldn't even matter. its a question of value at that point. if you can get a pound of gold in exchange for a pound of bronze, you do it, and ask questions later.

and don't say it hasn't happened before. tmac for franchise anyone? or shaq for odom? ai for andre miller? VC for crap? when guys want out, their value PLUMMETS.

i've NEVER seen a team trade a guy that wanted out and get better IMMEDIATELY because of it. if they got marion for AK, that is exactly what would happen.

Its too bad we don't have KT. KT and Diaw for AK would have worked. And I think Utah might have taken it.

 

[CaptainInsano]

There will be a team far under the cap and desperate to get into the playoffs that will sign marion to some type of ridiculous huge contract.

There will always be an atlanta type team out there prowling waiting to "steal" someone away by offering them an asinine amount of money that no competing team would dare pay for since they are around or over the LT.

Welcome to the luxury tax nba epoch I guess.

 

[fordronken]

Marion won't opt out in Phoenix. If we trade him to another team, I still highly doubt he would do it, unless he really hated it there. But from what I've read, Marion is very careful with his money. Unless his agent convinced him that he could get a huge contract as a free agent, he'll be staying on for the final year.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Its too bad we don't have KT. KT and Diaw for AK would have worked. And I think Utah might have taken it.

KT and Banks + the 2 first round picks that were used in the KT trade and I would bet utah would surely bite.

Thanks a lot for jumping the gun sarver..

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't see this trade happening for a couple of reasons.

1. Marion is a better fit in our system than AK. As many as would like to be bigger etc, that is not what the coach wants. AK would be a slight downgrade.

2. The financial commitment would be greater. I don't think Sarver wants any part of a long term deal for a gimpy player. He would much rather pay Marion more this season and then let him walk later. That's a $17million savings and those are #s that Sarver loves.

Its just like with KG. The player is great, but the contract is more unattractive than Marion's is.

 

[elindholm]

when you're choice is a guaranteed $50M or a 90% chance of $59M with a 10% chance of $30M ($17 guaranteed and maybe $13M more as a result of a bad deal post-injury or something), you gotta do some expected value calculations.

LOL, yeah, that might be a good idea.

In that scenario, you're talking about $50M versus (0.9 * $59M) + (0.1 * $30M) = $56.1M. Obviously the latter is a better deal. I know that you just made those numbers up, but at least make up ones that support your argument.

Marion's not opting out. You can take that to the bank -- just as he will.

 

[elindholm]

I don't see this trade happening for a couple of reasons.

1. Marion is a better fit in our system than AK. As many as would like to be bigger etc, that is not what the coach wants. AK would be a slight downgrade.

2. The financial commitment would be greater. I don't think Sarver wants any part of a long term deal for a gimpy player. He would much rather pay Marion more this season and then let him walk later. That's a $17million savings and those are #s that Sarver loves.

Unfortunately I think both of those reasons are right on the money. Whether Kirilenko would be a slight downgrade over Marion is debatable, but I think it's clear that D'Antoni believes it would be. And you're also correct that Sarver isn't going to take on two more years of an eight-figure salary.

 

[playstation]

LOL, yeah, that might be a good idea.

In that scenario, you're talking about $50M versus (0.9 * $59M) + (0.1 * $30M) = $56.1M. Obviously the latter is a better deal. I know that you just made those numbers up, but at least make up ones that support your argument.

LOL

if you read the following sentence, you'd see

"even then, you'd have to figure a pretty high chance of falling apart for him to decide to opt out. given that info, unless he secretly HATES the suns JJ style, he's not leaving this year."

so actually, my made up numbers do support my argument. the argument was if he left, it would only be for more guaranteed money, not for a greater expected value.

i know you like to attack people sometimes, but at least make sure your attack makes any sense before posting it...

 

[elindholm]

LOL

if you read the following sentence, you'd see

Actually I read the whole post, but since you argued with equal energy for both sides of the question, I couldn't figure out what your stance was. Apparently I guessed wrong, but it was a coin flip.

 

[fordronken]

KT and Banks + the 2 first round picks that were used in the KT trade and I would bet utah would surely bite.

Thanks a lot for jumping the gun sarver..

That's financial suicide. No chance in hell that would have happened.

 

[CaptainInsano]

That's financial suicide. No chance in hell that would have happened.

From the jazz standpoint they get 8 million expiring and 2 draft picks but have to take on a not very large banks contract (and he would probably do well in a half court jazz style) only for giving AK who doesn't want to play there anyway.

I don't think there would be a single reason for them NOT to do it. They are just giving up AK and he wants to leave anyway. 2 first round draft picks and 8 million expiring?

From the suns standpoint they give up 8 million for KT and 4 million for banks = about 12 million for AK's current salary of about 14 million.

If sarver is THAT cheap that he wouldn't do that deal (since ak's salary gets larger every year for a long time) then I wouldn't even be able to watch the suns anymore.

 

[cly2tw]

I think AK will be NBA champion next year, with the Suns!

 

[playstation]

If sarver is THAT cheap that he wouldn't do that deal (since ak's salary gets larger every year for a long time) then I wouldn't even be able to watch the suns anymore.

then you better stop watching the suns

dude, there is NO WAY sarver would do that deal. hell, i wouldn't even do that deal. you're talking about guaranteed over the lux tax cap by A LOT for many years.

with a $10M hit next year on the lux tax, you've effectively doubled AK's salary to over $20M. On top of that you get no rebates, on top of that you still have marion, amare, and nash, AND diaw making big bucks for a while. you'd be in lux tax territory with those 5 guys alone! thats not even counting barbosa or bell or anyone else!

financial suicide.

 

[CaptainInsano]

then you better stop watching the suns

dude, there is NO WAY sarver would do that deal. hell, i wouldn't even do that deal. you're talking about guaranteed over the lux tax cap by A LOT for many years.

with a $10M hit next year on the lux tax, you've effectively doubled AK's salary to over $20M. On top of that you get no rebates, on top of that you still have marion, amare, and nash, AND diaw making big bucks for a while. you'd be in lux tax territory with those 5 guys alone! thats not even counting barbosa or bell or anyone else!

financial suicide.

I am of the belief that marion would opt on the 17 million year, but even if he didn't that would mean that for just that one particular year we would be far in the LT, but then with marion gone the year after that is 17 million off the books of which AK's salary wouldn't be that large yet.

Financial suicide for maybe one year, of course most owners would do it but we do know sarver wouldn't.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Rumor now is AK has another blog saying he wants to go back to Russia.

http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=711877&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Utah's so crappy it makes Russians homesick!
OH burn!

 

[F-Dog]

http://http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3029816

Report: Kirilenko 'ready' to leave NBA, $63M contract
ESPN.com news services

Andrei Kirilenko is so prepared to leave the Utah Jazz, he's willing to forsake the remaining $63 million of his contract to play overseas.

According to a translation by The Salt Lake Tribune, Kirilenko said in an interview with the Russian newspaper Sport Express that he is prepared to go without the money remaining on his NBA contract to get away from the Jazz.

According to the Tribune, Kirilenko is quoted in the Russian newspaper as saying: "I just want to explain to everybody what I think and feel and that I could sacrifice my career with the NBA. The only thing I'm not prepared for is if I'm told, 'Andrei, we want you to stay anyway.' I'm sure then the next season would be a repetition of the previous one, and what will the fans say then? How could you possibly rely on a player who wants to leave?"

Kirilenko, who is under contract through the 2010-11 season, told Sport Express he thinks the chances of his contract being voided are small. But he remains steadfast in his desire to leave Utah, even if it means playing on a worse team, NBA or otherwise.

"I have never been unfair and I don't want to enjoy something that I don't deserve," Kirilenko told Sport Express. "Big money is obviously good, but I am prepared to make less. The size of my salary doesn't mean that much for me. The main thing is to play with a spark."

He says he would like to play in Russia, although as long as he is under contract with Utah, that cannot happen as NBA and FIBA teams must honor each other's contracts. Kirilenko starred for CSKA Moscow in the Euroleague before coming to the NBA, but he says he'd also consider other European teams.

"I would like to be where I am needed and right now I feel that my country needs me," Kirilenko told Sport Express. "But I cannot exclude some European clubs. Trust me, I really am prepared to leave NBA. It certainly does not mean that I'm dying to go to Europe. I'm just ready."

Kirilenko could face a fine or suspension by the Jazz if he fails to report to camp on Oct. 1.

He contrasted his displeasure with Jazz coach Jerry Sloan with the experience he had with Russian coach David Blatt during the recent European Basketball Tournament. Russia won the tournament and Kirilenko was named MVP.

"Last year, we had a conversation with him," Kirilenko told Sport Express "and Sloan said, 'Andrei, if you don't like something about the way I conduct training you could always break the contract with the Jazz.' So that's exactly what I want to do now!"

Kirilenko doesn't want to lose another year or two playing for Sloan and told Sport Express he talked with Jazz owner Larry Miller while he was in Spain for the European Basketball Tournament.

"It seems like Larry understood me," Kirilenko said. "But he will make the final decision himself, obviously."

 

[elindholm]

If I were Kirilenko, I'd have to consider using the annual freebie my wife grants me. I think it could help him feel better.

 

[F-Dog]

If I were Kirilenko, I'd have to consider using the annual freebie my wife grants me. I think it could help him feel better.

Yeah, I don't think Masha expected them to be moving back to Russia when she said that.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

If AK is content on a dedicated, easy practice, high intensity team I totally think we should pull a diaw/banks/Bell for AK+Brewer

Utah gets a true role-player who doesnt care how small his role is, can play SF along okur and boozer, and their old SG which could finally perfect their lineup.

Williams
Bell
Diaw
Boozer
Okur

Nash/Barbosa/DJ
Hill/Brewer
Marion/Tucker
AK/(Batista)
Amare/(Skinner)

Worth it?

 

[JoRain]

I just read the original interview - in Russian (http://news.sport-express.ru/online/ntext/20/nl203917.html). I translated some of the most interesting qutes ! don't really know if all of this interview was in US media. So here it goes - hope someone will find it useful.

At start talks a lot about European Championship and how much he likes to play under David Blatt.

Talks about Jerry Sloan:
- His main method of motivation is to develop a sence of guilt in player. You earn millions ! you're in debt ! And these methods work on a players, thay worked on me...first five seasons. But then was a break. You can't be down all the time - you have to smile and have fun sometimes too.
- I never had problems with Sloan as a person. But I'm not capable normally work with him. I like methods of coach David Blatt (Russian internatioal team's coach) 100 times better.

About possible transfer:
- My target is not a tranfer. I don't want to be a part of the system.
- With all that it is not necessary that somewhere the grass is greener. Organisation of NBA clubs are almost the same. Same situation can happen in any other team.

Then he talks how much he loves Salt lake city (said that part of him became Mormon)...I like the way of life in Salt Lake city. But to play that jibd of basketball is just impossible. Last two years i came on to the floor and acted like a robot. I'm not having fun form the game even in the good games. That feeling is the most disgustung. By the way - my late injuries - all were the result of my moral state. With time i understood that all this is wrong - I WANT TO LEAVE - ANYWHERE. Just leave.

Reporter asks - Can the fact that you become MVP of European championship somehow affect your situation at Utah ?

Answer - No. After the season we had a meeting. And Sloan told me what the future would be for me. He said - "Andrei, you think that in the next season something will change ? Forget it, we're gonna play the same way."

Then he talks about that salary doesn't matter for him that much. The important thing is to play with the "spark" and have fun. It's important that people around me in the team would understand wach other.

Then reporter directly asks - Is your wish to leave directly connected to the wish to play the "first violin" in the team ?

Answer - Absolutely not. I'm not a sniper. I have a very good relationship with all the polayer in Utah. We are good frends off the court as well. But i want to play with positive emotions and to feel that i am helping the team. Last one and a half seasons i haven't felt that.

About staying in Utah:
- I can't see anything good in that. There is no reason for me to stay. It's just going to be the same as this year. Episode 2. I can't progress in this club anymore.

He says that the chance that club will help him accomodate his wishes is very small and that he is ready to sacrifice his NBA career.
Also says that he doesn't believe that any other player of his stature has not been in the similar situation.

He's then asked - for which club he would like to play:

- i don't care. I will be happy with anything. Just to get away form Utah. It can be weak team with bad players - i don't care.

Says tha only thing that can keep him in NBA is dream to win a championship.

Then says that he would like to play in Russia again. Feels that his country need him and that he is really ready to leave NBA.