Knicks made Amar'e available "for free"

[Phrazbit]

Amar'e, with his declining basketball health, no-D and propensity to collect fouls, would just be a compromise at PF, as are Scola and Morris.

The question is . . . would he be the go-to shooter we desperately need and, if so, would he be on the floor for the last six minutes of just about every game for the rest of the season?

This season is lost. In recent years its taken 46-50 wins or more to make the playoffs in the west even as an 8 seed. To get to that minimum number the Suns would have to go 35-18 the rest of the way. Its not happening. And last time Amare was on the court he was as close to being a "go-to" guy as Luis Scola is... and that was before he hurt his knees again.

I think this is going to be a really sad year for Amare Stoudemire. No one is going to take that contract from New York and I anticipate he will make the Knicks worse when he returns, resulting in him playing a very minimal role for the remainder of the year. I wouldnt be too surprised if his return is ugly enough that they just toss him in the trainers room and tell him to try and get ready for next year.

 

[JS22]

I don't think sentiment has anything to do with why some of us (here) might want to do this. I'm only interested in the possibility of moving some bad contracts and acquiring draft picks. I can live with the horrible contract we get back in return if it nets us some good players eventually.

Steve

This.

It's not like the Suns will be attracting any premier FA's in the next few years. So the contract really isn't a disaster IF it could also land you a few more picks plus a guy like Shumpert.

Hell, a mostly-healthy Amare would be the best player on this roster anyway.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This.

It's not like the Suns will be attracting any premier FA's in the next few years. So the contract really isn't a disaster IF it could also land you a few more picks plus a guy like Shumpert.

Hell, a mostly-healthy Amare would be the best player on this roster anyway.

I'm not sure he'd be the best player on the roster but he'd be the best shooter and if we could get him for Beasley, Johnson and a pick - I'd jump at it. I find myself liking the idea the more I think about it. There's a slim chance that our staff could work more wonders with him and if that fails, we're one of the very few teams that really wouldn't be all that hurt by his absence. He'd make us better but he wouldn't make us good so what's the big deal if he's out more often than not. Along with this deal, I think I'd also look to ship off a couple of our picks this season for more picks next year and the following if we can find takers.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

I'm not sure he'd be the best player on the roster but he'd be the best shooter and if we could get him for Beasley, Johnson and a pick - I'd jump at it.

The Suns would have to include about $8 million more in salary for the numbers to work out, and it's not clear who that would be. And I think that taking on Stoudemire is too high a price just to be rid of Beasley. If it comes to that, waive Beasley and eat his contract; the Suns would still be tens of millions of dollars ahead of the Stoudemire scenario.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns would have to include about $8 million more in salary for the numbers to work out, and it's not clear who that would be. And I think that taking on Stoudemire is too high a price just to be rid of Beasley. If it comes to that, waive Beasley and eat his contract; the Suns would still be tens of millions of dollars ahead of the Stoudemire scenario.

I'm surprised by that number. I guess I just didn't realize what was going on with the amnestied players. I thought the Childress money came off the cap which should have left us in position to absorb Amare's salary.

Steve

 

[SunsTzu]

I'm surprised by that number. I guess I just didn't realize what was going on with the amnestied players. I thought the Childress money came off the cap which should have left us in position to absorb Amare's salary.

Steve

It does come off the cap but the Suns would still need to add 3mil to make up the difference in space available. Regardless it's a terrible move for the Suns. Not only is Amare making 20mil per but his contract isn't insured.

Better to run the clock on Beasley's deal, or if they get real desperate they can just waive him in the offseason and use the stretch provision if they want some extra cap space.

 

[hcsilla]

I just can't believe that Stoudemire's return to the Suns is under discussion on this board.

The guy gets 20 mil. this year, 21.5 mil. next year and 23.5 a year after.

I can't really imagine a worse scenario than spending the Suns actual and future cap flexibility on him.

Trading Beasley, Johnson and Frye for him would be one of the worst moves ever even if the Knicks add Shumpert and a 1st rounder to the deal.

 

[elindholm]

It does come off the cap but the Suns would still need to add 3mil to make up the difference in space available.

Yep, looks like I forgot about the Childress issue. The number should be between $3 and $4 million, depending on minimum cap holds and other minutia I can never keep track of. But in any case, as hcsilla says, it's a lousy idea regardless.

 

[asudevil83]

I'm not sure he'd be the best player on the roster but he'd be the best shooter and if we could get him for Beasley, Johnson and a pick - I'd jump at it.

Steve

I'm only interested in the possibility of moving some bad contracts and acquiring draft picks.

Steve

how can you blatantly contradict yourself?

the idea of moving beasley is great. whatever. i just dont see the logic in justifying 2/$12mil for 3/$60mil, while giving up an expiring and a pick in the process.

and you talked about the suns medical staff being able to resurrect his career. this was the SAME staff who strongly advised for the suns not to give him anything more than a 3 year deal. and now, in year 3, he looks DONE.

and this business about it not hurting the suns? how does losing 1/3 of your cap not hurt a team. the cap isnt about signing players....its about making trades. and risking it on a, and i quote, "slim chance" of repairing him is foolish.

IF the suns were to make a trade for Amare, and i think the odds are close to nill....it would be the epitome of penny wise, pound foolish. it would be worse than signing Marcus Banks, worse than signing Childress, worse than signing Beasley, worse that just about EVERY signing sarver has made combined.

do you honestly ever see Amare being worth his contract? if no, they why would you sacrifice 3 years to watch it not work out? and if yes, where would it get us?

 

[AzStevenCal]

how can you blatantly contradict yourself?

the idea of moving beasley is great. whatever. i just dont see the logic in justifying 2/$12mil for 3/$60mil, while giving up an expiring and a pick in the process.

and you talked about the suns medical staff being able to resurrect his career. this was the SAME staff who strongly advised for the suns not to give him anything more than a 3 year deal. and now, in year 3, he looks DONE.

and this business about it not hurting the suns? how does losing 1/3 of your cap not hurt a team. the cap isnt about signing players....its about making trades. and risking it on a, and i quote, "slim chance" of repairing him is foolish.

IF the suns were to make a trade for Amare, and i think the odds are close to nill....it would be the epitome of penny wise, pound foolish. it would be worse than signing Marcus Banks, worse than signing Childress, worse than signing Beasley, worse that just about EVERY signing sarver has made combined.

do you honestly ever see Amare being worth his contract? if no, they why would you sacrifice 3 years to watch it not work out? and if yes, where would it get us?

Oh geez, like that's the first time! I'm happy if I get all the way through a post without contradicting myself. It's the curse that comes from seeing everything in shades of gray.

I really did start out thinking that I was only interested in doing it for the reason I stated but the more I started reflecting on the current Suns team the more my position shifted. I have no clue what this team should do but it's apparent they should do something.

I don't see how bringing Amare back really hurts us (assuming our training/medical staff has interest in it). We're not going to be using the money any time soon and it could rid us of a cancer and perhaps make the team more watchable. I do realize that's a gigantic "perhaps" but this team is pretty bad and has yet to bottom out. They swung blindly for the fences and struck out when they signed Beasley so I figure why not take a big swing again. There's some faulty logic at play there but I'm a fan not a genius.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't see how bringing Amare back really hurts us (assuming our training/medical staff has interest in it). We're not going to be using the money any time soon and it could rid us of a cancer and perhaps make the team more watchable. I do realize that's a gigantic "perhaps" but this team is pretty bad and has yet to bottom out. They swung blindly for the fences and struck out when they signed Beasley so I figure why not take a big swing again. There's some faulty logic at play there but I'm a fan not a genius.

Steve

Sometimes when one digs a hole they should just quit digging before they get deeper.

All I know the Suns are very bad at making player personnel decisions. I've lost confidence in the Suns FO, in particular Blanks.

 

[SunsTzu]

I have no clue what this team should do but it's apparent they should do something.

Moves made out of desperation rarely work out. It's better to remain patient and acquire prospects/assets then make big moves from a position of strength.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sometimes when one digs a hole they should just quit digging before they get deeper.

Moves made out of desperation rarely work out. It's better to remain patient and acquire prospects/assets then make big moves from a position of strength.

Fair points, unassailable by logic. If I had confidence in the Suns front office to stand pat and let this play out, I'd heartily agree with you. But, I think these guys are going to go shopping for the perceived missing piece. If this team had started the season with an average NBA starter at the shooting guard spot and no Michael Beasley, they'd be a playoff contender. I'm afraid the front office might still be believe the playoffs are in reach and will send picks to get that piece.

I'd rather add Amare even with his bloated contract and hopefully gain a pick or two than pursue the playoffs at the expense of a couple of our first round picks. I just don't see the need for that cap space over the length of Amare's remaining contract. We are more than a couple years away IMO.

Steve

 

[SunsTzu]

But, I think these guys are going to go shopping for the perceived missing piece.

To their credit they stayed relatively patient the past 2 years. After Gordon was matched they merely gave Brown essentially a 1 year contract instead of pursuing any of the other SG on a long term deal.

More to the point it's unlikely "these" guys will be around. Babby and Blanks both have expiring contracts and whose ever been in charge of talent evaluation is unlikely to return.

Regardless I don't agree with the reasoning of making a dumb short sighted move to preempt a dumb short sighted move you fear the team may make in the offseason.

 

[AzStevenCal]

To their credit they stayed relatively patient the past 2 years. After Gordon was matched they merely gave Brown essentially a 1 year contract instead of pursuing any of the other SG on a long term deal.

More to the point it's unlikely "these" guys will be around. Babby and Blanks both have expiring contracts and whose ever been in charge of talent evaluation is unlikely to return.

Regardless I don't agree with the reasoning of making a dumb short sighted move to preempt a dumb short sighted move you fear the team may make in the offseason.

I thought about what I wrote and then raced back to the keyboard to retract my statement, too late, unfortunately. You're correct, my reasoning led me into Stupid Land. It would make no sense to hope for your team to make a bad move simply to reduce the likelihood they make an even worse move.

Steve

 

[Errntknght]

Regardless I don't agree with the reasoning of making a dumb short sighted move to preempt a dumb short sighted move you fear the team may make in the offseason.

Heck, it would ruin all the guessing and discussion about exactly how they will screw up, too. I'm sure some people are thinking why not just get it over with but I prefer the suspense...

 

[BC867]

If this team had started the season with an average NBA starter at the shooting guard spot and no Michael Beasley, they'd be a playoff contender.

I must disagree with you there, Steve. We need a very good Wing at the "2" or "3". The proverbial go-to guy with the game on the line.

Average results in well, average -- ya win some, ya lose some and ya finish .500.

The second part of your equation, Beasley (as bad as he is) lost his starting job, then even had a DNP. And still, we've lost more close games right to the present time than any other team in the NBA per Steve Albert (who reads well, even though at announcing, well, he is a Beasley).

I don't blame you at grasping for straws. It is frustrating for all of us. Unfortunately, the FO seems to be grasping, too.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I must disagree with you there, Steve. We need a very good Wing at the "2" or "3". The proverbial go-to guy with the game on the line.

Average results in well, average -- ya win some, ya lose some and ya finish .500.

The second part of your equation, Beasley (as bad as he is) lost his starting job, then even had a DNP. And still, we've lost more close games right to the present time than any other team in the NBA per Steve Albert (who reads well, even though at announcing, well, he is a Beasley).

I don't blame you at grasping for straws. It is frustrating for all of us. Unfortunately, the FO seems to be grasping, too.

Right now we are going through a stretch where we are facing teams that are better than us so it's no surprise we are struggling. Earlier in the season we had a very easy schedule and lost a lot of games that we really should have won. That takes it's toll on your confidence and it saps your energy level. Dump Beasley and replace him with an NBA starter and I believe we'd be in a much different position today. At this point, I don't think it matters much. Even if we replaced him with a star I think we'd be doomed to finish at or near the bottom of the conference.

I think a full season without Beasley along with a very good shooting guard puts us solidly in the playoffs but an average shooter puts us in the playoff hunt. Having to start Brown has really impacted both the starting unit and the second team. He can be such a weapon when given a free rein but it's hard to count on him every night. Also, he's a ball stopper and pretty much destroys the flow of offense, something the second team could perhaps benefit from but you can't go the majority of minutes that way as we've been forced to.

Steve

 

[95pro]

More surgery for amare...

 

[wagon mound 464]

More surgery for amare...

Amare needs more than the Suns medical/training staff,,,,I just hope he has an excellent financial advi$or

 

[BC867]

Here is part of one of the reports. Amar'e has been a DNP waiting to happen. It is surprising that there was no advance warning.

Amare Stoudemire needs surgery on his right knee and is expected to miss six weeks, a stunning blow to the New York Knicks as they chase the Atlantic Division title.

Stoudemire, who had been playing well off the bench, will have the procedure to remove tissue within the week, the Knicks said Saturday before their game against the Utah Jazz.

Stoudemire missed the first 30 games after having the same surgery, called a debridement, on his left knee during the preseason. He returned on New Year's Day and has averaged 14.2 points in 29 games as a reserve.

''I feel for the young man because he put so much time and hard work in, but we've got to go on,'' Knicks coach Mike Woodson said. The Knicks were also without Carmelo Anthony, sitting out his third straight game with a sore and stiff right knee.

But the Stoudemire news was a surprise, since there was no indication there had been any problem with his surgically repaired knees until Saturday morning.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/knicks-may-without-anthony-stoudemire-170628404--nba.html