Kirwan ranks the corners in this year's draft

[bg7brd]

Here is a profile of Patrick Lee from Scott Wright at nfldraftcountdown

Height: 6-0 | Weight: 200 | 40-Time: 4.42

Official Bio

Strengths:
A great natural athlete...Very good size and bulk...Excellent timed speed...Tough and strong...Plays a physical brand of football...Terrific special teamer...Good ball skills...Has fluid hips to turn and run vertically...Hasn't maxed out his potential yet.

Weaknesses:
Limited starting experience...Hands are questionable...Has not played a ton of off coverage...A little inconsistent...Wasn't overly productive...May have some trouble mastering the complexities of a pro defense early on...Has minor durability issues.

Notes:
Didn't start until his senior year but made the most of the opportunity...Dealt with a nagging knee injury as a junior...A fast rising prospect with all the physical tools that you look for...Will also be an extremely valuable asset on special teams...May emerge as one of the top seniors available at his position...An intriguing prospect.

 

[Skkorpion]

Grrr. This groupthink strengths/weaknesses approach the sheep take to cover their asses drives me nuts.

Tell me this. Can the guy play CB or can he not.

 

[WildBB]

Grrr. This groupthink strengths/weaknesses approach the sheep take to cover their asses drives me nuts.

Tell me this. Can the guy play CB or can he not.

Sometimes, sometimes not.

 

[bg7brd]

I think the only 2 real locks on corner in this draft are McKelvin and Cason. Most people say that Cason is better suited for cover 2 so that leaves us McKelvin. If he's there at 16 I'm sure we take him if not I'm thinking we'll go RB. There will be plenty of options at 50.

 

[DaisyCutter]

What do you mean he has never converted it to production on the football field. King and DRC have almost identical production. But King did it in a much better confrence against much better talent. Considering King has only actually concentrated at CB for two season (was a WR recruit his first season) I think he has done more then a solid job of "learning on the job" and still producing.

Also underachievers do not graduate Penn State in just 3 years. That is why he came out early, he already graduated, no more need to stay at school.

You look at the reports and tell me. From everything that I've heard, King hasn't improved as a cornerback through his first two seasons at the position. Despite possessing tremendous physical abilities, he hasn't converted it onto the football field. He gets destroyed by WRs that he shouldn't, and he gets down on himself when he loses battles in games.

DRC showed up on the biggest stage at the Senior Bowl. I mean the workouts, not the game. Some guys just need to be challenged in order to bring out the best in themselves. Maybe that's the case with DRC.

Everything I've seen notes brings Justin King's passion for football into question. Wendell Bryant was a great student-athlete in the classroom, as well. He had good measurables. But I wouldn't want him on this team.

 

[Lefty]

Cason was on the news last week and he says the Cowboys are very interested in him with one of their two first-round picks.

 

[anks106]

What do you mean he has never converted it to production on the football field. King and DRC have almost identical production. But King did it in a much better confrence against much better talent. Considering King has only actually concentrated at CB for two season (was a WR recruit his first season) I think he has done more then a solid job of "learning on the job" and still producing.

Also underachievers do not graduate Penn State in just 3 years. That is why he came out early, he already graduated, no more need to stay at school.

I've said it b4 and I'll say it again, DRC did not have tons of interceptions but as far as keeping the ball out of the wide receivers hands, there was no one btter. To say King and DRC have almost identical production is just not true. DRC kept the ball out of hte opponents hands and kept opponents from moving downfield.

As a soph he allowed 1.86 ypa (lowest Divison 1-AA since 1990, when some guy named Aeneas Williams had a 1.99)
As a junior he picked off 6 and allowed 3.64 ypa. (YPA led Division 1-AA)
As a senior, he blocked 4 punts.

He allowed 3.85 ypa during his career.
Opponents completion percentage during his career was under 35%

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Tracy Porter as a 4th round projection. Where do we sign up to get him in round 4? What a steal that would be.

 

[joeshmo]

I've said it b4 and I'll say it again, DRC did not have tons of interceptions but as far as keeping the ball out of the wide receivers hands, there was no one btter. To say King and DRC have almost identical production is just not true. DRC kept the ball out of hte opponents hands and kept opponents from moving downfield.

As a soph he allowed 1.86 ypa (lowest Divison 1-AA since 1990, when some guy named Aeneas Williams had a 1.99)
As a junior he picked off 6 and allowed 3.64 ypa. (YPA led Division 1-AA)
As a senior, he blocked 4 punts.

He allowed 3.85 ypa during his career.
Opponents completion percentage during his career was under 35%

You give King the same amount of experiance at CB (King only has 2 years of experiance at CB compared to DRC's 4 years) and in as crappy a confrence as DRC and he gets similar numbers. You have to take into acount that 99.9% of the players the DRC faced will never even get a sniff of the NFL, not even as UDFA's. Its in the tape and the tape I have seen of DRC color me not impressed. I saw absolutley zero technique and he even didnt run as hard against some opponents because he knew he could make up the gap pretty easily with his speed compared to that of the guy he was faced against.

DRC one this years beauty contest but the draft isnt about the beauty contest that is the offseason hype machine of workouts.

One of the best talent evaluators in the late great Joel Buschbaum said that his board was all but set right after the national championship game and rarely changed his talent board after that becuase he didnt want to get caught up in or persuaded by the beauty contests of offseason workouts. He would rather evaluate football players not dudes walking down a runway showing off their muscles. DRC walked the runway with the best of them, because no one was mentioning DRC as a 1st rounder until after the games ended and not actually when he was playing them. The guys that were highly rated in Late January are usually more likely to do well in the NFL then the late risers of March and April.

 

[Mitch]

You give King the same amount of experiance at CB (King only has 2 years of experiance at CB compared to DRC's 4 years) and in as crappy a confrence as DRC and he gets similar numbers. You have to take into acount that 99.9% of the players the DRC faced will never even get a sniff of the NFL, not even as UDFA's. Its in the tape and the tape I have seen of DRC color me not impressed. I saw absolutley zero technique and he even didnt run as hard against some opponents because he knew he could make up the gap pretty easily with his speed compared to that of the guy he was faced against.

DRC one this years beauty contest but the draft isnt about the beauty contest that is the offseason hype machine of workouts.

One of the best talent evaluators in the late great Joel Buschbaum said that his board was all but set right after the national championship game and rarely changed his talent board after that becuase he didnt want to get caught up in or persuaded by the beauty contests of offseason workouts. He would rather evaluate football players not dudes walking down a runway showing off their muscles. DRC walked the runway with the best of them, because no one was mentioning DRC as a 1st rounder until after the games ended and not actually when he was playing them. The guys that were highly rated in Late January are usually more likely to do well in the NFL then the late risers of March and April.

Joe is absolutely right...as was Buschbaum...what any team realy needs to know about the top prospects, or any prospects for that matter: (1) the player's skill set and how it projects to the NFL; (2) performance versus top competition; (3) work ethic; (4) leadership; (5) coachability; (6) potential red flags---from medical to character issues.

Most of the prospects have talent...but not many of them are mature enough, nor are they coachable enough (which, even though I listed coachability as #5, it may be number one) to make immediate impacts. These days teams can no longer wait as long as they used to for a player to develop. Right away a draft picks needs to be able to contribute on special teams at the very least, or be a respectable backup in case the starter gets hurt or needs an occasional breather.

If a draft pick is unable to contribute to special teams and is not good enough to play if the starter gets hurt or needs a breather, that player is basically dead weight on the roster...which is why, for example, the Cards felt they had to release Buster Davis, who was essentially being way outplayed by a UCFA, Pago Tagafau. Even Tagafau didn't make it, because, even though he showed fairly good special teams ability, he would have been a mere third on the depth chart behind Gerald Hayes and Monty Beisel.

 

[Stout]

You give King the same amount of experiance at CB (King only has 2 years of experiance at CB compared to DRC's 4 years) and in as crappy a confrence as DRC and he gets similar numbers. You have to take into acount that 99.9% of the players the DRC faced will never even get a sniff of the NFL, not even as UDFA's. Its in the tape and the tape I have seen of DRC color me not impressed. I saw absolutley zero technique and he even didnt run as hard against some opponents because he knew he could make up the gap pretty easily with his speed compared to that of the guy he was faced against.

DRC one this years beauty contest but the draft isnt about the beauty contest that is the offseason hype machine of workouts.

One of the best talent evaluators in the late great Joel Buschbaum said that his board was all but set right after the national championship game and rarely changed his talent board after that becuase he didnt want to get caught up in or persuaded by the beauty contests of offseason workouts. He would rather evaluate football players not dudes walking down a runway showing off their muscles. DRC walked the runway with the best of them, because no one was mentioning DRC as a 1st rounder until after the games ended and not actually when he was playing them. The guys that were highly rated in Late January are usually more likely to do well in the NFL then the late risers of March and April.

Well said, Joe. I agree, and not just because you're defending a Penn State player.

 

[DaisyCutter]

You give King the same amount of experiance at CB (King only has 2 years of experiance at CB compared to DRC's 4 years) and in as crappy a confrence as DRC and he gets similar numbers. You have to take into acount that 99.9% of the players the DRC faced will never even get a sniff of the NFL, not even as UDFA's. Its in the tape and the tape I have seen of DRC color me not impressed. I saw absolutley zero technique and he even didnt run as hard against some opponents because he knew he could make up the gap pretty easily with his speed compared to that of the guy he was faced against.

DRC one this years beauty contest but the draft isnt about the beauty contest that is the offseason hype machine of workouts.

One of the best talent evaluators in the late great Joel Buschbaum said that his board was all but set right after the national championship game and rarely changed his talent board after that becuase he didnt want to get caught up in or persuaded by the beauty contests of offseason workouts. He would rather evaluate football players not dudes walking down a runway showing off their muscles. DRC walked the runway with the best of them, because no one was mentioning DRC as a 1st rounder until after the games ended and not actually when he was playing them. The guys that were highly rated in Late January are usually more likely to do well in the NFL then the late risers of March and April.

So you think that NFL talent evaluators were watching a lot of Tennessee State games last year? Maybe he was already on their radars, but DRC didn't come into the national spotlight until he played his first game against top competition: In the Senior Bowl.

I totally agree with you on the late risers of March and April, but DRC exploded onto the scene in February, while playing in pads, against the top competition in the nation.

 

[anks106]

You give King the same amount of experiance at CB (King only has 2 years of experiance at CB compared to DRC's 4 years) and in as crappy a confrence as DRC and he gets similar numbers. You have to take into acount that 99.9% of the players the DRC faced will never even get a sniff of the NFL, not even as UDFA's. Its in the tape and the tape I have seen of DRC color me not impressed. I saw absolutley zero technique and he even didnt run as hard against some opponents because he knew he could make up the gap pretty easily with his speed compared to that of the guy he was faced against.

DRC one this years beauty contest but the draft isnt about the beauty contest that is the offseason hype machine of workouts.

One of the best talent evaluators in the late great Joel Buschbaum said that his board was all but set right after the national championship game and rarely changed his talent board after that becuase he didnt want to get caught up in or persuaded by the beauty contests of offseason workouts. He would rather evaluate football players not dudes walking down a runway showing off their muscles. DRC walked the runway with the best of them, because no one was mentioning DRC as a 1st rounder until after the games ended and not actually when he was playing them. The guys that were highly rated in Late January are usually more likely to do well in the NFL then the late risers of March and April.

I was just trying to correct the belief some have that DRC couldn't handle the competition in 1-AA. You stated he and King had similar production but King did it at a better conference. If you stated that King might have been even better than DRC facing his competition that is fine, but you took conference out of the picture and said they were similar in production which is not true.